Two_Cents 0 Report post Posted February 14, 2012 I would like to start by saying I feel sorry for Nick Smart (113), Sam Griffith (126), Cristian Sales (138), and Mason Ray (145). Each is in a 4 man pod where the other 3 are in Rangers Top 11. Good luck to you guys. If Ranks were to hold (and we know they don't) the toughest competition that Garth Yenter has to get to the finals is the kid that finished 4th in his own region. Congratulations to Keegan Duncan for winning his region. As a gift you get the 7th ranked kid. Both 170 and 182 have the top 3 ranked kids on the same side (LaRue has a kid in both). For Canter, Maupin, Ray, or Gnadinger to win they could very well have to face 3 top 5 kids. There are 5 first round matchups between top 10 ranked kids. There are 3 first round matchups between kids in the top 4 teams although I only think one has the potential to be close (Blackwell/Mouser, West/Fausz, Strickrod/Morris) Again for the sake of a starting point if ranks were to hold the team score without bonus points would be LaRue 144, Campbell 134, Union 126, and Trinity 115. Obviously Bonus points will play a big factor like they always do but as mentioned on other posts a potential Newberry/Myers match could be a much bigger match than just an individual one. Good luck Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dagger 7 Report post Posted February 14, 2012 Don't forget about the 113lb bracket, Campbell County Sparh (sp) place 2nd and what does he get for doing that, a first round match with the third ranked wrestler at 113 Chase Boone from Ohio County. Talk about a bad draw. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KYgrappler 4 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 They should seed the region champs. That's it. If you didn't win your region you get what you get. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ThirdRound 32 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 They should seed the region champs. That's it. If you didn't win your region you get what you get. Region Champs are spread out to face 4 seeds.....You have to take it a step further in order to get proper seeding. Records...Common opponents ect. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jacketcoach 19 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 You missed the 160lb bracket. It should be a whole lot of fun up top. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
userdaddy 0 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 Just keep top 2 away from each other and that's a good start Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KYgrappler 4 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 Therein lies the problem, userdaddy. Determining top 2 isnt easy for all classes. Go ahead and do top 8 but if you didn't win your region you can't be considered. If you seed the region champs but still make them face 4's and 2 vs 3's you've made a huge improvement. In that system you can still have region champs meeting in the quarters (that is unavoidable in a 32 man bracket) but at least its not #1 ranked kid who won his region vs the #2 ranked kid who won his region in the quarters. And of course there is a chance where the #2 or #3 ranked kid didn't win his region. Tough cookies. Only region champs deserve the luxury of being seeded and given a fair shake at making quarters without facing a top ranked kid. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EMS Coach Cardwell 17 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 Impossible to seed the State Tournament. No matter how you do it, it still comes down to opinions and agendas. No matter what, the best kid on that day will win, regaurdless of who he may have to beat to get there. In theory, seeding the State Tournament sounds great, but I don't see a truly fair way to do it. What if the 2 top kids are out of the same Region, do you still have an arguement for seeding the 2nd kid, or do you simply say, oh well, he should have been a Region Champ, throw him in with the wolves. Imho, you have to beat the best to be the best, either way, you gotta go 5 and 0 to win it. I will even admit that I enjoy the semi finals more than the finals most of the time. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeus 117 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 D.W., I disagree, I have proposed KYgrappler's idea before. Think about it, just because you seed the region champs doesn't mean you will be seeding the top 8 wrestlers at a given weight class. In fact I would argue that the 8 region champs are almost never the top 8 ranked wrestlers in the state. Take any weight class and compare the top 8 ranked wrestlers and the region champs. This should make it much easier to seed. If you don't win your region then you are still drawn in blind like everyone else, even if you're the second best wrestler in the state. For example, my senior year I lost in the state finals to the same wrestler I lost to in the region finals. I would not have been eligible for seeding while other region champs I had beaten throughout the year would have been eligible. This would cut down on a LOT of the debates in the seeding meetings. Sorry I know I rambled a little... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EMS Coach Cardwell 17 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 D.W., I disagree, I have proposed KYgrappler's idea before. Think about it, just because you seed the region champs doesn't mean you will be seeding the top 8 wrestlers at a given weight class. In fact I would argue that the 8 region champs are almost never the top 8 ranked wrestlers in the state. Take any weight class and compare the top 8 ranked wrestlers and the region champs. This should make it much easier to seed. If you don't win your region then you are still drawn in blind like everyone else, even if you're the second best wrestler in the state. For example, my senior year I lost in the state finals to the same wrestler I lost to in the region finals. I would not have been eligible for seeding while other region champs I had beaten throughout the year would have been eligible. This would cut down on a LOT of the debates in the seeding meetings. Sorry I know I rambled a little... No worries as far as the rambling goes, I tend to do it too. I completely understand your point, I just don't understand how this could be done objectively. You would have to assign a committee to take on this task. Like it or not, everyone on this committee, on some level would support their own agendas. They may not even realize that they are showing favoritism, but it could always be argued that they were. Although it may be a little anti climatic at times, I believe the blind draw system we use now is the most fair way to do the State Tournament. Seems to give everyone the same chance. Good