Mark Hall

[CoachM 1]

We can judge the ethics of the Hall family all we want, but if they are playing within the rules, then the rules need to be reevaluated and not the family playing within them.

Mark Hall is one of the best wrestlers (for his age) that I have ever seen.  His takedowns are amazing, and when he is riding on top, the hip pressure he keeps at all times makes him an amazing wrestler.  He is definitely more naturally gifted than most, and should take advantage of as much training and instruction he can get - and if his family has the means to do that, more power to them.  I don't really like how they used our state as a stepping stone, but when I watch the summer olympics years from now, I can tell everyone how I saw Mark Hall wrestle in the KY state tournament as a 7th grader.

When it comes to grades and academics I think they're kinda stretching it there...  Gray Middle School (Ryle's feeder) isn't too terrible of a school, and if his grades were that bad, shouldn't he have been ruled academically ineligible?

We have to remember we're talking about a kid here.  The cries of "it's not fair" only come because he has probably made a kid or two we know and cheer for look like a fool...  I remember seeing Hall playing on the mat in between matches rolling around with the rest of the kids during a break.  He's just a kid, and we need to not rip him and his family apart for pursing a sport we all love to it's greatest potential.

[CoachK 2]

I don't think anyone is hating on him for doing well, it's the side stuff that is bad.  Why can't he just stay on grade level and keep competing just as well?  Maybe he really can't handle the school stuff if he spends too much time doing other stuff.  I dont feel good that he came to KY for one year (actually a few months) to wrestle and then leave and go somewhere else.  It did nothing for our sport in our state and it is a shame.  Leave the morals out of it?  That's sad if you truly are a coach here and you say that..the morals should be first and wrestling next.  I am glad you weren't my coach or at my school, I would be transferring somewhere else for sure.

This kid is going to be winning olympic gold medals in the fuure.  Everyone in KY should be praising this kid for including you on his upward move to greatness.  Why even try to think what is morally right for this him if you don't walk in his shoes.  This is the number one middle school kid in the country and he is knocking off Nationally ranked kids one by one.  A kid like this only comes around once in a blue moon.  Quit hating on the kid and his dad for wanting more for him.  If you had a phenom kid you would do the best you can for him or her.  Leave the morals out of it.  When was the last time you walked on water.  Never.....remember that. 

[warrior160 0]

ok well since everybody seems to not like mark hall for some reason i have to put my 2 cents into it. mark hall is one of the best wrestlers in the country. point blank. don't hate on him because he has more ability then anybody else. his dad knows he can be the best and he can get into any college RIGHT NOW. that's why he gives him the best comp in the country because he can beat almost everybody in his weight class and other weight classes. why do grown adults try to bring him down? because he can prolly beat them also? come on now stop bagging on the kid and let him do him.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Seems to me many on here are not getting the message.

For you kids.  No one is bashing Mark Hall directly.  I have not seen one negative comment on the kid.  On the other hand many have questioned his dad's Morals.

Using the word morals is probably to strong of a word here.  What they are questioning is why is he holding him back.  If it is so he can still be a 6 time state champion then it is probably not very honest.

Mark Hall would be a great wrestler no matter if he repeated the 7th grade or not.

KYcoach-- Saying you can't make a judgment unless you walk in their shoes is not very well thought out.  If this were true then none of us should vote for the president of the United States or any other government office because we have not worked for the government. 

If it looks like a horse, sounds like a horse and smells like a horse, it must be a horse. (Or something like that)

As always.

This is the opinion of GOO

Nothing more Nothing less.

Take it or leave it, it really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things.

GOO OUT

[FalconWrestling 147]

Seems to me many on here are not getting the message.

For you kids.  No one is bashing Mark Hall directly.  I have not seen one negative comment on the kid.  On the other hand many have questioned his dad's Morals.

Using the word morals is probably to strong of a word here.  What they are questioning is why is he holding him back.  If it is so he can still be a 6 time state champion then it is probably not very honest.

Mark Hall would be a great wrestler no matter if he repeated the 7th grade or not.

