KY State Duals at Campbell County

[plantmanky1 58]

As someone who was there yesterday and who had a child wrestling, I have to say that I agree with the original poster.  Yesterday was a joke.  CC brought a majority of their middle school team, which is fine, if they are wrestling kids that have the same amount of experience and are similar in size.  The actual youth that were involved in this tournament did get their asses handed to them and it was wrong and extremely discouraging for not only the kids but for the parents as well.  I know from talking to some of the parents that there was a 2nd grade, 1st year wrestler who wrestled a 12 year old who had 6 years of experience.  Where and why would anyone find this acceptable?  How in the world would anyone expect that to be a fair match?  There were several wrestlers from CC and from SK would were wrestling kids they should have never been paired up with.  I get it, it's all based off of weight, but there is a difference between a 2nd grader who weighs 96 pounds and is 4'8 and a 13 year old who weights 96 pounds and is 5'4.  There were MANY unhappy parents and coaches that were involved in this and to be honest, for duals next year my kid won't be signed up for it.  I understand that every match they can't be paired up with someone who is their exact match in height and weight, and I'm not that kind of parent who automatically screams that things are unfair and poorly ran when their kid doesn't do well,  but lets try to be a little more reasonable here.  And, to boot, the older kids were laughing at these poor younger kids coming out onto the mat to wrestle.  As a coach, teach your kids to have some sportsman-like respectable conduct for crying out loud.

 

I know that anyone who runs one of these puts in a lot of hard work and dedication, and I know the CC Wrestling staff is top notch, but, I just think this made them look like idiots.  Maybe next time they have a "youth" dual, they should just bring their middle school team and let their youth compete with actual youth and not kids almost twice their age and if the match is clearly unfair and you know they are going to get pinned in under 5 seconds....don't even have them wrestle.

 

 

You knew about the weight classes before the event correct?  You did read the information that said it was for kids 12 and under right?

 

If you were so upset with it why did you wrestling in it in the first place?  Why wait till after the event to bring up your grievances with the event?  I know why, most on this forum know why.  I wont call you out on it cause its not necessary.  

[IWIN 49]

I know very little about the format of youth duals, so I am finding this particular thread very insightful. I know that at youth tournaments that the kids are broken up by weight and age, thus mutliple champs at similar weights. But for duals if I am understanding correctly, it is strictly by weight and any age can wrestle any age as long as they were 12 or under by 1/1/2014. I am getting it, or have I misunderstood something?

[sbfraz 8]

IWIN,

You are correct.

[IWIN 49]

Thanks sbfraz. Seems to me, if this is the standard format that is used, and everyone knew what it was coming in, there isn't really anything to fuss about. Obviously with such a wide variety of ages, there will be potential mismatches. Seems to just be the nature of the beast.

[tiltfor3 20]

Here's the deal: everyone is correct here. Everyone competing knew the deal coming in. Some chose not to enter because of the format. That's cool.

From high school on down, everyone is in agreement that we need/want KY wrestling to improve. It is happening. There are number of high schoolers nationally ranked. The Middle School team is respectable at national tournaments.

Our current leadership comes from CC and we are thankful for him and his family and school that lend their support.

This is our 1st attempt at fielding a Kentucky Youth Team. Actually, we are shooting to field 3 teams. This is the format, weight classes and ages that are used at these tournaments. These are the rules. Get used to it if you want to compete.

If you are doing it right, this is a sport where you have to take some lumps before being a champion.

[raidercoach 51]

_{I think a big kudos needs to go out to CC for attempting to get a state dual tournament going at the youth level.  Having said that, I'll go on record as saying I'm not a huge fan of duals at the youth level.  I'm sure some will blast me for my position, but I just don't like the negative consequences it brings.  First, I've always enjoyed the fact that with our youth tournaments, EVERYONE gets to wrestle.  Thats not the case with dual meets.  When you have 50-60 kids on a team and you announce that only 20 are going to represent their team at a dual, you can pretty much guarantee that there are kids and parents that are going to feel excluded and less a part of their team.  I know many will respond with "tough...that's wrestling".  I don't disagree with that thinking at the middle school and high school levels.  However, at youth we are still just introducing the sport to these kids and families and I really value doing everything we can to ensure the familes feel included in everything we do.}   

 

