what happened at nationals?

[grapplehed 8]

So, now we have been at the National tournament and come home with 3 All Americans, none of which were State Champions and all were underclassmen.  Congrats to Bradbury 2nd, Coyle 6th, and Brown-8th. 

I think the seniors went 15-21ish lead by Reid 4-2.  Sullivan 0-2, Peace 0-2, Courtney 0-2, all multiple state champs and the guys who beat them didn't do very well either. I understand Courtney was injured and Sullivan never should have been at 119, not against that competition. 

I wasn't there so I can't speak for anyone, but I know the level of competition and coming in unprepared is a huge mistake.  This is far more important than state.  This is one of the pinnacle tournaments for college recruits.  1st- All matches are tough and anyone can win and they will be from here on out at this level. 2nd With college coaches swarming the mat sides and taking notes, Some of those matches had BIG price tags.  Thousands of dollars in scholarships on the line.  3rd-Will this predict their success in college? Doubtful, but it helps mom and dads pocketbook.

Finally, kudos for those who went to either for the competition or to see where they stand on the ladder.

This is the largest representation KY has had and this should never discourage anyone from competing at this level. 

Whats next... Fargo.  Train FS/GR. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK

    1st I kind of understand the importance of this tourney to the seniors and maybe the Jr.'s, but dissagree about the importance to the freshman and Sophomore's.  Lets not make this out to be more than what it is.  It's a tourney that shows how close Ky wrestling is to the rest of the states. 

    2nd.  My question is this.  How many other states have their state tourney on the 2nd week in February like Ky?  Ky does this so not to interfere with the sweet 16.  I know Ohio's state tourney is in March.  Is having the state tourney in early Feb. unusual or not?

If it is then this gives our kids a slight disadvantage because they have been out of season longer than the rest. As I said I don't know and I am just asking the question.

[grapplehed 8]

1.  I was referring to the Jrs and especially the seniors, my fault for not being specific.  Fr. and So. should have the focus on state.

2. Our timing for state is bad, too early.  Football isn't even finished.

[slammer 0]

Can someone list all the ky wrestlers and what they did.  How many won more than they lost and who beat nationally ranked kids.  Congrats to all of them. 

[grapplehed 8]

Slammer,

see the topic Nationals

[A Mom 0]

My opinion... as was stated this is the largest showing for Kentucky and it is terrific...  Hopefully we will continue to grow the participation.  I think the biggest issue with the results are 1. not enough preparation, 2.  not understanding the level of competition and 3.  not understanding the importance this particular event can be to their future... if they want wrestling in their future.    Again... in my opinion... this is exactly the type of tournament freshmen and sophmores should be attending so that when they are juniors and seniors they are better prepared to compete.  We will only see this sport get better and raise itself to the level of the Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc. if we compete at this level.  Would love to see more compete at Fargo, the Beast, etc.

[snap-drag 0]

Another big factor that has not been mentioned is our kids have to go nationals without their coach.  I know that other coaches from different schools can coach but they dont know what another wrestler can do.  This weekend in on particular match we couldnt find anyone to coach one of our matches, so we just had to pull a stranger into our corner.  This is rediculous!!!!  Other states could have their own coaches, and they could not understand why Kentucky wrestlers had to have other people besides their own coach in their corners.

[bulldog-leader 56]

Why can't the volunteer coaches of teams coach kids in the nationals?

    I know many of the larger teams have coaches that are not paid by the high school, but they attend almost every practice and every event.  These coaches should be very familliar with thier kids. 

    Since I will be a volunteer coach the next 5 years I would think that I could coach kids on the team that my son wrestles for.  He will not be in high school next year but the 4 years after that I plan on attending all practices and events.  Therefore I will know all the kids on the team and be able to coach them.  I would think that some of these other schools would have similar people on their team. 

    Would the KHSAA have any juristiction over these type of individuals?

