WHS98 34 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Fanofwrestling i wouldn't say it will never happen because look at how long it took the ncaa in football to realize how STUPID it was not to have a playoff.Now everyone loves the playoffs.If seeding is not important then why the heck does every tournament every week do it ???? is it more work for a committee to seed state?YES,but it is not one tenth of one percent as much work as these kids put in for a chance to be under the lights on the biggest stage in most of their wrestling careers.SORRY I WILL NEVER GET IT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Crazyhorse 42 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 I think the effort it would take to seed the tournament is being over exaggerated ,its 32 kids half the wrestling moms in KY know who the top four kids in the state are in their kids class ,you cant tell me a committee of officials or coaches cannot seed the top four or eight then throw the rest around the best they can ,I would give extra criteria for previous yrs state champ as someone mentioned ,If 1 guy can rank the whole dang nations High School wrestlers top twenty in every class I think a few guys can rank a state tournament . Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Fanofwrestling i wouldn't say it will never happen because look at how long it took the ncaa in football to realize how STUPID it was not to have a playoff.Now everyone loves the playoffs.If seeding is not important then why the heck does every tournament every week do it ???? is it more work for a committee to seed state?YES,but it is not one tenth of one percent as much work as these kids put in for a chance to be under the lights on the biggest stage in most of their wrestling careers.SORRY I WILL NEVER GET IT Exactly. We have found a way to make it work the last 2 yrs for the MS state tournament seeding the region champs and the others fall in via placement slots (1v4, 2v3). We had some great discussion with about 30 coaches in attendance and providing input and the whole meeting took less than 2 hrs. Trust me Coach McCoy. It can be done. Just need the KHSAA to sign off on it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CCMS_SC 59 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Exactly. We have found a way to make it work the last 2 yrs for the MS state tournament seeding the region champs and the others fall in via placement slots (1v4, 2v3). We had some great discussion with about 30 coaches in attendance and providing input and the whole meeting took less than 2 hrs. Trust me Coach McCoy. It can be done. Just need the KHSAA to sign off on it. Doesn't MS fall under KHSAA now? If they allow it for MS, it will only be time! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
firemans34 33 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Get on board McCoy...quit being a negative Nancy! The hardest thing and the right thing are usually the same thing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halfhalfhalf 121 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 It would take hours and maybe even days to seed the State Tournament. Do I like seeing these matches early on....no. But it would be almost impossible without head to heads and common opponents. Case in point: Ryle wrestles a lot in Ohio. I would bet most of the Western KY schools have not seen them. Johnson Central has only wrestled in KY a handful of times. How would we seed them? It's not as easy as it sounds. Some say we should only seed the Region Champs. How would that work this year at: 106 - Both #1 and #2 are in Region 1 132 - Both #3 and #4 are in Region 6 138 - Both #2 and #3 are in Region 1 182 - Both #1 and #2 are in Region 4 195 - Both #2 and #3 are in Region 4 220 - Both #2 and #4 are in Region 1 This is my arguement. how can you expect someone from WK or a team that is far away to see some of these teams like a ryle, Johnson central, campbell co. That wrestle out of state often. I see this being an issue when it comes down to seeding. For example.. John smith comes into the state as the region champ but is 20-13 with all losses to out of state. How do you seed it if they wrestle a lot out of state... no head to head or common opponents Something that could be looked at is seeding return state placers IF and only if they win their region. Tennessee has done it for years. it has been successful. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halfhalfhalf 121 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Just my 2 sense. Normally don't speak on these topics. I do think that makes our state tournament special because yoU could potentially end up with a 3rd Rd match being a 1 vs. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamesubrown1 1 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Sounds really not good.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jamesubrown1 1 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Sounds really not good.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
coachteater 70 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 The thing about seeding is that no matter how bad we want it, or even if we take the time to do it for them, khsaa is the ones in charge and they don't listen. It's clear they want full control and do not want our opinion or help to grow our sport. I don't believe a coach McCoy is against seeding, I believe he is telling us what the khsaa is going to say. Maybe one day if the administration changes at khsaa, you may see change. But till that point, I believe it's pointless to hope for it. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
halfhalfhalf 121 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 You're absolutely correct!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
