Question...Tap Out?

[Trell9998 6]

So at a meet and kid is close to getting pinned in regular hold that I always see and he taps the opponent and ref stops the match. Kid jumps up and ready to go immediately so he wasn't choking or anything, is this normal? IMO the kid didn't want to get pinned and was up in points and few seconds left. Other teams coach confronts the ref. Kid that tapped won by points. I'm new to this stuff!!

[Zeus 117]

Unfortunately it does happen.  It's up to the ref I believe to judge the situation.  If a kid does tap out while on his back the ref is supposed to award an additional back point to the wrestler on top.

[Old wrestler 92]

10 minutes ago, Zeus said:

Unfortunately it does happen.  It's up to the ref I believe to judge the situation.  If a kid does tap out while on his back the ref is supposed to award an additional back point to the wrestler on top.

Unfortunately, Zeus is right. I remember this scenario playing out at state 2007ish, where a Trinity wrestler tapped, as they were being turned to their back (legal move). Trinity kid ended up narrowly winning the match. 

Im not sure of the best option. Referees are put in a vulnerable situation. Ignore the wrestler and risk a potential injury OR stop the match and reward this type of strategy. 

[naplesme 58]

I say the referee should slap the mat. If a kid taps, even if the danger is real or made up. Slap the mat and this kind of foolishness will end. jm2c

[Zeus 117]

44 minutes ago, naplesme said:

I say the referee should slap the mat. If a kid taps, even if the danger is real or made up. Slap the mat and this kind of foolishness will end. jm2c

Just to play Devil's Advocate, wouldn't that "encourage" more wrestlers to try holds that potentially hurt or choke their opponents?

[Nkawtg 137]

That ref for the Ohio State/Mizzou match sure didn't care that guy was tapping!

[grappler-of-old 44]

20 hours ago, Zeus said:

Just to play Devil's Advocate, wouldn't that "encourage" more wrestlers to try holds that potentially hurt or choke their opponents?

if the kid is really hurt or something of the sort.  The ref can wave away the pin and continue the match.  I have seen this happen.  Is the best way to proceed with this kind of situation in my opinion.

 

[heavy83 15]

I believe the official should try to talk to kid before he automatically stop it  to assess the reason  may help figure out if it is a scam or not.

[Zeus 117]

I think, in high school, this could get a ref in trouble.  The primary concern of the official is the safety of the wrestlers.  All it takes is one kid being choked for too long to become a serious issue.  This might just be one of the cons of sport.

[depperschmidt 140]

IMO if a wrestler taps from being in a legal hold then the match ends just like in MMA if it is an illegal hold match stops and penalty point awarded. real simple.  The thing is to know what you are getting yourself into (wrestling is a tough sport) BEFORE you find yourself in a position/situation (bent up like a pretzel) Most sports come with a certain degree of danger and while many of the injuries can be minimized with rules and equipment there will still always be some regrettable injuries. I do not believe that if a person who gets injured by doing something that is of his own choosing should be able to sue ANYONE else for their own actions. By getting involved in the activity which caused the injury the person in effect makes himself/herself an accessory. Like riding a skateboard down a flight of stairs on the handrail then when things don't go well suing the manufacturer of the skateboard and the builder of the staircase for injuries sustained.

[Zeus 117]

I can agree with that.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I would also like to mention that if you watch the reaction of the coach many times you will know if a kid is hurt or not.

I have seen and been part of running out on the mat when a kid was injured and being pinned or whatever to stop the match.  Coaches know there wrestlers better than anyone and are there to protect them along with coaching them.  When coaching I was willing to lose the match by running on the mat rather than the kid get hurt. 

[chad.greenwell 21]

I ran into this type of situation this weekend, if someone would like to give me some information and remarks, I would appreciate it...

My wrestler gets a take down, awarded 2 points, works up the body and throws a half in, as soon as he turns the opponent the opponent screams and the official stops the match and signals potentially dangerous. I asked him, what was potentially dangerous about a legal move and he responded with "he screamed so I had to stop it". I asked him "does my wrestler at least get back points since he turned him?". The official decided he would give him 1 back point since he stopped the match before he started counting, I asked for 3 since it was a legal move but was denied. Is this correct by the official? 

[take em to the mat 29]

25 minutes ago, chad.greenwell said:

I ran into this type of situation this weekend, if someone would like to give me some information and remarks, I would appreciate it...

My wrestler gets a take down, awarded 2 points, works up the body and throws a half in, as soon as he turns the opponent the opponent screams and the official stops the match and signals potentially dangerous. I asked him, what was potentially dangerous about a legal move and he responded with "he screamed so I had to stop it". I asked him "does my wrestler at least get back points since he turned him?". The official decided he would give him 1 back point since he stopped the match before he started counting, I asked for 3 since it was a legal move but was denied. Is this correct by the official? 

