Ky Coaches Association: What do you want them to do?

[grappler-of-old 44]

Since this was kind of brought up in another thread. I thought it might be interesting to find out what everyone would like the association to do.

Maybe this will get something started by the KCA. Who knows

[eville dad 17]

Dave's Top Ten

1) Develop a way to report results for all to use. (see "scoreboards" for Baseball, football softball etc....), requiring that all duals and tournaments be reported.

2) Complete a schedule of when rankings will be published to the public.

3) Increase the frequency of the rankings at least every 3 weeks.

4) Publish the rankings according to schedule.

5) Release the information to the newspapers across the state at the same time.

6) Publish the won-loss records and the school class of the wrestlers with the rankings.

7) Official photo/videographer for the state tournament so the public can review and order photos at the event, offer video of the state finals.

8 ) Require that a % of matches for each team are against in state competition and limit the number of out of state matches per season.

9) Create an academic all state team.

10) Create a Mr. Wrestler award with some scholarship to promote academics and furthering education based on high school career, wrestling achievements, academics, service work, sportsmanship. etc....

[Mathound 4]

I agree with most of your list except for:

8 ) Require that a % of matches for each team are against in state competition and limit the number of out of state matches per season.

Sounds like it would be good to have Kentucky teams wrestle each other more often, however, implementing it and making it required seems extreme.

Good ideas though

[grappler-of-old 44]

Dave's Top Ten

1) Develop a way to report results for all to use. (see "scoreboards" for Baseball' date=' football softball etc....), requiring that all duals and tournaments be reported.

2) Complete a schedule of when rankings will be published to the public.

3) Increase the frequency of the rankings at least every 3 weeks.

4) Publish the rankings according to schedule.

5) Release the information to the newspapers across the state at the same time.

6) Publish the won-loss records and the school class of the wrestlers with the rankings.

7) Official photo/videographer for the state tournament so the public can review and order photos at the event, offer video of the state finals.

8 ) Require that a % of matches for each team are against in state competition and limit the number of out of state matches per season.

9) Create an academic all state team.

10) Create a Mr. Wrestler award with some scholarship to promote academics and furthering education based on high school career, wrestling achievements, academics, service work, sportsmanship. etc....[/quote']

I agree with Mathound #8 seems to be extreme, even though I may agree with it, but it's discriminatory to those that live near boarders and would have to double their traveling if forced to do this. IE Nky and Wky.

[Southern112 0]

Dave's Top Ten

1) Develop a way to report results for all to use. (see "scoreboards" for Baseball' date=' football softball etc....), requiring that all duals and tournaments be reported.

2) Complete a schedule of when rankings will be published to the public.

3) Increase the frequency of the rankings at least every 3 weeks.

4) Publish the rankings according to schedule.

5) Release the information to the newspapers across the state at the same time.

6) Publish the won-loss records and the school class of the wrestlers with the rankings.

7) Official photo/videographer for the state tournament so the public can review and order photos at the event, offer video of the state finals.

8 ) Require that a % of matches for each team are against in state competition and limit the number of out of state matches per season.

9) Create an academic all state team.

10) Create a Mr. Wrestler award with some scholarship to promote academics and furthering education based on high school career, wrestling achievements, academics, service work, sportsmanship. etc....[/quote']

Im really suporting the top 7....especially #1...I never see any results to any duals outside of jefferson county(louisville).....it would be nice to see results...really nice... :wink:

[bulldog-leader 56]

As a coach I don't particularly care for the rankings nor who defeated who in a dual ect, ect.

I do however would like more coverage in the newspapers, scores ect. (Many don't get printed)

I would like a more detailed schedule of events that teams are attending, so that others might find tourneys to get into.

9 and 10 are great ideas.

[eville dad 17]

Heres the reason for #8:

Schools that have the means (money) wrestle more out of state to seek better competition and to avoid seeing and being seen by their in state rivals. Schools that dont have the means (money) are forced to stay in state and wrestle in state rivals over and over, 3-5 times per year. I dont blame them its a smart way to schedule but in all honesty it provides a distinct advantage which is unfair to the less capable programs unable to travel as much and seek the better out of state competition.

Border schools can just as easily stay in state and keep the action within the state to keep competition level on an even playing field.

I am not saying out of state competition should be off limits, just regulated to keep the

schools in state more and as exposed as other schools.

I would consider the limit to be one, maybe two out of state tournaments per year. Out of state teams attending in state tournaments would not be a problem.

New

Add to the top 10 or lets make that 11:

11) I would also like to see the State Duals tournament involve teams that have qualified thru a dual competition qualifier, perhaps one team per district qualifying by having wrestled duals among the other teams within their district during the current season to determine a district champion that advances to the State Duals Tournament between 8 teams for 1st thru 4th place. Reason: State Duals is a marathon in its current format.