depperschmidt 140 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Some have faith that it will happen, others have hope it happens, But there is no love for the KHSAA Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoachBrown 12 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 It is absolutely ridiculous to think Coach McCoy doesn't want to improve the logistical issues we deal with in our state.People get on here hiding behind a username and b$#!h and complain when they have absolutely no idea of the steps it takes to get something accomplished. The KHSAA seems to just defer to the NFHS and call it a day. We have region reps and someone who consults with the KHSAA advisory committee and they never do what the Coaches Association recommends. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 The reality is that the KHSAA won't go along with anything they perceive as more work. Based on what I know about Coach McCoy I'm sure he would get behind anything that improves our sport, but may have some questions about this sort of process. The way we view it with the KSWA is that it is some work and time and it won't be perfect, but we are trying to do what is best for the kids. It is difficult to find head-to-head and common opponents at MS (teams don't travel as much and some of these top kids are wrestling varsity some), but we work through the process and do the best we can. A random draw has a 50/50 shot of putting the 2 best kids together while seeding can definitely improve on that. If we look at 113 for example who in their right mind would place two prior state champs in a bracket where they hit in the quarters? Heck people were talking about not going to the dragon again based on the initial seeding that did stuff like this. So why is it ok at state? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eminent 8 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Well said Ranger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmccoy 4 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 I am for seeding the tournament. It has bit my kids in the butt several times. I apologize if stating facts makes me a negative nancy. My whole point is, several people get on here and demand change and call those that don't make it happen crazy, negative, and not out for what is best for the sport. The problem is those same people have no clue the process it takes or what has been attempted in the past to make these changes. And again Crazyhorse....my shorts are not to tight. I have not worn shorts in a bout 20 years....lol. Get to know me and maybe you will see what I am all about. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
B10grapple 7 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 Honestly I see the concern and reason for the argument. However, where I live the best two teams in the state for bball are not only the same region, but they are in the same town and therefore district. One of the teams typically wins the state or makes the final while the other never makes it out of districts. It is unfortunate but it isn't exactly anything new in any other sport, whether it's amateur or professional. For example, do we really think the best two teams in the NFL are always from opposite conferences? No, but that is what we always get in the superbowl. If you 'seeded' the tournament, you would have to 'reseed' the tournament after the skin assessments wouldn't you? As I recall there were several high profile 'X outs' prior to last years tournament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 I can buy the argument for the way other sports are handled (although I hate using the basketball analogy) EXCEPT why then do we use a random draw. Why not just always match up region 1 v region 2 like other sports do? I believe the random draw is just HOPING that it works out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
depperschmidt 140 Report post Posted January 29, 2015 what I am hearing is this, Even if a seed comittee of Coaches, elected by Coaches ,were to get together and do the work to seed the Tournament. thereby causing the KHSAA no additional work they still would not do it for fear of losing CONTROL. I remember last year when they were going to stop the finals by themselves under the lights that such a firestorm of controvercy erupted, people were talking to their senators, swarming the KHSAA with phone calls and it was being discussed on the radio. The public outrage caused them to change their decision. I relise this topic does not have the same universal support, and as such it will not turn their heads. even though it would be welcomed by most. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHS98 34 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 I would never get on here and demand change because everyone should know this is just a discussion forum.we can only hope that the overwhelming amout of people that believe this is injustice to the kids get their point to the powers that be.Like i said before nobody ever thought the ncaa would have a playoff for football but guess what enough complaints sometimes pays off. I Andy Bindner never will hide behind a screen name when fighting for what is right.If you believe this wrong voice your opinion you never know one day it could happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
cmccoy 4 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 Here is how you make it happen..... Get an Athletic Director to back it and put a proposal in writing and be willing to fight it. Than it goes to the Board of Control for discussion and approval or denial. See.....it's not as easy as the coaches association saying this needs to happen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks Chris. That is good info to have. Do we know if anyone has gone down this path in the past? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TECHnWIN 18 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 Here is how you make it happen..... Get an Athletic Director to back it and put a proposal in writing and be willing to fight it. Than it goes to the Board of Control for discussion and approval or denial. See.....it's not as easy as the coaches association saying this needs to happen. Well lets get on this asap. States in a few weeks. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
WHS98 34 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 Thanks cmccoy for giving us a way to try and get the ball rolling but it will take a coach that has a strong relationship with an AD to possibly get any response. Heck if i brought it up to an AD they would see me as just a disgruntled parent. Thanks for the info Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PinAndWin 64 Report post Posted January 30, 2015 No one would ever think that about you WHS98. lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
