New rules for KY MS Wrestling

[Ranger123 43]

As the head coach of a school team and parent of a kid on a school team, here are my 2 cents...

1) i do not like to see kids get pulled away from their school programs to participate on club teams, BUT I am a supporter of doing what is best for your kids, so if that means they need to move to a club team to get better coaching, partners, schedule, etc. then so be it. If a school team is losing kids to a local club team then they need to step up their game to retain the better kids.

2) i think the perception of the club teams is worse than the reality. many of the ms club teams are really school teams (majority of their kids) that allow kids outside their school district to participate on the team. At CC we don't allow kids in private/catholic schools in our county to participate on the team. Union does. We lose out on potentially getting a kid hooked on the sport in ms and them coming to CCHS due to the wrestling program. Union may get that kid or at least benefit from their participation through ms.

Bottom line for me is this. Yes, a few school teams are hurt by a club team pulling a kid or two away, but they also provide a needed service for many kids out there who do not have school teams to participate with. Do they have an advantage? Yes. Does that hurt the sport? Not at all. In fact I think it helps, by pushing school teams like ours to get better to be able to compete. And if we create new rules that limit participation on club teams all we would see is a reduction in the number of clubs and less participation overall.

[kyor74 0]

You want to make everyone better, switch all teams to clubs teams. Let everyone go where they want and run all tournaments on weekends as opens. Everyone is wanting to raise the talent across the state. Well doing it this way will have some new wrestlers competeing against better kids, but it will also allow EVERY kid that practices monday thru friday an opportunity to wrestle every weekend. Your better kids will also still get to wrestle against kids with similar talent by advancing to the later rounds in the brackets. If we really want to raise the talent level across the board in the state, you need to keep kids interested in the sport. Many of the tournaments we run throughout the year are ran as duals. When you do that there is only one kid per weight per school wrestling. Running open brackets allows multiple kids per weight, per club the opportunity to wrestle at least 2 matches every weekend. The chance to work hard during the week, with the chance to at least compete every weekend will raise the talent level across the state. The top kids in this state are good and could compete at a high level in many places throughout the nation,but the next level down falls off fast. Yes it is getting better every year but you guys are asking for suggestions.

[dagger 7]

As the head coach of a school team and parent of a kid on a school team, here are my 2 cents...

1) i do not like to see kids get pulled away from their school programs to participate on club teams, BUT I am a supporter of doing what is best for your kids, so if that means they need to move to a club team to get better coaching, partners, schedule, etc. then so be it. If a school team is losing kids to a local club team then they need to step up their game to retain the better kids.

2) i think the perception of the club teams is worse than the reality. many of the ms club teams are really school teams (majority of their kids) that allow kids outside their school district to participate on the team. At CC we don't allow kids in private/catholic schools in our county to participate on the team. Union does. We lose out on potentially getting a kid hooked on the sport in ms and them coming to CCHS due to the wrestling program. Union may get that kid or at least benefit from their participation through ms.

Bottom line for me is this. Yes, a few school teams are hurt by a club team pulling a kid or two away, but they also provide a needed service for many kids out there who do not have school teams to participate with. Do they have an advantage? Yes. Does that hurt the sport? Not at all. In fact I think it helps, by pushing school teams like ours to get better to be able to compete. And if we create new rules that limit participation on club teams all we would see is a reduction in the number of clubs and less participation

overall.

Union does have a private school that has 30 boys in their middle school. But they are also a direct feeder into Union County High School along with union county middle. Even with the two school put together they only pull from 230 boys. So when you look at the number of boys in middle school from Campbell and Union I bet Campbell would have a larger pull of boys to pick from. I am guessing because CC is a large school and Union is a small school. I could be wrong but I bet they have more boys in their middle school then Union does with both private and public combined.