CLARIFIED WHEN A WRESTLER SHALL BE AWARDED PENALTY POINT(S) (5-11-2i): The committee felt that when the defensive wrestler uses unethical techniques to avoid being pinned, the offensive wrestler should not only be awarded the near fall or fall points but should be awarded the appropriate penalty point(s) for that transgression at the next stoppage of the match.

IMO Your wrestler was due 3 near fall. 1-2-3 or 4 count 2+1 5 count 3+1  Unethical is the key word. 

Also you stated the kid was turning to his back with 0 count and again refs opinion he was going to his back it's still 2+1 if in deed he was.

[chad.greenwell 21]

49 minutes ago, take em to the mat said:

CLARIFIED WHEN A WRESTLER SHALL BE AWARDED PENALTY POINT(S) (5-11-2i): The committee felt that when the defensive wrestler uses unethical techniques to avoid being pinned, the offensive wrestler should not only be awarded the near fall or fall points but should be awarded the appropriate penalty point(s) for that transgression at the next stoppage of the match.

IMO Your wrestler was due 3 near fall. 1-2-3 or 4 count 2+1 5 count 3+1  Unethical is the key word. 

Also you stated the kid was turning to his back with 0 count and again refs opinion he was going to his back it's still 2+1 if in deed he was.

Thanks for the input, that was my thoughts also. Should have received at least 2 near fall and 1 penalty point instead of only 1 penalty point and no near fall. Luckily my wrestler won the match and it wasn't an issue, I just wanted to get some clarity on the rule(s) for future knowledge.

[grappler-of-old 44]

If you looked further at 5-11 f thru h you will see.

f:  if a defensive wrestler is injured or bleeding occurs in an imminent near-fall situation or before the two point near fall criteria of a two count have been met, the match will be stopped and a two point near fall awarded. 

g.  same as above but when a 2 point near fall is met a three point near fall will be given

h. same as above but when a 3 point near fall is met a 4 point near fall will be given.

The correct call would have been 2 point near fall. 

[take em to the mat 29]

11 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

If you looked further at 5-11 f thru h you will see.

f:  if a defensive wrestler is injured or bleeding occurs in an imminent near-fall situation or before the two point near fall criteria of a two count have been met, the match will be stopped and a two point near fall awarded. 

g.  same as above but when a 2 point near fall is met a three point near fall will be given

h. same as above but when a 3 point near fall is met a 4 point near fall will be given.

The correct call would have been 2 point near fall. 

oops I stand corrected

[Alf 43]

This a frustrating situation. I had it happened to one of my youth wrestlers this weekend. Took a kid down to his back and the defensive guy started crying so the refs stopped the match after a three count.  My guy had a deep half in and the match was going to be over if it continued. The other coach was  beside himself  because my guy was given 3 points. He thought they should just start over on their feet because his guy had his feelings hurt.  Some of this issue is coaching. Need to teach kids to take their medicine and not squeal because they get tossed to their back. These were little kids (7 and 8) but you have to teach them young that this not a sport for the weak hearted. I was a referee for a very short time a long time ago and had several occasions where a guy cried  out on his back in a legal move and I let the match  play out  because I could tell the guy on his back was safe. He might have been in pain, but was in no risk of being injured. Big difference in my opinion between pain and injury. 

[Zeus 117]

I agree about teaching your wrestlers not to scream just to get off their backs.  Most kids that do it really freak out instead of a plan to get off their back, at least I hope that's the case.  Most young kids don't know anything and need to be taught literally everything, including keeping their composure.  We see kids flip out after losses all the time, some have to be taught not to act like that.  I think this is a similar situation.

Just on a related note, I've seen coaches who had wrestlers who were legitimately slammed and injured by their opponents, who have had their wrestler continue the match for a couple of seconds in order to not take the cheap win.  I have a lot of respect for doing that, obviously if they were losing at the time of the slam.

[grappler-of-old 44]

     I have seen the same Zues. I actually saw it at the state tourney many moons ago.  Kid was slammed by a really good kid (finalist) and coach had him start and stop the match as to not take a chance of a state title from the kid. 

 

     This tapping out and crying and the such comes from kids of this era not knowing how to lose.  We don't keep score at t-ball events, we give participation trophies to all kids in many sports.  We don't teach or youth the respect and tolerance of losing and winning. 

     I was so glad when Goo-Jr. started playing T-ball and his coach told the other teams that when we get three outs against us we will take the field.  If they wanted to bat everyone every inning that was fine but we were not.  He also told them if we strike out we are out, no second chances.  These kids learned the correct way to play the sport and when they got older learned to win and lose. We need to do this with the young wrestlers.  Coaches/Parents don't put up with a temper tantrum when they lose. 

[wildcat2002 190]

This tapping out and crying and the such comes from kids of this era not knowing how to lose.  We don't keep score at t-ball events, we give participation trophies to all kids in many sports.  We don't teach or youth the respect and tolerance of losing and winning. 

- I agree 100%