So what is next?

[Ranger123 43]

Raider falls victim to the iphone double post. I agree raider. Had a long talk with your bro about the goals of the youth association. The organization needs well defined and stated goals so we can all get on board (myself included).

[raidercoach 51]

Raider falls victim to the iphone double post. I agree raider. Had a long talk with your bro about the goals of the youth association. The organization needs well defined and stated goals so we can all get on board (myself included).

Darn thing drives me crazy. By the way, congrats on another dominating state tournament.

[Bearcats Coach 94]

I'll give my 2 cents worth.<br />My son won 5 youth titles in the past. His last one was when he was a 5th grader, just turned 10 at the time. He also that same year was MS State runner-up. I let him wrestle in the youth tournament that year because he wanted to wrestle with his teammates (his youth team that he's been with the past 6 years) one more year/one last time. Plus he was a true youth kid. He was 5th grade and was only 10 as I stated, and his little brain acted and thought like a 10 year old. He really didn't get the whole MS placing vs wrestling in youth state back then. He finished 2nd at MS state last year as a 6th grader, but chose not to wrestle at youth state. He has matured enough to know the level of competition is different at both of these events. Now, I'm not saying that youth is second to MS, but he is just realized it's time to move on.<br />Two years later, he won his first MS title this past Saturday (he is 7th grader now), he just did turn 13 a few days, he is still eligible to compete at the youth state tournament. Would it be fair to put my kid in this event. Not saying my kid would win it or that he is all that, but I do feel he is a pretty sound and solid wrestler. My point is, where do we decide who should be wrestling at the youth state. Yes I think is great to get all the kids there to make it very competitive, but the youth league is pretty much a developmental league to get kids interested in the sport of wrestling. I think its great to get these younger kids in the youth state. Its about them. If I was a new a parent and my kid was fairly new to the sport, I don't know that I would want him to face a Ryan Moore or any other kid at that kind of level, competing against my child. Yes I know, you have to eventually make your child understand that they will have to face tough competition to win a big event. Gives them something to work towards (to be the best, you have to beat the best) I think there are other events for this stuff like that. But to get kids involved, to keep kids and parents involved, to make them be excited about wrestling in the youth state is what its all about. I also agree, that there will be a time when we will have to go to a qualifier to get in the youth state. Are where there yet, IDK?! I personally think there needs to be a separation from youth to middle school, especially based on the level of competition per event / per kid. How do we do this???<br />

[Keepyourheadup 10]

I'll give my 2 cents worth.<br />My son won 5 youth titles in the past. His last one was when he was a 5th grader, just turned 10 at the time. He also that same year was MS State runner-up. I let him wrestle in the youth tournament that year because he wanted to wrestle with his teammates (his youth team that he's been with the past 6 years) one more year/one last time. Plus he was a true youth kid. He was 5th grade and was only 10 as I stated, and his little brain acted and thought like a 10 year old. He really didn't get the whole MS placing vs wrestling in youth state back then. He finished 2nd at MS state last year as a 6th grader, but chose not to wrestle at youth state. He has matured enough to know the level of competition is different at both of these events. Now, I'm not saying that youth is second to MS, but he is just realized it's time to move on.<br />Two years later, he won his first MS title this past Saturday (he is 7th grader now), he just did turn 13 a few days, he is still eligible to compete at the youth state tournament. Would it be fair to put my kid in this event. Not saying my kid would win it or that he is all that, but I do feel he is a pretty sound and solid wrestler. My point is, where do we decide who should be wrestling at the youth state. Yes I think is great to get all the kids there to make it very competitive, but the youth league is pretty much a developmental league to get kids interested in the sport of wrestling. I think its great to get these younger kids in the youth state. Its about them. If I was a new a parent and my kid was fairly new to the sport, I don't know that I would want him to face a Ryan Moore or any other kid at that kind of level, competing against my child. Yes I know, you have to eventually make your child understand that they will have to face tough competition to win a big event. Gives them something to work towards (to be the best, you have to beat the best) I think there are other events for this stuff like that. But to get kids involved, to keep kids and parents involved, to make them be excited about wrestling in the youth state is what its all about. I also agree, that there will be a time when we will have to go to a qualifier to get in the youth state. Are where there yet, IDK?! I personally think there needs to be a separation from youth to middle school, especially based on the level of competition per event / per kid. How do we do this???<br />

Well said coach!!! You said what I wanted to say but I just didn't know how to put it.

[Louisville 4]

I think MS place-finishers should be able to compete at youth if they are still age eligible.  We already balance this by placing the youth kids into four separate age divisions (this year: 2000/01, 2002/03, 2004/05 and 2006/07) so that you don't have a 3rd grader competing against a 7th grader at youth state.  If a 5th grader places 4th at MS state, having been beaten out by 7th/8th graders, shouldn't that kid get a chance for a youth state championship by beating kids roughly his own age/grade?