KYcoach-- Saying you can't make a judgment unless you walk in their shoes is not very well thought out.  If this were true then none of us should vote for the president of the United States or any other government office because we have not worked for the government. 

If it looks like a horse, sounds like a horse and smells like a horse, it must be a horse. (Or something like that)

As always.

This is the opinion of GOO

Nothing more Nothing less.

Take it or leave it, it really doesn't matter in the whole scheme of things.

GOO OUT

I wish we still had those thumbs up buttons haha

[Josh_Claywell 52]

Mark Hall is an unbelievably talented wrestler. I'm glad I got to see him in action at State last year, just so I can say "I saw this kid wrestle in the Kentucky state tournament as a seventh-grader" when he goes on to bigger and better things in the future.

[oldwrestler81 6]

As is not usually the case I agree with refdad  Mark Hall is a unique talent which we are unlikely to see in the state of Kentucky (or anywhere else soon) again.  He is not the one making the decisions in his career.  Quite simply I believe his dad's goal is too make him the "best wrestler at every level for all time" and is prepared to do anything to achieve just that.  I agree he is bending the spirit if not the letter of the law.

But before we get too critical lets look the most sacred cow in this state Kentucky Basketball.  They hire a coach who is known to break the rules but wins.  They recruit "student athletes" knowing that this is just a one or two year stop before the NBA. The powers in high school basketball recruit the best kids. Where's all the uproar about this? 

We all know that any high school program in the state would love to have Mark Hall in their room this January he made the other kids in the room better by wrestling them and he demonstrated to everyone else what you can do in this sport with hard work and dedication.  This sport more than any other rewards the kid who sacrifices the most and works the hardest (and smartest).  Mark Hall will probably devote his entire life to wrestling.  Maybe he will make a ton of money with it (Chertow or Jordan).  The history of this sport is filled with stories of fanatic dedication leading to success (Gable, Mills, etc.)  I think the worst thing about mark Hall is it forced us to realize our wrestling is not as good as we thought it was here.  That's why some posters felt such "sweet vindication" when a high school senior who was cutting a ton of weight to get to 119 was able to beat a 12 year old in the finals.

[Notfromhere 6]

In basketball and football (and sometimes baseball), children sometimes have the opportunity to sign multi-million dollar contracts that can ensure financial security for their families for generations to come. I could understand if a family needed that. Maybe.  Still you are relying on your child to take care of thefamily. To me, there is a pimping feel to that. But in wrestling, this is not available. Just ask Brock Lesnar. He had to go to pro wrestling just to make a living, until MMA matured. To say that there is one coach somewhere in Ohio that somehow got rich off amateur wrestling does not make your point.  Dan Gable is probably comfortable from video sales. Cael Sanderson has a shoe contract. Rulon Gardner gets paid to speak. That's about it. Brock Lesnar and a few others jacked up on steroids and embarassed themselves in pro wrestling. Randy Couture and a handful of others made money in the UFC. It is not like basketball andfootball where they throw out multi-million dollar signing bonuses.

If the kid can already beat HS seniors, why hold him back?  To stroke your own ego, I suspect.

[Mr Granby 0]

I would like to think that being honest is one of the greatest attributes a wrestler gains by participating in the sport.  We are a different breed flat out.  Wrestling is more rewarding than any million dollar contract to me.  The things I have overcome because of what wrestling has taught me to do is overwhelming.  I believe that this thread is starting to get a little out of perspective at the moment.  Comparing this to D1 Basketball recruiting is not a good point.  It really is not needed.  The fact remains if all the things involving Mark Hall and his wrestling career are within the rules there is not much we can say about it whether it be wrong or not.  Nobody is bashing Mark, in fact this thread started out by a video of the kid doing what he does best. Wrestling.

[pridewrestler 0]

This thread needs to be locked or removed

[refdad 3]

Notfromhere; I won't waste any more of my time responding to your comments. It's obvious your very informed. Oldwrestler81' I didn't know you usually disagree with me, so thanks for the vote of confidence.

[refdad 3]

Excuse me, that was supposed to be your NOT very informed!