_{Dual meets as they were set up for this tournament, will always create scenarios of bigger mismatches than our tournaments.  Most of the youth tournaments group kids by 2 year increments, separate the beginners and experienced, and have much smaller weight increments between weight classes.  This obviously groups kids much closer in age, weight, and experience than what was done for this tournament where everyone was grouped in one age group and the weight classes were set in 5lb increments for the most part.  Hence, this is why I have no objection to youth kids who qualify and place for middle school state also competing at youth state.  When as a wrestler will you ever be grouped more closely to your peers than during youth under our format?  However, in the dual format, you could realistically have a first year wrestler who is in the 3rd grade wrestle a middle school state qualifer who is in the 6th grade who weighs almost 5lbs more (maybe more if he's cutting weight to make varsity for his middle school team)....that's not a good situation.  If we go more down the dual path, more coaches are just going to fill their line up with warm bodies just to have a full team.  This will increase the likelihood of major mismatches, which I doubt anyone wants.} 

 

_{I guess I question what we are trying to accomplish with a state dual tournament.  I think it possibly could be great for the kids and families or it could just cause a lot of unwanted drama for everyone.  I know our team elected to skip this tournament for a multitude of reasons to compete in a very tough tourament in Ohio, but I would like to see us iron out the kinks on this thing.  Again, kudos to those who put it together.}      

[raidercoach 51]

I have no idea why my font was so small on that last post!

[tiltfor3 20]

Like, I said~ some chose not to compete because of this. that's cool.

No matter what, 99.9% on here are in agreement of our leadership and that is what got this thread to strike a chord.

[raidercoach 51]

Like, I said~ some chose not to compete because of this. that's cool.

No matter what, 99.9% on here are in agreement of our leadership and that is what got this thread to strike a chord.

 

99.9% might be a little high considering they are the NKY Mafia....but I hear what you are saying 

[bigshow78 1]

Is the youth Ky team selected by grade the wrestler is in or by age?

[chadmack282 1]

Youth are great venue for kids that r willing to take a lump & bruise to get better. Every kid had 5 matches yesterday even if the child lost all 5 matches they got more time on the mat than going 2 & out in a bracket tourny & as long as they did there best the did get s little better & a little tougher ad a wrestler.

Hell I drive 125miles round trip to wrrstling practice just to get myboys beat up !! ;-)

[Keepyourheadup 10]

NKY Mafia.... I love it.... I'm sure if any one else in the state wants to jump in and help at the youth and MS level the so called NKY Mafia would gladly except the help

[tiltfor3 20]

NKY Mafia.... I love it.... I'm sure if any one else in the state wants to jump in and help at the youth and MS level the so called NKY Mafia would gladly except the help

Man, those dudes don't even where the Italian restaurants are.

[IWIN 49]

What type of initiation does one need to go through in order to become part of the NKY Mafia? I could be a hinchman for Roth. He seems poised to be the next Boss.

The dude has got inside connections if you know what I mean!

[tiltfor3 20]

There's a dinner meeting in Newport at Nuova Villa Tammaro to get the details.

~Pete Clemensa

[IWIN 49]

Ahhhh, how savvy. Meeting at a Mexican restaurant, I love it!

[raidercoach 51]

There's a dinner meeting in Newport at Nuova Villa Tammaro to get the details.

~Pete Clemensa

 

On your drive down, you might want to bust a U-turn on the Brent Spence Bridge to make sure you shake off any irate Eastern Ketucky coaches or parents from tailing you.  I'd also check the bathrooms for any guns taped behind the toilets just to be sure. 

[JDamron 4]

I don't see what all the crying is about. If you showed up at the event with a 95lb 8 year old you knew there was a chance he would wrestle a 12 year old 95lb kid. Quit your crying!! I wish I would have known about this event. I would have made a attempt to bring my kids.

I think this is a great way to move te sport forward and find some quality matches.i hope to see youth duals catch on in the state!!

[Bandwagon 0]

There was some good wrestling yesterday, but disappointed the Braves (Grant County) team was not there.  Would like to see how there three youth girl hammers would have performed.

[MLee 68]

Thanks C.C. for getting the ball rolling on State Duals.  I wish we had more notice...if so, we would have been there.

 

It's not too early to think about next year.  Ranger and I had a looooong conversation today regarding possible ideas.  I recommended different weight classes.  Although we absolutely do not want to discourage anyone from participating, I think it is odd to punish teams for not having 160, 190, and 230 lbers at the Youth level.  I know the weight classes deterred some teams from attending. 