Also Union County only has one high school so everyone goes there.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

You want to make everyone better, switch all teams to clubs teams. Let everyone go where they want and run all tournaments on weekends as opens. Everyone is wanting to raise the talent across the state. Well doing it this way will have some new wrestlers competeing against better kids, but it will also allow EVERY kid that practices monday thru friday an opportunity to wrestle every weekend. Your better kids will also still get to wrestle against kids with similar talent by advancing to the later rounds in the brackets. If we really want to raise the talent level across the board in the state, you need to keep kids interested in the sport. Many of the tournaments we run throughout the year are ran as duals. When you do that there is only one kid per weight per school wrestling. Running open brackets allows multiple kids per weight, per club the opportunity to wrestle at least 2 matches every weekend. The chance to work hard during the week, with the chance to at least compete every weekend will raise the talent level across the state. The top kids in this state are good and could compete at a high level in many places throughout the nation,but the next level down falls off fast. Yes it is getting better every year but you guys are asking for suggestions.

One thing I really prefer about duals over individuals is that there is usually less down time. I've found that my son usually performs better at duals because he has less time in between matches and has the excitement of cheering on his teammates as hes waiting. At individuals you may have hours (we have waited more than 5 hours before) before wrestling, or in between, watching kids you dont know. I understand what you're saying but I've also been at tournaments where the brackets of only some of the weight classes were strong and the rest of the brackets (usually round robins) pretty much sucked.

[kyor74 0]

One thing I really prefer about duals over individuals is that there is usually less down time. I've found that my son usually performs better at duals because he has less time in between matches and has the excitement of cheering on his teammates as hes waiting. At individuals you may have hours (we have waited more than 5 hours before) before wrestling, or in between, watching kids you dont know. I understand what you're saying but I've also been at tournaments where the brackets of only some of the weight classes were strong and the rest of the brackets (usually round robins) pretty much sucked.

If you prestage each weight class and then have them come out that way, you don't have much down time. The only time you have downtime at that point is in the later rounds while updating the brackets. The point is making everyone better and this is a way to raise the talent pool across the board. Having weight classes where brackets are weak is the same as having weight classes in that are weak in duals. You just don't have to sit through it all at obce (the only downfall). But allowing those weak weight classes the chance to wrestle every weekend, is where they get better. Raising the level of competition for everyone.

[bigedcoach 27]

Clubs do have a roll in MS wrestling, they provide an overlap in areas where there are no teams, My OPINION is that say if a kid goes to school B and they have a team then he should wrestle for that team . If he want more elite training, join a club after the scholastic season. We call this Middle School wrestling, if we just let everything just go to club then lets call it Kentucky USA Wrestling and let the recruiting begin, Im will say this, its not an accident that the River City Wrestling club wears green and gold singlets

[Ranger123 43]

Yes, I'm confident CC pulls from a much larger pool than UC.

Don't need open tournaments. At CC we get essentially all our kids (35+) on the mat almost every weekend. We send out an A and B team; sometimes to the same event, sometimes in opposite directions. Not always easy to pull off and gets expensive, but those kids work too hard to not get mat time.

[kyor74 0]

Yes, I'm confident CC pulls from a much larger pool than UC.

Don't need open tournaments. At CC we get essentially all our kids (35+) on the mat almost every weekend. We send out an A and B team; sometimes to the same event, sometimes in opposite directions. Not always easy to pull off and gets expensive, but those kids work too hard to not get mat time.

Ranger, I agree your kids get to wrestle. But your club is the minority and not the norm. The experience your kids get from wrestling every weekend is why your team is towards the top. Since not every other club does that, opens allow opportunities that most teams (not yours but most others) don't get.

[Ranger123 43]

Large opens would not necessarily do much for growth as I bet there would be a lot of poorly run events where parents and kids get frustrated.