[oldwrestler81 6]

No problem for the voe of confidence.  How do you think this thread might evolve if a certain wrestler named Steffan (and his dad) had moved down here instead of Mark Hall?

[eville dad 17]

The kids sounds like a great kid caught up in a very unusual situation.

Another argument for middle schoolers to stay in Middle School. If they arent completing high school academic curriculum they shouldnt be participating in high school sports.

I have heard of families relocating to KY for their basketball playing kids, but they are moving the family or the kids are moving in with family, Aunts or Uncles. This seems excessive but more reasonable. But to move just for the season and to live in a mobile home is a bit of a stretch regardless the reason. Where was the KHSAA on this?

[Notfromhere 6]

Refdad, I don't understand what you mean. Perhaps there is some professional wrestling league that I am not informed about. I thought wrestling was an amateur sport. Are you saying that there is a way that a wrestler out of high school or college can get paid miilions of dollars to wrestle?  I did not know that. I have friends fighting MMA matches for $500 or less.

If you are making millions as a wrestling coach, you must be a businessman running camps or something. The wrestling coaches I know are school teachers making $40,000 and a couple of extra bucks per month to coach.

I do know that the NBA pays million dollar signing bonuses to players that end up in Europe, the D league or out of basketball completely. THAT might be worth the risk of transferring, holding the kid back, etc.

My kid wants to go to medical school. If I hold him back for athletics, that COSTS him $250,000 possibly in lost wages earning potential. Let's just ALL hold our kids back so they can have an advantage in athletics. That's what is important in amateur scholastic athletics!

[Ranger123 43]

Interesting that eville dad jumped into this discussion.  His son was one of the best KY MS wrestlers I have ever seen.  In fact, I tried to convince him to have him compete at the high school level.  He eventually became one of my favorite wrestlers to watch of all time.

Regarding Mark Hall, I'm with refdad as well.  It is safe to assume no one on this site knows all that is going on in Mark's life or his family.  Everything I have heard is that Mark is a great kid and deserves all of the success he achieves.  He is a true phenom.  And like a few others have said, I look forward to the day when I will be sitting on the couch watching the NCAA championships or Olympics with my boys and say "remember when we saw him wrestle for Ryle?"

I admit I was very much against the idea of a short stay in KY to win a state championship and immediately moving back to Michigan.  I would support a real move-in 100%.  I also do not like the idea of holding back for athletic purposes.  Again, we don't know all of the details of Mark's situation.  But for discussion purposes, let's assume it is purely athletics driven.  What type of lesson is this teaching Mark?  To me it is saying, "you couldn't win 6 championships, so let's find a way to get around it?"  To me, when/if Mark pulls of the 6 titles so many people around the country will say, BUT IT TOOK HIM 7 TRIES.  And in my mind, I'm not sure what Mark gains as a wrestler by repeating.  He is already beating, not just competing with, but beating nationally ranked high school kids.  What happens in 4 years?

I will finish by saying Mark has worked his tail off for years to become potentially one of the greatest wrestlers to compete in KY.  He has set an example for all of us in KY to step up our game.  I think we have seen our kids move in that direction with increased participation in events like Nationals and Fargo and The Beast of the East.  We can question the right and wrong of the decisions of his family (moving and holding back), but in the end, those are family decisions and really none of our business.  Hopefully, everything is within the rules and guidelines, but that is up to the state to decide.  We just need to sit back and enjoy the wrestling and push our kids to reach their potential.

[oldwrestler81 6]

Notfromhere:

Do you know how many of these kids in basketball, football and baseball actually make it to the real money?  Can you name 10 kids in the last 20 years  from Kentucky who made it to the pros and really cashed in.  The idea of making it as a pro athelte is about as smart as funding your retirement plan by buing lottery tickets

[grappler-of-old 44]

We all know that any high school program in the state would love to have Mark Hall in their room this January he made the other kids in the room better by wrestling them and he demonstrated to everyone else what you can do in this sport with hard work and dedication. 

I would say this is true only if he is there to practice with them. Not participate and leave after 5 months.  I don't believe any coach wants a kid who they will not be able to coach.  He brings his own coaches.

