So what is next?

[bigedcoach 27]

I know I dont coach MS any more but I keep a close tab. Here are a few questions since the state is considering a Middle school athletic association ( I doubt they will but you can never know)

 

1 What will happen to the wrestling association if the state sponsors a middle school wrestling tournament?

2. What will happen to club teams like Fern Creek, River City and others. Im sure that if the state takes over, everything will be ran at the scholastic level.

3. Will there be changes in things like weight classes

 

interesting things could happen if the state gets involved.

[plantmanky1 58]

What part of the state is looking at taking over MS sports?

[dscicle 6]

The KHSAA has reportedly been doing SEVERAL rounds of calculations and what-not. Eventually, they will more than likely take over middle school sports in KY. I know TN, OH, and IN all do this, and several officials I know would like it if the KHSAA did take over.

 

We all know much of what is done in this state concerning athletics is tied to $$$...and from what I've seen with my involvement in athletics here in KY... I will predict within 5 years if not sooner the KHSAA will have taken over Middle School athletics.

[Keepyourheadup 10]

Well that will probely mess things up. Government makes a mess of everything

[kdsmith27 14]

From what i have been getting out of the meeting going on about this, KHSAA does not want anything to do with it. They would loose $$, not make. It's the cost of liaibility and governing the MS sports. Also KY MS/Youth Wrestling Associations are way ahead of the curve in KY with how they are organized. A good person to ask or comment about this would be Adam Lantman. He is very active with the board.

[Nkawtg 137]

Wonder if OURWAY or OAC types will step in?

[Chris Duke 284]

I like the way Middle School is ran.  I wish the youth would take this approach.  Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if an organization like OAC came in and ran a true youth in the state!

[J.W. 21]

I like the way Middle School is ran. I wish the youth would take this approach. Maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea if an organization like OAC came in and ran a true youth in the state!

. The name o the organization is less important than the heart and desire of the people running it. What would you like to see changed?

[Chris Duke 284]

This isn't my first time on this soap box.  IMO our regional tournament is nothing more than a fund raiser and our state tournament is just another tournament.  How can you call someone a state champ if they do not go against the best kids at their weight in their age group?  It is time to make the regional tournament a qualifier for state.  

[Keepyourheadup 10]

One thing I'd like to see changed I'd how the team champ is determined at state. If your Ryle you know your going to win it because you show up with so many kids. I think maybe each team should choose a certain amount of wrestlers to be your point makers. Say 15 kids? That would give alot more clubs a chance to win. Instead of The team that shows up with the most kids has the best chance to win.

This is at the youth level Im talking about

[raidercoach 51]

One thing I'd like to see changed I'd how the team champ is determined at state. If your Ryle you know your going to win it because you show up with so many kids. I think maybe each team should choose a certain amount of wrestlers to be your point makers. Say 15 kids? That would give alot more clubs a chance to win. Instead of The team that shows up with the most kids has the best chance to win.

It's a myth that the Raiders have won state based on having the most kids. They've also averaged the highest points per participant the last few years as well.

[Keepyourheadup 10]

I won't dispute that they have great kids and coach's. Just seems it would more far way of determining team champ.

[raidercoach 51]

One thing I'd like to see changed I'd how the team champ is determined at state. If your Ryle you know your going to win it because you show up with so many kids. I think maybe each team should choose a certain amount of wrestlers to be your point makers. Say 15 kids? That would give alot more clubs a chance to win. Instead of The team that shows up with the most kids has the best chance to win.

This is at the youth level Im talking about

Also, we probably need to get the team scores back before we change how they are computed. The "association" voted to not keep team scores and give team awards at youth state.

One thing I'd like to see changed I'd how the team champ is determined at state. If your Ryle you know your going to win it because you show up with so many kids. I think maybe each team should choose a certain amount of wrestlers to be your point makers. Say 15 kids? That would give alot more clubs a chance to win. Instead of The team that shows up with the most kids has the best chance to win.

This is at the youth level Im talking about

Also, we probably need to get the team scores back before we change how they are computed. The "association" voted to not keep team scores and give team awards at youth state.

[Keepyourheadup 10]

Yea

[raidercoach 51]

. The name o the organization is less important than the heart and desire of the people running it. What would you like to see changed?

One thing I'd like to see changed back is the prevention of kids who place at middle school state from competing at youth state. I haven't seen the results, but I think 4 or 5 kids that placed at the 70lb weight class at middle school are youth aged kids. There could have been some great competition at the youth tournament amongst these kids, but now they're forced to sit and watch. I just don't understand taking opportunities away from kids to compete against other kids of the same age and weight.

[IWIN 49]

Raidercoach, just a question, not an arguement. Would u feel the same if a 7th grade kid placed at high school State, and came back and competed the next year at the middle school level?

[Wky 25]

It's hard to call it a state championship when your not allowing kids that are eligible to participate .

[Bluesdad 73]

One thing I'd like to see changed back is the prevention of kids who place at middle school state from competing at youth state. I haven't seen the results, but I think 4 or 5 kids that placed at the 70lb weight class at middle school are youth aged kids. There could have been some great competition at the youth tournament amongst these kids, but now they're forced to sit and watch. I just don't understand taking opportunities away from kids to compete against other kids of the same age and weight.