 

Also given the age breakouts, I would like to see youth state as a qualified event with full 16 man brackets.  I understand the issues as outlined by others with regard to large vs small regions, but there has to be a way to make this work.

[Chris Duke 284]

I don't think the #'s warrant a qualifer yet, but we're getting close.  I also don't think regionals are a good qualifier when some regions are significantly bigger and more developed.  I'd prefer to scratch regions and appoint a few established youth tournaments as qualifiers, similar to Tournament of Champions.  At least until the smaller regions get their #'s up.

 

I think the best solution to making the tournament more competitve is 16 man brackets and don't prohibit MS placers from attending.      

 

I like the idea of 16 man brackets.  We just need to give it a try and see how it all plays out.  16 man brackets would give you 40% fewer brackets and would make it more competitive.

 

If you want to make it a YOUTH STATE keep all 7th and 8th graders out regardless of age.  In all other sports its okay to play up just not down.  

 

We are on the right track.  Its time to put the plan into motion.

[raidercoach 51]

16 man brackets will solve making the state tournament more competitive. We cranked out what it would have looked like last year and there would have been some great brackets. The only remaining question is the issue of qualifying tournaments. Using regionals just doesn't make sense yet. Pick four or five tournaments and make kids attend (and possibly place in at least one of them) to qualify for state. I still like including everyone at youth state for now, but that's just my opinion.

[Bearcats Coach 94]

Louisville

I understand your point. I don't disagree, however what if you have a 5th grader that places top 2 in MS State and was beating those 7th and 8th graders. Now he wrestles youth state with his own age group 2000 and 2001 birth year. Yes the age groups are fair based on this only IMO, but the level or skill of competition maybe/could be so far ahead of the other kids.

What do we need to do to make this better for ALL the kids at the youth level (State tournament level)

Just a question? I don't have the right or wrong answer to this. Just trying to brain storm and see what is the best option for all the kids.

[raidercoach 51]

Louisville

I understand your point. I don't disagree, however what if you have a 5th grader that places top 2 in MS State and was beating those 7th and 8th graders. Now he wrestles youth state with his own age group 2000 and 2001 birth year. Yes the age groups are fair based on this only IMO, but the level or skill of competition maybe/could be so far ahead of the other kids.

What do we need to do to make this better for ALL the kids at the youth level (State tournament level)

Just a question? I don't have the right or wrong answer to this. Just trying to brain storm and see what is the best option for all the kids.

There are studs at every level that make it appear unfair watching them hammer the competition. However, this is always the exception. Every time I saw Miguel Merritt wrestle in high school, I thought to myself "this isn't fair". However, it never gets more fair than at the youth level where the kids are guaranteed to be as close in age and weight as it will ever be if they continue to wrestle. At the end of the day, give the kid the choice. Your son elected to skip one year and that is commendable, but that choice my not be for everyone. Congrats by the way! He's a chip off the old block.

[trithis 34]

I would add that most likely the kid that placed 2nd or 4th at MS State, probably already has one...if not more than one, Youth State title. What would they have to prove to himself? I applaude the kids, parents and coaches that realize the kids need to wrestle to the competition that will push the kid, once that has past....move on. Did you see Mark Hall wrestle MS State when he as at Ryle? Nope, but everyone knows he would have won a MS State Title though. He had bigger fish to fry. The Lawson's have bigger fish to fry. I commend them for that. Move up and move on.

[bo ranshaw 4]

I would add that most likely the kid that placed 2nd or 4th at MS State, probably already has one...if not more than one, Youth State title. What would they have to prove to himself? I applaude the kids, parents and coaches that realize the kids need to wrestle to the competition that will push the kid, once that has past....move on. Did you see Mark Hall wrestle MS State when he as at Ryle? Nope, but everyone knows he would have won a MS State Title though. He had bigger fish to fry. The Lawson's have bigger fish to fry. I commend them for that. Move up and move on.

True but at the same time a multiple olympic gold medal athlete is competing in HS just to be apart of the team she grew up with.

[trithis 34]

 

True but at the same time a multiple olympic gold medal athlete is competing in HS just to be apart of the team she grew up with.

There are exceptions to everything. I do agree with raidercoach...it should be up to the kid, parent and coach. IMO...if it were my kid, and he or she were that good at wrestling...I would sit them out. But, everyone should have that choice and not be bashed for making the choice that is best for them.