This would add to the regular season duals competition if it meant a bid to the state duals tournament was on the line.

[grapplinfan 0]

No, border schools cannot. If you tell me that driving a bus from Campbell Co to Lexington, Louisville, or further is cheaper than driving 15 mins to Cincy ... there's no way. The same goes for Western Ky. To say its just as easy in light of that is just not true. If you're from Louisville, where there are multiple good tourneys, of course you can say its easy to stay in state even though you're a border team. But when you live over 100 miles away .. then you're not keeping everyone on the same playing field.

1. Cost of gas, in a bus thats significant.

2. We have to get up WAY earlier than you guys for weigh ins.

On point 2, yeah, stay in a hotel. But then that goes back into the cost factor.

[eville dad 17]

Grapplin,

I see your point regarding Cincy and cost of travel but requiring instate competition wouldnt create any more expense than other instate schools to travel 1-2 hours for instate competition. If this instate requirement were applied it would create a need for more instate tournaments.

By the way this type of requirement wouldnt make KY the only state with restrictions on out of state competition.

[grapplinfan 0]

I understand what you want to see, and i'd like to see more competitive meets in Ky as well. I think we both want the same thing. But, the big number of in state tournaments should be a symptom of good wrestling schools in Ky. I don't think forcing teams to keep wrestling the same guys is the way.

I think encouraging more kids to come out for the sport is the way. Schools like Campbell Co and Ryle should dominate the smaller schools more than they do. At least from Campbell Co, i am shocked at how few kids come out relative to the size of the school. I can't speak for Ryle with regard to that. The only reason i talk about these two, is i don't know enough about the other large schools. St X showed nobody had anything for them when they had their things in order a few years back. I don't know what the situation is with them, Trinity (who seems on the rise), or any of the other big ones.

I get peppered by Woodford and LaRue that numbers don't matter. Yes, they do. Look at any other sport and you'll draw a direct correlation between who's the biggest and who's the best. Its that way in Cross Country, football, basketball (usually). I'd call the dominance by smaller schools, while to their credit for working brutally hard and beating everyone, more of a knock on the big guys. I respect those two schools because they get the most out of what they have, however. I don't think the big guys are.

The movie Hoosiers was about an anomaly, of which there are some. It wasn't trying to point out the norm. But you see no other sport where a small school consistently beats the big ones. Even in classified sports, i've noticed when top ranked class A guys meet top ranked class AAA or AAAA guys, the class A guy gets killed.

Another thing, i'd like to see a couple of the premiere football schools up here get into wrestling. There is no good reason Covington Catholic and Highlands should not have wrestling teams. They're more than big enough and have the competitive mindset at those schools. The type of places that actually have people show up at pep rallies even if they're not during school hours.

Once you buy mats, it can't be much more cost until you hit meets aside from paying the coaches. I do think Boone County is getting one back, i know they had a team when i wrestled 10+ yrs ago. Striking public interest in this would help such schools to get off their butts, i'm sure covington catholic anyway (just a concrete example i can quickly think of) would have the bodies to put out a competitive team if they really wanted to do it.

Motivating such schools and kids at schools who have programs is the key. The key to such motivation is through striking public interest. Which points more at a poor public relations campaign than Ky teams not wrestling one another. I think addressing that was listed somewhere in the top 10.

[TeamJesus316 0]

Limiting Out of State competition would do alot more harm than good. I have not experienced wrestling in Kentucky, but coming from a large wrestling state, California, you can not limit the amount of wrestling a wrestler competes in. 4 or 5 years ago, California started limiting the number of matches you could have to 40 before the state championship series (not counting byes or forfeits). It severly hurt the whole dual meet situation. The top wrestlers would not wrestle in duals unless it was for something (a league, section, or tournament title). Limiting out of state competition is along the same lines. As coaches, our number one goal should be to develop our wrestlers to the point that they can compete at the college level with the least amount of adjustment as possible. Being in an area where there are alot of states that have good wrestling and are all in driving distance (Missouri, Illinois, Pennsylvania, Ohio, etc.) we are in the perfect situation to breed a wrestling tradition in our state to rival these other states. California had the problem of being so far away from the wrestling powers that the top guys did not get to compete against the best. Dont voluntarily cause this in Kentucky. Just my two cents.

I would like to see a regional Dual Championship tournament that leads to the state duals. Top 2 Teams from each region should qualify to make a 16 man tournament. Hold the regional duals before the regional individual tournament (help with seeding criteria), and then the state duals before the state individual for the same reason.