 

Also, I'm hearing some concerns w/ "elite" kids participating.  I have no issues w/ MS kids participating, as long as they fit the age requirement.  We could offer a Novice division for 1st/2nd year programs and/or B teams.  As mentioned, we don't want to scare kids/parents off and I can't think of a better way to do that than pair a MS stud up w/ an inexperienced kid who's not ready.  It's one thing if it's happening in the practice room....it's another when the spotlight is on them w/ their whole team watching.  I understand that doesn't appeal to my "two men enter, one man leaves" wrestling buddies out there, but please try to remember...not every parent/kid is as psycho as you are!  Most of these kids are still in the trial phase of wrestling. 

 

We also need to do a better job distributing the information.  We didn't hear about this until 2 weeks ago.  Hopefully next year this becomes one of the premier youth tournaments in the state.

[Chris Duke 284]

Thanks C.C. for getting the ball rolling on State Duals.  I wish we had more notice...if so, we would have been there.

 

It's not too early to think about next year.  Ranger and I had a looooong conversation today regarding possible ideas.  I recommended different weight classes.  Although we absolutely do not want to discourage anyone from participating, I think it is odd to punish teams for not having 160, 190, and 230 lbers at the Youth level.  I know the weight classes deterred some teams from attending. 

 

Also, I'm hearing some concerns w/ "elite" kids participating.  I have no issues w/ MS kids participating, as long as they fit the age requirement.  We could offer a Novice division for 1st/2nd year programs and/or B teams.  As mentioned, we don't want to scare kids/parents off and I can't think of a better way to do that than pair a MS stud up w/ an inexperienced kid who's not ready.  It's one thing if it's happening in the practice room....it's another when the spotlight is on them w/ their whole team watching.  I understand that doesn't appeal to my "two men enter, one man leaves" wrestling buddies out there, but please try to remember...not every parent/kid is as psycho as you are!  Most of these kids are still in the trial phase of wrestling. 

 

We also need to do a better job distributing the information.  We didn't hear about this until 2 weeks ago.  Hopefully next year this becomes one of the premier youth tournaments in the state.

This all sounds great.  The other thing I think should be added is age and grade.   IMO I don't see the need for a 7th grader to wrestle in a youth tournament.  It should be K-6 plus the age cut off.

[oldfolkie 2]

As someone who was there yesterday and who had a child wrestling, I have to say that I agree with the original poster.  Yesterday was a joke.  CC brought a majority of their middle school team, which is fine, if they are wrestling kids that have the same amount of experience and are similar in size.  The actual youth that were involved in this tournament did get their asses handed to them and it was wrong and extremely discouraging for not only the kids but for the parents as well.  I know from talking to some of the parents that there was a 2nd grade, 1st year wrestler who wrestled a 12 year old who had 6 years of experience.  Where and why would anyone find this acceptable?  How in the world would anyone expect that to be a fair match?  There were several wrestlers from CC and from SK would were wrestling kids they should have never been paired up with.  I get it, it's all based off of weight, but there is a difference between a 2nd grader who weighs 96 pounds and is 4'8 and a 13 year old who weights 96 pounds and is 5'4.  There were MANY unhappy parents and coaches that were involved in this and to be honest, for duals next year my kid won't be signed up for it.  I understand that every match they can't be paired up with someone who is their exact match in height and weight, and I'm not that kind of parent who automatically screams that things are unfair and poorly ran when their kid doesn't do well,  but lets try to be a little more reasonable here.  

 

then you should have found a tournament that had separate age categories.  many open tourneys have them.  duals do not.  

[Braves coach 82]

Thanks for the compliment from Bandwagon!

Not that anyone cares but my 2 cents:

The Braves are a true youth club. When I heard the format, I knew we could not compete. My goal is to inspire young men and women to love this sport. This format would have done more harm than good at this point. I absolutely loved the idea at first, just would not have worked for us.

[Keepyourheadup 10]

That braves coach has got that team rocking!!!

[Ranger123 43]

Thanks for the compliment from Bandwagon!

Not that anyone cares but my 2 cents:

The Braves are a true youth club. When I heard the format, I knew we could not compete. My goal is to inspire young men and women to love this sport. This format would have done more harm than good at this point. I absolutely loved the idea at first, just would not have worked for us.

I respect your view and approach. You have to do what is best for your team.

But I do have a couple questions, since the CC purple team was characterized as a middle school team and you referred to a "true youth team".

Isn't a youth team defined by age? Only 4 of those kids were even 12 (winning a total of 3 matches). So nearly all 11 and under. Isn't that the definition of youth? Just because they choose to practice and compete mostly with our middle school team, to push themselves and advance in the sport, how does that graduate them from youth.