Why isn't state going to be seeded?

[Team1 5]

Why isn't state tournament going to be seeded? So stupid. 

Edited January 28 by Team1
Wrong

[Jimbobert 15]

Great question. I have no clue. Kentucky hates wrestling, or is incompetent. It's the dumbest thing 

[PPmothman 8]

All they need to do is seed the ones like middle school. The KHSAA just don’t care. 

[DrBaker 497]

It’s a sport looking for a champ. The other spots are luck of the draw. 

[WolfpackPride 0]

Is it not seeded with regional champs vs. fourth from regions anymore? Believe that was the system from last year...

[DrBaker 497]

It is set up that way, but the 3rd round is when the number 1s from each region meet. It’s all random. Could be the top 2 guys in the quarters. 

[pin4thewin 33]

I feel that the best system to do it and also keep it simple at the same time would be to seed the 8 region champs. As nice as it would be to further seed the tournament this keeps it straightforward.

[thegreatgatsby 23]

23 minutes ago, pin4thewin said:

I feel that the best system to do it and also keep it simple at the same time would be to seed the 8 region champs. As nice as it would be to further seed the tournament this keeps it straightforward.

State was seeded in 2021.  All 8 wrestlers were seeded regardless of their region finish.  It can be done.  Seed the 8 Region Champs and keep the standard draw format.  The 1 seed will be on top of the bracket and face a 4th place finisher from a different region.  2 seed on the bottom, etc..  I could do it within a day of regions being completed.

[Jimbobert 15]

57 minutes ago, pin4thewin said:

I feel that the best system to do it and also keep it simple at the same time would be to seed the 8 region champs. As nice as it would be to further seed the tournament this keeps it straightforward.

How does it keep it straightforward?

I feel like seeding it would do that.

[pin4thewin 33]

6 minutes ago, Jimbobert said:

How does it keep it straightforward?

I feel like seeding it would do that.

Yes, that's what I mean. I worded that weirdly but I am saying that it would be more straightforward if we only seed the 8 region champs. That way we don't see the best 2 guys in the state in the 3rd round. IMO it should be done the same as middle school is done.

[gator1 32]

So how can we get this changed?  It's not too late, and these kids deserved an opportunity for the fairest and most accurate outcome, even if it's a little more work for coaches.  I'd also like to see the best state finals possible, not a bunch of lopsided wins. 

21 hours ago, DrBaker said:

It’s a sport looking for a champ. The other spots are luck of the draw.  

This is just silly.  Every sport at every level is looking for a champ in the playoffs, you still seed.

[GentleBeard 145]

I'm a techno-idiot, but I have to believe that if people use track, then the criteria is already stored in the system.  Can't they use that stored criteria to seed everyone?  Upsets will happen and maybe there are some imperfections, but it would be a travesty to see another Trent Johnson vs Bryce Sheffer kind of match in the quarters.  

[DrBaker 497]

1 hour ago, gator1 said:

So how can we get this changed?  It's not too late, and these kids deserved an opportunity for the fairest and most accurate outcome, even if it's a little more work for coaches.  I'd also like to see the best state finals possible, not a bunch of lopsided wins. 

This is just silly.  Every sport at every level is looking for a champ in the playoffs, you still seed.

I believe in seeding. Track is already set up like that. Track can seed it in seconds and be really accurate. 

[Bk3 4]

Would you have to make a case to the khsaa to change the format so that state is seeded? 

[Jimbobert 15]

34 minutes ago, Bk3 said:

Would you have to make a case to the khsaa to change the format so that state is seeded? 

We should try something, these kids deserve it 

[Elite Training Center KY 37]

I completely understand why someone would want seeding. A year ago I would 100% agree. I moved to Iowa right before season and have finally got to be up to date on a state that "loves wrestling" and I can say that Iowa wrestling is a joke DUE TO SEEDING. Coaches are doing everything in their power to protect kids seeds so everyone is ducking each other after the second or third week of season. I watched a rivalry dual of 2 pretty tough teams and 80% of the matches were 2nd and third string kids. I asked the coach why and they straight up said "we have to protect seeds for state". NCAA did the same thing. I don't blame the coaches, end of year is what matters for most of these kids. 
 

I can say as a fan AND coach I enjoy the Kentucky season much more than Iowa season because KY kids aren't afraid to wrestle each other. We are also not as far behind as a lot of people think. Numbers is the number one issue with Kentucky, we just need more schools with wrestling. 

[Parrott Wing 1]

8 hours ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

I completely understand why someone would want seeding. A year ago I would 100% agree. I moved to Iowa right before season and have finally got to be up to date on a state that "loves wrestling" and I can say that Iowa wrestling is a joke DUE TO SEEDING. Coaches are doing everything in their power to protect kids seeds so everyone is ducking each other after the second or third week of season. I watched a rivalry dual of 2 pretty tough teams and 80% of the matches were 2nd and third string kids. I asked the coach why and they straight up said "we have to protect seeds for state". NCAA did the same thing. I don't blame the coaches, end of year is what matters for most of these kids. 
 