[tiltfor3 20]

Clubs do have a roll in MS wrestling, they provide an overlap in areas where there are no teams, My OPINION is that say if a kid goes to school B and they have a team then he should wrestle for that team . If he want more elite training, join a club after the scholastic season. We call this Middle School wrestling, if we just let everything just go to club then lets call it Kentucky USA Wrestling and let the recruiting begin, Im will say this, its not an accident that the River City Wrestling club wears green and gold singlets

Uh, it is USA wrestling and as far as I know there is no middle school equivalent to KHSAA.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

Large opens would not necessarily do much for growth as I bet there would be a lot of poorly run events where parents and kids get frustrated.

AMEN to that one Ranger. By the way congrats on a great season. What do you all have planned for the off season?

Clubs do have a roll in MS wrestling, they provide an overlap in areas where there are no teams, My OPINION is that say if a kid goes to school B and they have a team then he should wrestle for that team . If he want more elite training, join a club after the scholastic season. We call this Middle School wrestling, if we just let everything just go to club then lets call it Kentucky USA Wrestling and let the recruiting begin, Im will say this, its not an accident that the River City Wrestling club wears green and gold singlets

What is meant by the River City comment?

[EMS Coach Cardwell 17]

If I may, I'm quite sure that bigedcoach meant simply what he said. River City is a club that feeds St. X. Recruiting starts early, more power to u if u can get away with it. "U, is meant in the generic term." This will probably get criticized, and that's ok. Not everyone has the luxury of pretty much hand picking a team. Trust me, if I could do it I would too.

[Ranger123 43]

Focused on Team KY and Ohio TOC right now. Shoot me an email at some point if you are looking for anything in particular.

[Has Been 11]

Focused on Team KY and Ohio TOC right now. Shoot me an email at some point if you are looking for anything in particular.

Just wanted to say I hope all the middle school champions, 2nd and/or 3rd place finisher take the opportunity to enjoy the experience of team KY and the great competetion at both events.....

[Bearcats Coach 94]

I feel that Club programs and School teams have their place. My program is a CLUB and by having it this way saves us a great deal of money regarding transportation cost (buses). If we were a school team we would be required to take buses to tournaments/matches in which the funds would have to come out of our budget. Also, with a club team, we don't have to get approval from the school when we want to purchase something for our kids such as singlets, clocks, scales, trophies etc... And when it comes to fund raisers we can do whatever. With a school team we would have to get the "OK" from the admin to do any of this stuff.

Now about kids jump from school teams to club teams. This doesn't happen as often as some may think. I had 27 kids on my roster and 3 of these kids will end up wrestling for a different HS then ours. However, I do have a kid on my team that wrestled for another team the previous season. The parents of this child pretty much said that he felt that our program had better drill partners, more technical coaches and a stronger schedule. He want to give his son the best opportunity to get better before he entered HS next season. The father of this kid also stated that his child was even thinking about quitting prior to joining my club. Here is my take on this, and I agree with Ranger. Kids will go where they feel is the best situation for them. I'm one that will not recruit a kid from another team or club, but if a child wants to wrestle for me vs him thinking about quitting, I will take him. This only helps wrestling in the long run. Keeps kids on the mat and hopefully they will go on to wrestle in HS. I do not have a problem coaching a kid that will never wrestle for our HS. It's about helping and teaching kids. Just my opinion!!!

[dutch 178]

I agree with bearcats coach. I will coach any kid that is willing to put in the time to get better. I could care less what high school a kid plans on attending. I also have a son that is a middle wrestler. Being a dad and a coach I am willing to put my son in the best situation for him. I think going to a team that has quality coaches and drill partners is a must. Having kids in the room that can push each other is the key to having success in this sport. As far as recruiting I think kids and parents want to be in a program that they feel will be best for them. Rather they like the coaches, the kids on the team, or just the school colors. The point is that there are a lot of quality programs to choose from. We as coaches should be doing this for the kids and not our egos.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

If I may, I'm quite sure that bigedcoach meant simply what he said. River City is a club that feeds St. X. Recruiting starts early, more power to u if u can get away with it. "U, is meant in the generic term." This will probably get criticized, and that's ok. Not everyone has the luxury of pretty much hand picking a team. Trust me, if I could do it I would too.