You have to remember it's not what you receive at the end of the year. (Such as a team state title.), but rather how you get it.

If you are part of a team that wins a state title because of kids who transfer in for one or two years then those kids did not grow up in your system.  There are to many kids today try to ride on the back of their best wrestler and try to live through them.  Instead of trying to be great themselves. 

Mark Hall himself has a good work ethic and drive, however renting him for a year or two is not what a high school coach would want in his wrestling room.

Once again

This is the opinion of GOO

Nothing more nothing less

GOO OUT

[DBW 1]

Uummm, isn't it more likely that he is repeating 7th grade because he transferred schools 2 or 3 times in the last year.  Going from Michigan to Kentucky, back to Michigan, then to a new school this year, some of the classes may not have transferred.  Before I will blast his Dad for holding him back for athletics (which happens in KY as well), we might find a less ominous explanation.

[eville dad 17]

Who was checking his grades while he wrestled HS and attended MS?

How does that all work for MS kids wrestling HS, do the MS teachers validate he's passing classes with the appropriate grade point average?

[DBW 1]

Who was checking his grades while he wrestled HS and attended MS?

How does that all work for MS kids wrestling HS, do the MS teachers validate he's passing classes with the appropriate grade point average?

It may not be a matter of grade point average, just a matter of what core classes are required in Michigan verses Kentucky, and what classes transfer.  Could also be a matter of missing a certain number of classes.  The point is that this thread assumed it was being done for sports, and no one here has any information to support that. (ok, if I was betting, I would go thatway as well :evil:). 

[ryledad 0]

I wasn't going to speak on this topic as it has been beat to death.  Mark Hall was going to repeat a grade either 7th or 8th when he came to Kentucky from the start.  BTW.  The Ryle school district is one of the best academically in the state.  Gray Middle School is a great place to get an education.  Mark Hall the son is no dumby very smart.  He made good grades and worked on them accordingly.  He spent many nights at my house on the weekends.  He is a great kid.  Kids get held back in school to enhance their chances all the time.  There was a thread a few years ago about kids in Kentucky staying back to become middle school state champs.  Whoopee!  There is a kid in northern kentucky that is as big as a house who plays football and his dad played in the NFL for years.  He got held back in middle school.  So what.  It is his kid and he is doing what he thinks is best.  Some people don't like Mark Hall the dad but I will tell you he drove several of Marks varsity team mates up to Michigan last year on his own dime gave them room and board and some tough workouts with Michigan boys.  He didn't have to do it but he did.  They didn't come down to wrestle middle schoolers they came to wrestle varsity and most of those matches were in Ohio.  He lost three matches this past year.  One was a kid from Graham and the other two were Bradbury who is on tough wrestler.  He wanted Mark to have some good wrestling partners and be able to wrestle varsity and that mission was accomplished.  Good luck to them in the future.

[wrestlesmart 15]

Thanks Ryledad, this topic has been beat to death. Whether you agree or disagree it is what is best for that particular family, the kid obviously in in a unique situation and they are obviously trying to do what's best for the Hall Family.  I thought I would log on yesterday and read post about how well the kids from KY did at the beast and this subject has definitely taken on a life of it's own.

[eville dad 17]

I shouldnt have referenced Hall in my earlier comments. I dont know his situation other than hes an awesome wrestler. My comments were meant more towards the issue of grades in general.  I meant to really just question the validation of grades for any middle school athlete competing in a high school sport, any sport, anywhere. How are their grades validated to declare academic eligibility to be able to compete in any school sport..

My quess is that they are not in many cases.

[Ranger123 43]

I shouldnt have referenced Hall in my earlier comments. I dont know his situation other than hes an awesome wrestler. My comments were meant more towards the issue of grades in general.  I meant to really just question the validation of grades for any middle school athlete competing in a high school sport, any sport, anywhere. How are their grades validated to declare academic eligibility to be able to compete in any school sport..

My quess is that they are not in many cases.

I know in our program, the middle school eligibility criteria is more strict than the high school.  Typically the kid is assumed by the school to be on the middle school team and has their grades checked likewise.