Seeding Question

[indyman189 1]

ok if wrestler A and wrestler B are 1-1 against each other who would be determined as the higher seed in the regional tournamnet

[danmoody 1]

Typically, the most recent win is what decides the argument.  Sometimes, placing in tournaments (if one wrestler placed higher than the other at the same tournaments) and/or common opponents can also be factored into the equation.

[tc125 0]

if either of those criteria dont solve it, then record gets thrown into the equation.

[cougars_119 0]

what about the points that were scored in each..like if wrestler A won 12-4 the first time and wrestler B won 7-5 the second. wouldnt they give it to wrestler A

[dinubus 2]

No, he lost the second one.  However, should Wrestler A have won the first one 12-4 and then was leading the second match say 10-1 when he got caught on his back and pinned, then maybe there would be discussion.  However, in both scenarios, wrestler B would most likely receive the seed as the most recent winner.

[tc125 0]

No, he lost the second one.  However, should Wrestler A have won the first one 12-4 and then was leading the second match say 10-1 when he got caught on his back and pinned, then maybe there would be discussion.  However, in both scenarios, wrestler B would most likely receive the seed as the most recent winner.

i always thought it wrestlers were 1 and 1 or even 2 and 2, then it went to different scenarios like common opponents, or lastly records. i didnt know that how recent the wins were ever mattered.

[grappler-of-old 44]

i always thought it wrestlers were 1 and 1 or even 2 and 2, then it went to different scenarios like common opponents, or lastly records. i didn't know that how recent the wins were ever mattered.

I've heard the most recent win argument, but to me that is a ridiculous argument.  What if it happened in the same day?  Wrestler A beats Wrestler B in 1st round of a tourney then they meet for 3rd and wrestler B win.  And both wins are by one point.  If this is the case wrestler B better try not to wrestle A again that year if possible. (I don't subscribe to this idea but others would). 

I would think that coaches at seeding meeting have more common sense than this.  There must be better criteria than that.  I personally would have to look at their overall season.  Who they beat, and who they lost to.  Then make an intelligent decision.

[wrestlejoe 1]

There is a specific set of seeding criteria that the KHSAA has put forth for Regional seeding.  Below is the list from the web site.

1.  Head to Head Competition

2.  Record against common opponents

3.  Contestant with better overall record

4.  Contestant with exceptional record against acknowledged strong competition

5.  Returning champion or runner-up in same weight class

[grappler-of-old 44]

There is a specific set of seeding criteria that the KHSAA has put forth for Regional seeding.   Below is the list from the web site.

1.  Head to Head Competition

2.  Record against common opponents

3.  Contestant with better overall record

4.  Contestant with exceptional record against acknowledged strong competition

5.  Returning champion or runner-up in same weight class

Not completley true wrestlejoe;  they are recomendations; Below is what the rules state.

REGIONAL SEEDING REGULATIONS AND REGIONAL WEIGH-INS

The Regional Committee member of the KHSAA Wrestling Advisory Committee shall chair the seeding committee

meeting. He/she should also be assisted by the regional manager, but the Committee member shall be responsible

for adherence to KHSAA regulations.

The Regional Committee member shall ensure a smooth and expedient meeting of the coaches. The manager

and/or Advisory Committee should contact Julian Tackett of the KHSAA if there are any issues that need

clarification during the meeting.

For 2007-2008, those Regional Committee members are:

Region 1

[Mathound 4]

Usually if they are even head to head, then it will come down to the wrestler with the better winning percentage. (This usually comes after a long drawn out discussion about common opponents but this is almost impossible to agree upon).

[Ranger123 43]

Usually if they are even head to head, then it will come down to the wrestler with the better winning percentage. (This usually comes after a long drawn out discussion about common opponents but this is almost impossible to agree upon).

Yeah, common opponents usually gets very ugly, with coaches digging through piles of scorebooks looking for a win against a kid that may have beaten the other guy.  I was in a seeding meeting at the Region 5 tournament one year and we must have taken 45 minutes to an hour to finish one bracket while the coaches searched for that magical common opponent.

[wrestlejoe 1]

Agree... the list above does say "May" and "serve as a guide"... but as others have already said... it's difficult enough to get coaches through a seed meeting without trying to have them actually agree on a set of criteria... I would recommend using the steps... but I'm just an observer of the process...

[grappler-of-old 44]

Questions like these and the proof of how difficult it is to seed tourneys, especially the regional tourney.  Is proof that there needs to be some sort of registration process. 

If we the wrestling community had a site where all result must be turned in.  The seeding process could be done prior to a seeding meeting. 

The seeding meeting would just be a verification of the seeds. 

Every coach would have access to these results.  Just to keep an eye on other coaches.  I'm not implying that there are dishonest coaches, but sometimes they do make mistakes. 

Could you imagine.  Showing up to a seeding meeting.  Recieving all the individual records of every participant in the tourney.  Wins, losses, and who they wrestled. Having the seeds already set out, verificaion occuring with the coaches.  Making the changes needed then leaving in probably less than an hour.  All this could be done with little effort by the coaches in entering result after each wrestling event. 