draw, bad draw, doesn't really matter. The cream will always rise. Just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hawk_Eye 7 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 No worries as far as the rambling goes, I tend to do it too. I completely understand your point, I just don't understand how this could be done objectively. You would have to assign a committee to take on this task. Like it or not, everyone on this committee, on some level would support their own agendas. They may not even realize that they are showing favoritism, but it could always be argued that they were. Although it may be a little anti climatic at times, I believe the blind draw system we use now is the most fair way to do the State Tournament. Seems to give everyone the same chance. Good draw, bad draw, doesn't really matter. The cream will always rise. Just my opinion, nothing more, nothing less. What about having a committee from out of state sit down with a list of the rankings that ranger puts out and they go through it with all the results from the year and figure out the seeding. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FalconWrestling 147 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 If we had seeding then we would argue about guys getting screwed in seeding meetings. Honestly I have nothing against it cause some of the brackets this year have too many of the top level guys on one side of the bracket (132, 182, etc). At least we don't have Tennessee's system where if the guy you lose to loses his next match you're out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted February 15, 2012 FCHS, Kentucky had that system in the 80s up till they had District, Region, Semi state and state. 86 and 87 seasons. State was an 8 man bracket 1 day event. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EMS Coach Cardwell 17 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 What about having a committee from out of state sit down with a list of the rankings that ranger puts out and they go through it with all the results from the year and figure out the seeding. I think your on the right track, but you could still have someone who is associated with so and so, and he only got that seed because Coach whoever went to Nowhere State University with that guys third cousins boyfriends sisters best friend. See what I mean, it just gets goofy. Don't get me wrong, if we could figure out a bullet proof plan, I'd be all for it, but for now I will just play devils advocate to stir the conversation. Maybe a BCS type computer software program is the answer. Who knows?!?!?!?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Josh_Claywell 52 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 Like Coach Canter told me when I asked him about seeding the state tourney, he said there's not enough time between the end of regions and the start of State to seed -- simply because everyone would have different opinions on which wrestlers get which seeds, and that would take a long time to sort through. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazyotto 381 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 Ohio: All wrestlers qualify for one of 16 designated Sectionals. The sectional is seeded via criteria and coaches meeting. Top four from each Sectional move on to one of four Districts. Sectional finalists are separated into different quarters of the 16-man District bracket. Sectional 1st vs Sectional 4th, 2nd v 3rd. Top four from District move onto State. Four districts, top four, 16-man bracket. State bracket is filled in as was District, with a little twist. In addition to separating same District finalists, returning state champs/placers are kept separate as best as possible, called "protection". This explanation is oversimplifying things a little bit. You get the point though. Basically, rankings are thrown out the window. No real need for them though. The top guys naturally rise to the top through Sectionals and then again at Districts.There are occasions in which three of the top guys may come out of one District. In this case you will see the #3 knock off the #2 (first round) and the #1 (second round) in his quarter of the bracket. There is very little rooom, if any, for squabbling about your "seed". Rankings, while important on some level are nothing more than entertainment. The work involved is very much appreciated. Let's face it though. How in the world can ranking individual wrestlers be accurate beyond the top two or possibly three guys? For a good read for all you rankings nerds (myself included) check out the Brakeman Report. It can be found at the link below, or type in Brakeman Report on your search engine. www.baumspage.com/brakeman/index.htm 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halfhalfhalf 121 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 FCHS and GOO Tennessee tournament is no longer a carry tournament. They went to double elimination last season.... Rumor has it they will split into Big school/small school for individual.... Also going to sectionals , region and state will not happen... It will not bring in a lot of $$$$. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
crazyotto 381 Report post Posted February 16, 2012 FCHS and GOO Tennessee tournament is no longer a carry tournament. They went to double elimination last season.... Rumor has it they will split into Big school/small school for individual.... Also going to sectionals , region and state will not happen... It will not bring in a lot of $$$$. I would guess it would bring in a ton more money. Sectionals, Districts, and State are all OHSAA sanctioned events. Sectionals and Districts are two day events each. That equates to four days of wrestling gates as compared to one day of gates in the KHSAA current set up. I have never been to a Sectional or District that is not jam packed with fans. State tournament begins Thursday evening and runs all day Friday and Saturday. In essence, an extra half day's worth of gates, as KHSAA runs a two day event. Attendance at the state tournament is around 15,000 per day I believe. In total, we are looking at an extra 3 1/2 days for the OHSAA to generate $$$$. No brainer. The state tournament is intense from the get go. 16 man brackets means no fish. The fish are eliminated at the sectional level. A few may make it to the district level but none make it to the state level. February is the Month Of Champions. It begins with your conference tournament, and ends at the state tournament. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tiltfor3 20 Report post Posted February 20, 2012 I know there were quite a few but, how many regional finals were also the state finals? Seems as though separating the 1&2s from regions works fairly well. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