[A Mom 0]

I'm sure the volunteer coaches could coach... however they are not always available to attend these... they have jobs they can't always get off for events... and then be away from their families at their expense;... I know there are team coaches that go and help out... and even risk getting "in trouble" for coaching their kids.  It is totally ridiculous that they spend their money to attend events for their team on their own time but are not "allowed" to officially coach their team.    ...and we wonder why we hae trouble finding good people to coach... it isn't for the pay... I'm quite sure of that...

[workhard 28]

I would like to thank Coach Brown for going and coaching any Ky. wrestler who needed a coach when he wasnt allowed to coach his Trinity wrestlers at this event. Thank you Coach Brown you were a big help to my son and we were glad you were there.

[rebelyell 0]

The issue regarding coaches coaching their own kids at nationals was addressed last year after the tournament.  KHSAA would not budge.  I was told at last year's tournament that Ky and only one other state do not allow their coaches.  I"m not sure if this is true, but it came from a NHSCA official.  This absolutely puts our kid at a disadvantage.  I know that alot of the wrestlers worked hard over the last 4 weeks getting ready for nationals.  Trinity and Ryle held regular practices for the boys.  Many drove a couple of hours on Sundays to work out together in Cincinnati.  The competition was stiff in Virginia Beach this week.  Twice as many underclassmen were registered than ever before.  However, in the grand scheme of things, matches WERE won.  I don't think that many went

0-2.

Overall, I think Ky has a couple of problems to overcome:

1.  The coaching issue

2.  Our kids need to wrestle the boys of this level more often.  You can't do it once a year.

3.  Compared to some of the other states, our state tournament is really early.  Some of these kids are coming right off their tournament.

[kdsmith27 14]

Why can't the volunteer coaches of teams coach kids in the nationals?

     I know many of the larger teams have coaches that are not paid by the high school, but they attend almost every practice and every event.  These coaches should be very familliar with thier kids. 

     Since I will be a volunteer coach the next 5 years I would think that I could coach kids on the team that my son wrestles for.  He will not be in high school next year but the 4 years after that I plan on attending all practices and events.  Therefore I will know all the kids on the team and be able to coach them.  I would think that some of these other schools would have similar people on their team. 

     Would the KHSAA have any juristiction over these type of individuals?

Bylaw 25. Limitation of Seasons

6) Involvement of Members of the Coaching Staff Out of

Season

Members of the high school coaching staff (paid or unpaid)

shall not be prohibited from sport specific observation

and evaluation (but not coaching) of any player who has

played for a grade nine (9) through grade twelve (12)

team (freshman, junior varsity, varsity) from the first

day of school through the last day of school provided such

play is under the direct control of the same local board

of education as the coach is employed and provided such

play is not in conflict with other KHSAA bylaws.

[bulldog-leader 56]

Depending on how you read this bylaw. 

    One way to read this would be that any person involved with a team is unable to coach an individual after the season.  Because it says unpaid coaches.  What does this mean?

    If a parent attends practices helps out in practice and sits in on matches when needed are they considered a coach of that school?  To be able to attend a high school practice, all you need is an officials liscense.  If so then I was a coach at two high schools last year, and my old assistant coach was also.

    Are high school baseball coaches not allowed to coach a knothole or little leage team? 

[kdsmith27 14]

On a Good note, i am challanging the KHSAA about bylaw 25. Most of the coaches know that I started an online petition last year asking for input to my request to change the bylaw 25 to allow coaches to coach post season stating some of the same reasons that are posted.

I have written and talked with Jilian Tacket about our issues with this bylaw and he supports our venue. Although he does not have the authority himself to change this bylaw, Julian has given me guidence to what i need to do to have it changed. I have written a letter and have found an (AD) "sponsor" to represent us and request that bylaw 25 be changed to allow coaches to coach added to the docket of the next board of control meeting to be voted on. This AD is an asset to us as our sponsor because of this AD's background with wrestling. This sponsor also remains very active in wrestling during and after our season. Hopefully by the end of our season next year we will be able to coach our kids.