[Ranger123 43]

I think it comes down to the goal of the event. I think the focus today is growth and numbers. In this case I like the current approach. Yes we hold out a handful of kids but allow many others a better chance at success and taking home a medal. If competition becomes part of the goal then let them make their choice.

[stanmms 4]

Ranger,  I have sent into this forum on several occasions the bylaws from the Youth organization which were also passed along to Kyle Goldsmith but they are MIA.  Can you resurrect them and respost?

 

Mlee is exactly right, as Youth parents move to Middle the same issues are rehatched that were dealt with years ago.  The biggest mistake I made when writing the bylaws was having a new President every two years, too short in my opinion now to bridge the gap of parent/coaches moving from one level to the next.

 

Ranger help the Youth coaches out here and find those bylaws.

I think it comes down to the goal of the event. I think the focus today is growth and numbers. In this case I like the current approach. Yes we hold out a handful of kids but allow many others a better chance at success and taking home a medal. If competition becomes part of the goal then let them make their choice.

The focus from day one was always growth and numbers,  nothing new there.  The growth of middle school wrestling obviously stems from youth wrestling.

[kdsmith27 14]

I think it comes down to the goal of the event. I think the focus today is growth and numbers. In this case I like the current approach. Yes we hold out a handful of kids but allow many others a better chance at success and taking home a medal. If competition becomes part of the goal then let them make their choice.

 

Well said Ranger. Just my opinion, but I was there when The MS Assoc was started and our goal then was to grow the sport. We did and changed the rules/by-laws as we came along to make it more competitive. I can honestly say we have a great MS assoc even compared to other states.

 

5 years later and 5 years ago we started the Youth assoc. and of course are having growing pains, because its like starting over each year because coaches move up. Again our goal was and is to get youth interested in wrestling at a young age and I believe the assoc has done its job when you get 1000 kids at a state tournament. There has been some talk about combining the assoc's to combat this problem.

 

I would say that if more coaches would take the time to attend the Assoc meetings, We would have a better understanding of what the Assoc has to do and has done.

[Chris Duke 284]

I would say that if more coaches would take the time to attend the Assoc meetings, We would have a better understanding of what the Assoc has to do and has done.

 

Why are the meetings limited to coaches?  If you opened it up to parents that are interested in helping you could have more input and more help.  I will never be a coach or ever claim to be one.  I'm just one of those parents that like to be involved with my child's growth.  When you close the door to 90% of the people you are pushing away a lot of ideas.

[kdsmith27 14]

Why are the meetings limited to coaches?  If you opened it up to parents that are interested in helping you could have more input and more help.  I will never be a coach or ever claim to be one.  I'm just one of those parents that like to be involved with my child's growth.  When you close the door to 90% of the people you are pushing away a lot of ideas.

 

 

I say that because that is all that shows up, and very few at that. But it is an open meeting and we do have others come.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Why are the meetings limited to coaches? If you opened it up to parents that are interested in helping you could have more input and more help. I will never be a coach or ever claim to be one. I'm just one of those parents that like to be involved with my child's growth. When you close the door to 90% of the people you are pushing away a lot of ideas.

Opening the state meetings up to non coaches could cause problems. I attended a boone county pee wee fb boosters meeting one year where a group of parents were upset over a specific issue and they showed up with a lynch mob mentality. It was counter productive to say the least and county police had to show up and babysit.

[Ranger123 43]

Good point coach smith. I've never seen anyone turned away from the meeting. But generally it is a sparsely attended meeting of head coaches and a few guys who help out. I would suggest you talk with your teams coach and know what to expect.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I say that because that is all that shows up, and very few at that. But it is an open meeting and we do have others come.

Should have read the whole thread before my previous reply. ;-)

[raidercoach 51]

While I respect the people that attend the meetings, I don't think just because a handful of people show up to a meeting they should have the right to make significant changes to the mysteriously missing youth by-laws. What's the point of having by-laws if we can't easily access them to guide our decisions and if they can be changed so easily?

[kdsmith27 14]

Well, it's not like they are top secret, but i can't find mine either!

[MLee 68]

There is this new thing called the Internet (from what I hear, it is taking off).  It could allow coaches to vote on important issues with something called "Email".  Just a thought.   

[plantmanky1 58]

There is this new thing called the Internet (from what I hear, it is taking off).  It could allow coaches to vote on important issues with something called "Email".  Just a thought.  

 

 

That doesn't work either.  Middle School sends out Proxy ballots every year before the fall meeting.  I think the most that was returned was 5 one year, and then about 25 coaches showed up at the meeting.  

[stanmms 4]

There is this new thing called the Internet (from what I hear, it is taking off).  It could allow coaches to vote on important issues with something called "Email".  Just a thought.   

You are on it.  Still waiting to get one of those.