Coach Mendez

[overweight 0]

I can not believe anyone would limit out of state wrestling, where do you really gauge yourself with the rest of the world of wrestling if you were to limit over the line? NKY has to go to OH to afford any extra wrestling for parents to afford, it is still expensive. I think any limit on out of state wrestling is a poor, not thought out, selfish, idea. I find that wrestling in the southern couties of KY, the local venders know we are ther and charge additional prices unless you drive a few miles north or south to get a decent rate on food, room costs etc. I do not see any incentives from the southern coaches to lure the NKY and eastern teams there, Ther should be some price breaks offered if you mention a tourney. Does that make sense? Am I asking the right questions? We have been in OH, Indiana, IL, PA, maybe not just us just people we know, we can not afford everything,,,,,,,,,,,,,,wish we could though

[bulldog-leader 56]

No' date=' border schools cannot. If you tell me that driving a bus from Campbell Co to Lexington, Louisville, or further is cheaper than driving 15 mins to Cincy ... there's no way. The same goes for Western Ky. To say its just as easy in light of that is just not true. If you're from Louisville, where there are multiple good tourneys, of course you can say its easy to stay in state even though you're a border team. But when you live over 100 miles away .. then you're not keeping everyone on the same playing field.

1. Cost of gas, in a bus thats significant.

2. We have to get up WAY earlier than you guys for weigh ins.

On point 2, yeah, stay in a hotel. But then that goes back into the cost factor.[/quote']

Great points Grapplin:

This is one of the reasons we cannont keep kids on the team. Having to leave every Sat. at 6.00 A.M and returning home at 10-12 at nigth every weekend keeps kids away from the team. 4 hour round trip bus trips are brutal.

We have been trying to find tourneys across the river (Ohio) so that we can leave at 7 and get home at 8 or earlier, with only a 1 hour round trip bus trip.

We travel to Lou/Lex regions 6 or 7 times a year if not more. I dream for the day our team only has to do this maybe 2 or 3 times a year with the rest of the season in Ohio. This is not for the competition but for the cost and time.

[Ranger123 43]

Great ideas eville.

I would like to see the coaches association start to act like a true organization. Which means reaching out to everyone that is a part of the organization. If they don't all want to participate, that's fine. But the attempt should be made. As I have said before, I paid my dues for a few years and never received the first email, letter, or phone call. So what was I a member for? Just to contribute my $ to the cause? So I have to assume one of two things: my input doesn't count or nothing is happening to further wrestling in the state by the coaches as an organization. I think that if the coaches were truly organized then the ideas would get passed along to the leadership and maybe some good ideas could move forward. Because we know the parents and kids are telling us what should be happening. And if the leadership knew of the interest (or outcry) for certain things maybe they could respond.

My list (off the top of my head)

1) schedules and results posted

2) seeding the state tournament

3) real rankings on a weekly basis

4) photo/videos at state

[pioneer_pride 1]

perhaps instead of limiting the number of out of state matches, you just have a percentage of matches....like 90% of your matches have to be in state....that way if teams want to still wrestle out of state, they can, but they have to include more in state competition so they don't drop below 90%. this may be hard to juggle, but i can see where eville dad is coming from. i could see where this might be a good thing...it might encourage the border schools to host more events to save on gas & hotels. those schools would be competing to draw in good local out of state teams. this might not be a bad thing. more events would mean more opportunities to compete for newer schools. just a thought. it might sound like a pain at first, but could lead to good things.

[kdsmith27 14]

The only way change can happen is to have a strong membership and voice your opinion. Being a silent member will not accomplish anything. The KWCA has an annual meeting at state to discuss its charter. I also feel there needs to be change. KWCA has been very passive with its charter and with members. Membership gives you a voice. People do listen. Numbers make change.

I sent this to all Kentucky Coaches earlier this year.

Coaches,

Kentucky Wrestling Coaches Association has been a great influence in our wrestling community by being a voice for us with KHSAA. They helped establish the State Duals that get better each year that it is hosted. Compile rankings, List tournaments, and the tournament results. and is the voice of Kentucky coaches. We have the opportunity to belong to an organization that will help us within the wrestling community. With continued growth in membership, we as one voice can get more accomplished then individually. Now is the time (off Season) to take the time to join the Kentucky Wrestling Coaches Association. The annual membership fee is only $5, but will go a long way to help us with our continued success in Kentucky Wrestling.

Below is the link to the membership enrollment form:

http://www.kentuckywrestling.org/html/enrollment.htm

[grappler-of-old 44]

perhaps instead of limiting the number of out of state matches' date=' you just have a percentage of matches....like 90% of your matches have to be in state[b'].......it might encourage the border schools to host more events to save on gas & hotels. .

The only thing this will do is have those teams to invite the out of state teams to thier tourney instead of going there.