[rebelyell 0]

Thanks.  We really need this bylaw changed.  A group of parents petitioned KHSAA last year and got nowhere.  I'm glad to know the coaches were busy doing the same thing.

[kdsmith27 14]

Depending on how you read this bylaw. 

     One way to read this would be that any person involved with a team is unable to coach an individual after the season.  Because it says unpaid coaches.  What does this mean?

     If a parent attends practices helps out in practice and sits in on matches when needed are they considered a coach of that school?  To be able to attend a high school practice, all you need is an officials liscense.  If so then I was a coach at two high schools last year, and my old assistant coach was also.

     Are high school baseball coaches not allowed to coach a knothole or little leage team? 

If a parent or voluteer coach helps at your practice, it involves them too. and of course it's not hard to know who is helping at practice because you are required to fill out a volunteer form on them so they can help.

[grapplehed 8]

Wt Finalist Finalist 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th

103 Meis-CO Gendreau-CA Camacho-CA Deleon-NJ Diaz-CA Dubay-ME Rosso-NY Ballantyne-UT

112 Langel-NJ Futrell-IL Acosta-CA Romero-WA Rickard-MI Sutter-WI Vandertoolen-UT Brown-PA

119 Keller-KS Cortese-PA Solberg-ND Jauch-IL Williams-CA Colon-NJ Cimato-PA Alarcon-CA

125 Albright-PA Sentes-FL Stanzione-NJ Stevens-MI Fusco-NJ Kelliher-MN Mangum-UT Morrill-UT

130 Reber-PA Oliver-Pa Valenti-NJ Kristich-PA Grabfelder-PA Garnett-DE Grassi-NJ Banks-CT

135 Skonieczny-OH Weber-MI Hucke-WI Walraven-SD Holloway-MO Mang-TN Pisani-CA Stinnett-MD

140 Edwards-VA Chamberlain-UT Van Dyk-NJ Terrazas-IL Koren-NC Brumley-MI Stevenson-CA Tasser-PA

145 Ramos-IL Mason-NJ Messerall-OH Polkowske-CO Clarke-NJ Cosgrove-IN Vinson-NY Joiner-MO

152 Condon-GA Johnson-ND Turner-PA Gregoris-NC Moore-OH Salazar-UT Kusar-OH Lopushanskiy-FL

160 Winston-NJ Bosak-PA Cubberly-OH Smith-UT Munoz-TX Held-FL Gresh-NY Edmunds-NV

171 Bennett-MI Collins-CA Burge-MI Roddy-OH Peltier-NJ Yohn-CO Meredith-CA Starks-WA

189 Geiger-OR Haynes-MO Budi-WI Norgren-MN Fager-UT Lines-MN Helbig-MI Bencomo-AZ

215 Dubose-MI Pettengill-MI Brand-MN Wilson-VA Delaney-FL Glore-MO Kahnke-MN Flavin-GA

285 Haddad-PA Colling-NY Maresh-MN Correll-MI Disney-KS Hiles-OH Zlatnik-KS Cook-VA

Plc Points Team  Plc Points Team  Plc Points Team  Plc Points Team

1 222.5 NJ  13 93.0 VA  25 42.5 SC  38 17 DE

2 205.0 MI  14 92.0 FL  26 42.0 TN  38 17 ME

3 200.5 PA  15 80.5 CO  27 39.0 AZ  40 16 NM

4 160.0 OH  16 72.0 ND  28 32.5 KY  41 15 OK

5 156.0 CA  17 66.5 GA  29 32.0 SD  42 14 VT

6 134.0 MN  18 62.0 NC  30 31.0 OR  42 14 WY

7 129.5 UT  19 54.5 MD  31 30.5 IA  44 13 ID

8 127.5 NY  20 52.0 WA  32 30.0 IN  45 10 MT

9 104.0 IL  21 48.5 MA  33 29.5 CT  46 8 NH

10 103.0 MO  22 47.0 TX  34 29.0 NV  47 5 HI

11 99.0 KS  23 44.0 AL  35 27.0 AK  48 0 MS

11 99.0 WI  23 44.0 NE  36 18.0 LA  48 0 RI

        36 18.0 WV   

[bulldog-leader 56]

If a parent or voluteer coach helps at your practice, it involves them too. and of course it's not hard to know who is helping at practice because you are required to fill out a volunteer form on them so they can help.