I can guarantee you that the coaches at River City or St.X are not recruiting or handpicking as you like to call it. Most kids or parents who can afford to go to schools like X or Trinity already have it set in their minds years ahead of sports becoming a factor. I have seen kids who went on to numerous different high schools after being at River City. Believe me that there is not a single coach asking existing wrestlers to come to the program, it is more of people seeing what the program has to offer, what they have accomplished, what they will continue to strive in, and the goals and expectations that are set at that program. Parents and kids come to River City looking to be a part of a great program, River City does not go around looking for wrestlers. "Build it and they will come". simple as that. Why wouldnt you put your kids in a position to better themselves, River City is presently the premier program in the Louisville area, and look at the great education and opportunities offered at X 99% go on to college, some of the highest test scores, over 600 students on honor roll last semester one of the elite schools in the entire state. Who wouldnt want that?

[Mike Frankrone 20]

I've been with River City for 5 years and I can vouch that the only wrestlers they get are the ones that decide to walk thru their doors to wrestle. Absolutely no recruiting what-so-ever! Tyler Frankrone, a walk in! Their success is strictly from the hard work of their Coaches and the wrestlers that been with their program! Theirs always a negative mind running around that can't give credit where credit is due.

[EMS Coach Cardwell 17]

I believe the original question was "what was meant by the River City comment?" The general impression one would get is when you are associated (a feeder) with a private school (St. X) your have the advantage of being able to recruit. Nobody questioned ethics or integrity. No need to investigate something that private schools are allowed to do. You guys are the ones who immediately got defensive. I even admitted if I had that kind of possibility, I would definately.explore it. You want credit, here is some credit. River City is a good program. See, I think you guys are swell. Why do people feel like if your not kissing their rear, your disrespecting them. Quit being so #$*&?@ sensitive.

[Mike Frankrone 20]

D.W. what program are you with?

[Mike Calhoun 49]

I believe the original question was "what was meant by the River City comment?" The general impression one would get is when you are associated (a feeder) with a private school (St. X) your have the advantage of being able to recruit. Nobody questioned ethics or integrity. No need to investigate something that private schools are allowed to do. You guys are the ones who immediately got defensive. I even admitted if I had that kind of possibility, I would definately.explore it. You want credit, here is some credit. River City is a good program. See, I think you guys are swell. Why do people feel like if your not kissing their rear, your disrespecting them. Quit being so #$*&?@ sensitive.

Where do you get your info from? In no way are private schools allowed to recruit, same way the public schools are not allowed to. There is no such thing as an athletic scholarship nor is any one allowed to pay someones tuition if they are not directly related to that student.

[Mike Frankrone 20]

This is hilarious. Tyler Frankrone has been getting recruited by public high schools for wrestling and football in the area for the last 2 years. Not one private school has approached me about Tyler!

[ynss 3]

This is hilarious. Tyler Frankrone has been getting recruited by public high schools for wrestling and football in the area for the last 2 years. Not one private school has approached me about Tyler!

I have seen this at the middle school level in NKY as well. Middle school wrestling being approached by high school wrestling programs asking if they would open enroll to their school so they can wrestle for them.

I believe the transition from MS to HS is the place to move your kid where it best fits them.

[EMS Coach Cardwell 17]

In no way did I insinuate that private schools pay athletes. I do however know that recruiting is done in the private school sector. When someone pays tuition to a school, for the most part, the KHSAA can't touch them. Once again, if this was offered to me, I would use it to my advantage. Tyler is a great kid, I have no beef with him or the guys at River City or St. X. As a matter of fact, my old high school Coach was the same Coach that won several team State Championships at St. X in the 90's. Coach Q has definately done a great job. If River City or St. X has NEVER recruited an athlete, then my apologies.

[Mike Frankrone 20]

I would put my son's reputation as wrestler on the line to guarantee not one kid on River City's team was sought after or recruited!