They still will not allow local teams in the tourney, similar to what Conner does. They discourage any local teams from comming to thier tourney. (If a local team is in a bind they will relunctantly allow them in the tourney) (I agree with this because they already wrestle the local teams 3 or 4 times a year)

I just don't agree with a high percentage of meets being forced upon the teams. Maybe 50%.

[Mr Granby 0]

The only thing this will do is have those teams to invite the out of state teams to thier tourney instead of going there.

They still will not allow local teams in the tourney, similar to what Conner does. They discourage any local teams from comming to thier tourney. (If a local team is in a bind they will relunctantly allow them in the tourney) (I agree with this because they already wrestle the local teams 3 or 4 times a year)

I just don't agree with a high percentage of meets being forced upon the teams. Maybe 50%.

good point except some schools claim that tournaments are NOT money makers ....and dont want tournaments at their school. Thats what my school is like

[pioneer_pride 1]

The only thing this will do is have those teams to invite the out of state teams to thier tourney instead of going there.

I don't know if I 100% buy that this will happen. Of course it will happen some, but it's not like every border school can draw nothing but out of state teams.

As far as wrestling tournaments not being a money maker...that's nonsense...you have a gym full of hungry wrestlers & parents sitting around all day. How can you not make money? I understand there are a lot of costs associated with officials, medals, & stuff...you just have to be creative. Schools claiming tournaments are not money makers either are running them wrong, or are just to lazy to put out the effort. A lot of AD's just don't want to put effort into wrestling.

[Guest DAWG6]

I don't know if I 100% buy that this will happen. Of course it will happen some' date=' but it's not like every border school can draw nothing but out of state teams.

As far as wrestling tournaments not being a money maker...that's nonsense...you have a gym full of hungry wrestlers & parents sitting around all day. How can you not make money? I understand there are a lot of costs associated with officials, medals, & stuff...you just have to be creative. Schools claiming tournaments are not money makers either are running them wrong, or are just to lazy to put out the effort. A lot of AD's just don't want to put effort into wrestling.[/quote']

Some schools don't host tournaments because they can't coordinate for the Gym until the Basketball schedule is complete.

Concessions is all profit minus expenses.

Gate pays for referee and the rest goes back to the school, it doesn't go to the wrestling account. At least it's that way at our school.

One year you can have a date and the next year you can't. Its hard to get schools to contiune to support your event when its evey other year or the dates change and they are already scheduled for another tournament.

[bulldog-leader 56]

1 Some schools don't host tournaments because they can't coordinate for the Gym until the Basketball schedule is complete.

2 Concessions is all profit minus expenses.

3 Gate pays for referee and the rest goes back to the school' date= it doesn't go to the wrestling account. At least it's that way at our school.

4 One year you can have a date and the next year you can't. Its hard to get schools to contiune to support your event when its evey other year or the dates change and they are already scheduled for another tournament.

1. We have a hard enough time getting the gym for the regional tourney when it is our turn.

2. Concessions go to the general fund at our school

3. This is where we get our profit, after it pays for officials, medals, custodians, and any other expenses that was caused.

4. We are not guaranteed a date year in year out either.

[kdsmith27 14]

1. We have a hard enough time getting the gym for the regional tourney when it is our turn.

2. Concessions go to the general fund at our school

3. This is where we get our profit, after it pays for officials, medals, custodians, and any other expenses that was caused.

4. We are not guaranteed a date year in year out either.

What about Team Tournament Fee's ???

[Guest DAWG6]

What about Team Tournament Fee's ???

Those coaches just trade out. You let me in your tournament and I'll let you in mine. Therefore no money changes programs.

[bulldog-leader 56]

We will usually make between $100-$200 an event, from door and entry fees (I try to keep the fees low so teams don't go broke, just enough to cover the officials fees, not the scorers fees)

But not sure its worth the hassle of borrowing mats from other teams and losing 2 days of practice for this.

I know these are excusses but holding more than one of these a year can/is a hassle.

If you expect the large border schools to hold all the tourneys they will not be able to. It's a huge stress on the coaches, wrestlers, and mostly the parents, because they are the one working the tables, the hospitality room and driving the mats back to and from the school.

Once again I know it will help my program when I can reduce cost by traveling across the river with little or no cost for travel, and not having to stress the school for the gym. It will also help keep kids out.

If we were in Lou/Lex area I know it would be less stressful because of the number of schools within 1 hour of each other.

I can't imagine how much extra travel the Western Ky schools would have if they were forced to wrestle 90% in state.

[Guest former_fc_wrestler]

7) Official photo/videographer for the state tournament so the public can review and order photos at the event' date=' offer video of the state finals..[/quote']

Great idea, imagine the possibilities. Air time on KET for the finals. you could sell commercial time the same way ads are sold for the program. the possibilities are great for the finals video.