grapplinfan

No doubt, that is hard to say and not what i was trying to do.

Completely right ... a multi champ isn't necessarily better than a one timer. Jacob Holbrooke from Campbell Co for example ... a one time champ. A one time champ that only gave up like 3 points (not including letting the guy up) his whole state champ year (Fairfield OH Invitational included).

He's not outclassed by those guys, at least Banks and Ervin's credentials are no better. And Courtney didn't smoke Banks by any means, he eeked that out. Of course Courtney's so young, and therefore should still have more potential to develop. So by next year i'd see Courtney as outclassing them all. I'd have put him on par with Banks, and undoubtedly with Ervin last year. But yes, having to go through them makes things a lot more difficult for him. As a fan, i'd love to see him go where one of them go ... however.

I meant was age catching up with him the reason Thuneman smoked him ? Ali was the greatest boxer ever, but he wasn't when he turned 50. Naturally top guys like Thuneman could probably take him, depending on his age ... no matter how great you've been. And thats not a knock on Thuneman, if you read my other posts you'll get the idea i'm a fan of the kid. So i was just curious, thats all. I'll leave it at that, i can see why no one would want to throw out a number for how old headly is. I probably shouldn't have asked that question, but for that reason only. All my point was, is if he was at his peak i suspect Thuneman wouldn't smoke him.

How old is he ?

He'd be a great heavy weight if he's a solid heavy weight. Hopefully he's weighing that much because he bulked up that much, his weight bottomed out at about 200 in season last year if i heard it right. Although when i saw him a few months back i think he was a lean 220. What would make him a good heavyweight is he's as strong as one of the big guys, with more agility.

I'd like to see Thuneman get his title wherever he ends up. He's been the guy to beat the last two years, and had something go wrong in the semis both years (Derek Scott hitting headlock with waning time and losing to a guy he beat three times). He clearly had Scott beat two years ago, although i didn't see the match with Powers ... perhaps the 4th time wrestling or whatever Powers had him well scouted.

The other guy was a wrestler with a lot of talent (Depperschmidt was his last name). I don't know why exactly he didn't come out his senior year, i figure its a personal decision he had to make. Had he come out his senior year, Campbell Co would have taken 2nd (in 2005), he'd have definitely scored the 6 or whatever handful of points they needed at 171 (he'd have placed) to overcome the Ryle/LaRue tie for 2nd.

Nolan won state, and came back and was runner up the next year. They were neck and neck all year. Its therefore pretty hard to argue that from a pure talent perspect he didn't deserve it. I saw Nolan wrestle varsity more than a handful of times that year as well, so the decision wasn't without precedent. Either Nolan had beaten him a few times, or there was something else going on. On the integrity front you gotta make a gut call, its not a decision i would have wanted to make either way, but i've heard very few question the integrity of a Campbell Co coaching decision. But nonetheless, i'm getting off topic. Regardless of the question of whether it was a decision that sacrificed someone or not, Nolan was probably the biggest underdog ever.

Howard is an animal, no getting around it. He took Parker to the limit twice, and took Peace to overtime. He roughed up Ben Rust at state (real off day though) who'd gone to the wire with Peace twice, and Rust had beaten Ashbrooke out of season as well (size disadvantaged at that). Out of season is out of season, although i suspect Ashbrooke doesn't sit and do completely nothing. I also note Howard smoked Collins from Johnson Central at regions, and Collins looked flat out impressive at state ... if i'm not mistaken he handed Bowlds his behind there. He would likely have been a semi-finalist had it not been for the body slam. I'm using this example as a common opponent argument, shakily due to using out of season matches, and what i'm saying is Ashbrooke deal is taking one match out of context. Enjoy the win, its impressive, but there's no way Howard will lose by 7 again. He may very well lose as Ashbrooke is tough, but enough of this. Jackson beat Peace badly at the duels, although i think Peace was clearly the better wrestler as the results at state proved. I saw Jackson hit shots on Peace that Peace never gets hit with, and I suspect thats probably the type of deal that happened with Howard. Lets not try to say Ashbrooke is superior based on a single match, and not let the left hooks sway judgement on pure wrestling talent. We're not discussing character and all that here (i'm not judging the kid, i've been that mad in matches). I'd say you can't accurately rank these four (Peace, Jackson, Howard, Ashbrooke) until a month and a half of wrestling happens if they even all end up the same class in the first place.