Is there a reason this can't be done?  I'm sure that someone smarter than myself could come up with a program that could do this, and then have it on an independant website. 

Wrestling mat $8,000, uniforms $50, coaches salary $3,000.  A sytem like this PRICELESS

[tc125 0]

lol i like the reference. and yeah im sure this could be done, and it could seed people you enter into it automatically. say certain kids are going to be at a certain tournament, all you would have to do is enter their names, and it could spit out a seeding suggestion, and the reason why. say head to head for example. it couldnt be that difficult in todays day and age.

[Charger Coach 14]

I want to know what coaches get paid $3000?! lol  If that's the case, then Jeff. Co. public schools way under pay their coaches.  Now to your point GOO, I agree the seeding rules being a little "hazy" lead to tourneys being difficult to seed.  I've always thought regular season tourneys were a lot tougher to seed than the regionals.  At the regional seeding meeting all schools must have a representative present at the meeting in order to enter the tourney.  It can be time consuming, but at least everything is decided then and all coaches have a chance to plead their case.  I think almost all the regions go with the guidelines suggested by the KHSAA.  Some might set up their own criteria.  The guidelines tend to lead to less debate especially if for example wrestler A beat wrestler B and wrestler B beat wrestler C, but wrestler C lost to wrestler A.  That tends to be the only sticking point, but if all coaches agree to follow the guidelines, then the regional seeding meetings tend to go much quicker and easier.  Now the regular season tourneys are the ones that are really a pain.  Most of the time not all coaches are present, especially if they are traveling a long distance to attend the tourney, so a seeding "committee" sets the seeds.  That's when you get wrestlers seeded above other wrestlers that shouldn't be, etc.  It's no fault of the committee because often times they don't have all the necessary info to set the seeds appropriately.  That's when the real fun begins because when all the coaches have their meeting in the morning before the tourney, they then try to argue their case for their wrestlers to be seeded higher, the meeting drags on much longer than it should, new brackets have to be drawn, etc.  I remember at the Dragon last year a coach brought his official scorebook with him and for about 7 of the 14 weight classes, he was arguing that his wrestler should be seeded higher than other wrestlers and had his scorebook as proof that his wrestler beat wrestlers seeded above his.  He even tried to argue a 4/5 seed.  I mean what's the difference?  All unseeded wrestlers are drawn in blindly and whether you're a 4 or 5 seed, you still have to face #1 in the semis!  He was also arguing to have a wrestler seeded who wasn't.  That wouldn't be so bad, but the wrestler actually had a better draw than if he was seeded.  It was ridiculous.  Ever wonder why tourneys get started way after their set time?  Well this is a big reason why.

[385 109]

example wrestler A beat wrestler B and wrestler B beat wrestler C, but wrestler C lost to wrestler A.

Ahhh... the old Texas beat Oklahoma beat Texas Tech beat Texas ordeal...

how the heck does Oklahoma end up in the National Championship? Texas lost on a last second play and Texas smashed Oklahoma!

[The Bear 0]

It doesn't matter because Tebow would smash both of em'.

[ForeverFearless 0]

sorry to disagree but the Big 12 is way tougher than the SEC

[Charger Coach 14]

Not to get off subject, but I have to disagree on the Big 12 being way tougher than the SEC.  This bowl season, Texas Tech was well beaten by Ole Miss, Texas needs a last second touchdown to beat an Ohio St. team that was manhandled by USC earlier in the year, Oklahoma St. loses to Oregon and Missouri needs overtime to beat a weak Northwestern team.  Doesn't sound like a much tougher conference to me.

[ForeverFearless 0]

Thats all true but the SEC had some easy draws with teams like Boston College, Iowa, East Carolina, michigan state and way over rated georgia tech and utah who still beat the crimson tide of alabama and south carolina was blown out by Iowa

[Charger Coach 14]

Can't argue with any of that.  I guess the good thing is that although we won't necessarily get to see which conference is better we will get to see which conference's best team is better than the others.  lol

[southern145 3]

160

#8 William Northington PRP

#12 Cameron Broussard SEN

#13 Ross Robinson ST.X

#17 Adam Gunn TRI

#19 Brody O'Leary SOU

#20 Tyler Ford MAN

#23 Lantis Weatherington IRQ

if oleary has only wrestled ford, weatherington, and northington and beat all 3 of them out of these 7 ppl then what should he be seeded at the jefferson county tourney

[grappler-of-old 44]

It would depend on what Seneca, St.X and Trinity have done.

I would think that he would be seeded above the three he defeated.

Unless he has split with one of those three. 

[southern145 3]

hes wrestled each of them once.

weatherington pin 1:07

northington dec 7-4

ford dec 9-2

[grappler-of-old 44]

Man Southern145 are you his PR agent or something?

How you defeat someone does not matter.  As long as you defeated him.