Guess it is a good thing I am not coaching any more because I never had any of my helpers fill out any forms. Never knew one existed.

And I find it hard to believe that all the alumni are filling out those forms when they come to practice and wrestle with the high school kids.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Guess it is a good thing I am not coaching any more because I never had any of my helpers fill out any forms. Never knew one existed.

And I find it hard to believe that all the alumni are filling out those forms when they come to practice and wrestle with the high school kids.

Yes, a lot of coaches/teams bend these khsaa rules.  Good for them.  Our wrestling community needs to stick together on this, and just not snitch on coaches trying to help their kids out in the off season.  Until the KHSAA gets with the times, and realizes they are SCREWING our kids with rules like this, we need to just overlook this type of stuff in my opinion.

The other thing is the season being so early.....that definitely hurts our state at nationals.  Indiana's youth & m.s. season really doesn't get started in full swing until around January.  Their state is around March I believe, so they go to all the national tournaments in March & April in peak performance mode.  Ohio's & PA's state tournaments are later too.  Just the making weight aspect of this stacks the deck against our kids.  Not sure what the answer is here, other than having the coaches complain to the KHSAA? 

[kdsmith27 14]

Guess it is a good thing I am not coaching any more because I never had any of my helpers fill out any forms. Never knew one existed.

And I find it hard to believe that all the alumni are filling out those forms when they come to practice and wrestle with the high school kids.

I'm just telling you what we have to do in hardin county. It doesn't mean we get all the forms!!

[tiltfor3 20]

I'm just going to put this out there:

1) We can't expect our kids to close the gap on other states at national tournaments with a couple of more weeks of preparation because of the timing of state tournament. Nothing is better than mat time. Growing up in Ohio, I was introduced to it in the 4th grade. It is awesome that we had such a large contingent of underclassmen but, the real impact is going to come from the kids that competed in Danville.

2) Regarding the KHSAA, it governs all sanctioned sports and is difficult if not impossible to grant an exception to one sport over an other. Think of the inequities that could arise if every basketball, soccer, or volleyball team would coach their high school players in AAU or club competition. Relative to the volunteer or graduated wrestlers on the mat, here

[myGSP 4]

This rule why Michigan had no Freshman, Sophomores, or Juniors at the Nationals. Seniors go because their eligibility is done. If you watch some of the videos of Mi Seniors wrestling this past weekend, you will see a Coach that has a mask on so he can't be ID. Not sure why they have this rule.

http://www.flocasts.org/flowrestling/coverage.php?c=231&w=states&v=MI&id=12133

http://www.flocasts.org/flowrestling/coverage.php?c=231&w=states&v=MI&id=12088

D.

[pioneer_pride 1]

This rule why Michigan had no Freshman, Sophomores, or Juniors at the Nationals. Seniors go because their eligibility is done. If you watch some of the videos of Mi Seniors wrestling this past weekend, you will see a Coach that has a mask on so he can't be ID. Not sure why they have this rule.

http://www.flocasts.org/flowrestling/coverage.php?c=231&w=states&v=MI&id=12133

http://www.flocasts.org/flowrestling/coverage.php?c=231&w=states&v=MI&id=12088

D.

[Charger Coach 14]

Sorry Coach Brown, even if you were to wear a mask, I think you would still be identifiable.

[Danger 0]

Sorry Coach Brown, even if you were to wear a mask, I think you would still be identifiable.

No way. With his average stature, he would never be picked out.