Hildreth beat Walls. Hildreth didn't wrestle Walls at the duels, but he did lose to Fyffe at the duels. Hildreth was one of those guys that was on, or off. When he was on, he was on. He did beat Walls, who beat Fyffe for third. He was beat at the duels, soundly, but nobody cares about anything but the places at state. By the way, Courtney was beaten at the duels too. Doesn't make him a lesser man either. The varsity guy did not quit the year Nolan won it all. There's a story there, and we'll leave as that. Nolan and he were back and forth in wrestle offs ... and a judgement call was made by the coaches. It looks like they made the right call, as they almost always do. Nolan stepped up and got the job done. And, he made it back to the finals his senior year showing it wasn't completely a fluke. That is, showing it was indeed being underrated.

Sorry, my vote goes to region 7. Someone could put a list that long together of just Woodford and Harrison Co guys. I will give you Sullivan and Howard as finalists. But here goes finalists from Woodford.. Lewis (very likely, but 125 a very different animal than 112) Courtney Starks Byrd Thats more from one team than the whole region. Harrison Co could possibly contribute a couple. Counting placers, if you put those two together undoubtedly you'll get roughly the same number of placers you've listed. And there's definitely other guys from region 7 not on Harrison or Woodford that will place.

Luck of the draw ? You're making it sound like you pull a name out of a hat, and you get a random wrestler to go against. That is not how this works at all, not in the least. Win regions and you dramatically reduce your odds of wrestling anyone good until the quarter finals. Period. If two guys in a region are ridiculous, they are on opposite sides of the bracket as are all 1st and 2nd place regional finishers. Sounds almost eerily like effects of seeding anyway in this case. Biggest issue to me is, it seems no one likes seeing big time matches in the quarters. Why not ... its Friday night session ? It should be good, interesting and dramatic seeing what talented guys are gonna drop. Everything is heating up and the pressure is building. I think its pretty cool seeing who ends up with who in this round. The biggest thing i always see is the argument about dodging good wrestlers. So what ... if he had an easier road than you hand him his butt in the consols if you think thats the only reason he made it further than you. If you don't make it far enough to do that, you probably shouldn't have been complaining along those lines in the first place. The determining factor mostly is what region draws each other at what weight, not that a wrestler draws a random name out of a hat. After you pick all the regional #1 postions, a lot starts crystallizing already. Actually it kind of punishes weak regions, which seeding would also do. Come to think of it, there are some similarites after all.

I agree with you about Bankemper. He placed in front of Banks that year even though he lost to him at state, far in front of him pinning Joey Sanders for 3rd, implying to me nerves got to him or he looked past the match considering Banks was early in his career (freshman that year). Or, Banks wrestled the match of his career. I think the deal with Bryant is that there's a misconception on everyone's part that someone has to be a technical wizard or the outrageously quick smooth type with the juking and jiving stuff. The type of guy that you couldn't catch even if you cornered him in a telephone booth. This is not true. Bryant overpowered his opponents, and was effective enough doing it. That said, Bryant was good enough to win ... but i don't know if he's one of the best ever to not win.

It penalizes them for this reason. I'm sorry, but WCI is not even, not even close to the Western Brown invitational. Woodford got beat by 200 at that in 2005, and 100+ this year. And no, they didn't take second this year as dominant as they were at Ky state. Miami Trace also beat them in addition to Pemberville. The tournament in Dayton OH that Ryle and Simon went to is on par with that too. You had Paris Graham there, who like Pemberville was nationally ranked. As good as Woodford is, they're not on the national radar whatsover. And they're the Ky standard. When people go to those tourneys, they're obviously gonna lose some matches. In any ranking system, that hurts you. Hence, it penalizes you for wrestling out of state in one of the nation's powerhouses ... Ohio namely.