I can say as a fan AND coach I enjoy the Kentucky season much more than Iowa season because KY kids aren't afraid to wrestle each other. We are also not as far behind as a lot of people think. Numbers is the number one issue with Kentucky, we just need more schools with wrestling. 

I agree. It sucks to see tough matches go down in the quarters, but then we get dodging and ducking and I'd rather see the top guys go at it throughout the year to actually propel the level of wrestling in Kentucky forward to new heights rather than ducking. Only way to get better is to wrestle tough guys and wanting to face those challenges head on, I've seen top guys from a weight below that have great mindsets bump up and risk their perfect record against a top guys but it tests their metal and shows them where they can improve. With the seeding region champs that doesn't really work out all the time because then you get kids from very week regions getting seeded over someone that is head and shoulders better than them but lost in the finals or semis of a tough region with 2-4 of the top guys. Ultimately if we want Kentucky wrestling to grow and develop the depth that some of the better states around us have we need to let these top kids clash and keep improving.

[grappler-of-old 44]

20 hours ago, gator1 said:

So how can we get this changed?  It's not too late, and these kids deserved an opportunity for the fairest and most accurate outcome, even if it's a little more work for coaches.  I'd also like to see the best state finals possible, not a bunch of lopsided wins. 

This is just silly.  Every sport at every level is looking for a champ in the playoffs, you still seed.

1.  First thing that has to happen is that all results must be put in, and be put in relatively quickly along with updating the records portion of track.  

2.  KHSAA must require this, and have consequences for not doing so like in other sports. 

3.  A criteria must be set up that rewards who you wrestled and defeated. 

4. This is my opinion.  But only the regional champions need to be seeded.  Even if the top 2 are from the same region they are on opposite ends of the bracket and reduces skewed results. Then 1 vs 4 and 2 Vs 3 from other regions. 

[119Rider 61]

What GOO said. Until results are maintained fully, this is a mute point. Dodging already occurs by some schools and it ends up biting them in the arse later. Just wrestle and test yourself. College coaches aren't looking for perfect records. They are looking to see how many challenges you have overcome.

[70s wrestler 0]

I agree with Elite training's post 100%. It's been a few years, but I saw the same running. Avoiding competition in KY MS. 

However, this entire debate could be satisfied if we wrestled to true 2nd. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

1 hour ago, 70s wrestler said:

I agree with Elite training's post 100%. It's been a few years, but I saw the same running. Avoiding competition in KY MS. 

However, this entire debate could be satisfied if we wrestled to true 2nd. 

Wrestling a true second will do 2 things.  Require wrestling after the finals and take away from the excitement of the state finals. 

Plus how fair is it for a kid who just lost a state final to wrestle again to get 2nd. 

I am not a fan of true second. 

[Parrott Wing 1]

Agree completely GOO and I've never heard or seen any state run a true second at the state tournament at the high school level either. Coming from someone that lost in the state finals, as a high school kid that's a lot to take in, then to have to turn around and wrestle a true 2nd would be brutal.

[Elite Training Center KY 37]

17 minutes ago, Parrott Wing said:

Agree completely GOO and I've never heard or seen any state run a true second at the state tournament at the high school level either. Coming from someone that lost in the state finals, as a high school kid that's a lot to take in, then to have to turn around and wrestle a true 2nd would be brutal.

Indiana use to do true second for middle school (maybe they still do idk) and It was terrible. Just get better and don't lose in quarters is all I can say. Realistically what's the difference between second and third.

[Raiders Wrestling 62]

  When the Covid Semi-State and the really State went on yes there was seeding. But you seen at Regionals and Semis once a kid made the next tourney some would foriet out so it wouldnt hurt seeding at the next round. Trackwrestling doesnt get seeding correct all the time. So I am sure there would be more complaints about which 1 should be the 1 at state and who should be 8th of course some are without a doubt, so then the argue would happen over 4-6 or whatever. But coaches will fight about it for sure.  If you dont seed you have no need for a seeding meetings or complaints other than the same one why didnt we seed either all or #1s. Maybe easier to deal with one big complaint rather than hundreds of different complaints over 14 weights. Just a thought we have all ran into poor seeding in the past and will again. 

[PPmothman 8]

I understand the issue with teams ducking out of matches for seeding. No one wants to go to a dual and see that. However, that’s a small amount of teams. Really you’re talking about Louisville, Lexington and Northern Ky. Right now Paducah, Union, Great crossing and Johnson Central are all wrestling the majority of their matches out of state. It’s not to avoid competition. It’s to get tougher matches. There is no reason for them to wrestle any instate tournaments. If they did seed the regional champs you might see those teams enter a couple in state tournaments to get criteria not avoid it.