I agree. If their 12 and under I think they should be eligible to compete. I think Holub and maybe Horton are the ones that wouldn't be eligible by age but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure the rest of the 70lbers are under 12 but again I could be wrong. I know Blue didn't place but hes only 9. So if he would've placed he would have to sit it out as a 9 year old by only a few months. So next year (if he places which I think he will) he would have to sit out as a 10 year old. That would suck.

[raidercoach 51]

Raidercoach, just a question, not an arguement. Would u feel the same if a 7th grade kid placed at high school State, and came back and competed the next year at the middle school level?

 

Absolutely.  There is no harm in letting a kid who has earned the right to wrestle both to do so. 

[raidercoach 51]

I agree. If their 12 and under I think they should be eligible to compete. I think Holub and maybe Horton are the ones that wouldn't be eligible by age but I could be wrong. I'm pretty sure the rest of the 70lbers are under 12 but again I could be wrong. I know Blue didn't place but hes only 9. So if he would've placed he would have to sit it out as a 9 year old by only a few months. So next year (if he places which I think he will) he would have to sit out as a 10 year old. That would suck.

 

I'm only speculating because I don't have the data, but I bet this new rule only impacts a couple of weights.  It would be very rare to get a kid that is youth aged that can place at middle school state at weight classes above 80lbs.  One solution would be if the middle school people don't want this problem is they can just eliminate the 70 and 75 lb weight classes from middle school.  I don't like this solution, but it would probably solve what they are trying to solve.  Just looking around the state and specifically Northern Kentucky, there are a ton of stud youth kids from 65-75lbs.  This year at middle school state, all 4 of the kids in the semifinals were from Northern Kentucky and 3 of them were youth aged.  Not to mention, there were some hammers that didn't even qualify to state because of the depth up here.  I know of at least one placer at 75 that is youth aged.      

[MLee 68]

This isn't my first time on this soap box.  IMO our regional tournament is nothing more than a fund raiser and our state tournament is just another tournament.  How can you call someone a state champ if they do not go against the best kids at their weight in their age group?  It is time to make the regional tournament a qualifier for state.  

I don't think the #'s warrant a qualifer yet, but we're getting close.  I also don't think regionals are a good qualifier when some regions are significantly bigger and more developed.  I'd prefer to scratch regions and appoint a few established youth tournaments as qualifiers, similar to Tournament of Champions.  At least until the smaller regions get their #'s up.

 

I think the best solution to making the tournament more competitve is 16 man brackets and don't prohibit MS placers from attending.      

[JCB 2]

I don't think the #'s warrant a qualifer yet, but we're getting close.  I also don't think regionals are a good qualifier when some regions are significantly bigger and more developed.  I'd prefer to scratch regions and appoint a few established youth tournaments as qualifiers, similar to Tournament of Champions.  At least until the smaller regions get their #'s up.

 

I think the best solution to making the tournament more competitve is 16 man brackets and don't prohibit MS placers from attending.      

 

That was the original design of the elementary regional tournaments. They were to be 6 regional tournaments throughout the state on different weekends and to be eligible to wrestle the elementary state tournament a youth needed to wrestle one of them.  In addition, this would give the elementary programs kind of an elementary season.  With the 5 to 10 year plan to be you would have to place in one of the regional to quality for state and you would be seeded based on overall tournament score.  (TOC) “Wheels on the bus go round and round.”

[raidercoach 51]

JCB,

You are correct...it feels like we keep fighting over the same things which brings up the real problem with our youth association. We need to work together to create a constitution filled with bylaws that are created to help us hit our goals as an association. We always fight over the same issues with every new crop of coaches and parents get involved with our sport. Then they move on to middle school and high school and the new crop behind them fight over the same things....it is insanity by definition.

Instead of everyone fighting over team scores, regional qualifiers, weight classes, blah, blah, blah, we need to decide what we want to accomplish as an association? I've maintained our goals should be very different from those at middle school. We are introducing this sport to families, many of whom are deciding if our product is worthy of their time, money, and effort. We lose kids every year because parents don't like the disorganization at tournaments and other reasons that don't have anything to do with what we always fight over. Has anyone lost a good wrestler to another sport because a family disagrees with 10% rule? Probably not.

It appears a lot of people want to make the youth state tournament more competitive and let's face it, more prestigious to win by having set weight classes and regional qualifiers. I think that would be great, but it will come at a cost of preventing kids from experiencing the spectacle of state, which I believe helps grow the sport. Are we at the point where making the state tournament more competitive is more important than continuing the growth? I don't know, but we should answer that question before we turn our 1000 kid state tournament at the horse park into a 200 kid tournament at a middle school gym.

[raidercoach 51]

Oh and those giving grief to Ranger, I've been there! I will say this though: he's very intelligent, he's done more for wrestling in this state than just about anyone, he means well, and he is a really nice guy. He is in a thankless job and probably only hears complaining 99% of the time. In his position it is hard to decipher between who really are committed to improving things and who just want to whine, especially on a message board. My advice would be to talk to him face to face. You'll find right away that he's a good dude. So leave Poobah alone for a while so he can get some new rankings out.

[Bluesdad 73]

I 100% think we need a different set up for our youth state tournament. I like the way WV holds there's. 16 men brackets that have the top 8 seeded I believe. This way you have true state champions. Have a few(say 5-8) qualifying tournaments and no regionals. Seed according to record and head to head match ups. I know there's problems with all ideas. But this is the way WV holds there's and they very rarely have any problems. I also think the awards need to be a little better. I really like the middle school awards there nice and also a bracket. But this is just my opinion.