Thoughts from Middle School Tourney

[dog101 1]

Why wouldnt JS get any matches if he only wrestled MS?

Are you saying your school doesnt have a MS team?

Thats all the more reason to start a middle school team to build up your HS program over time.

Can you imagine how good a HS team would be if they had MS kids coming in as freshmen with 2-5 yrs experience and the whole HS team was made up of HS aged kids?

'

the kids behind JS would not get any matches because he would take the place of the kid who wrestle

if he was not there.  yes our team does have a middle school team and we are trying to get it even larger.

I guess the reason I feel so passionate about this, is that that my son 's (as I posted before) main goal was to be ms state champ. He worked hard over the summer and was able to acheive this. A byproduct of this work was also a spot on the varisty. Should I then have made my son choose one or the other.

I also agree, that the ideal thing would be to be having a HS team with all hs age kids. I am not arguing this point. I would like to see ky wrestling get to this point.

[naplesme 58]

I think many of you are missing the point. As bull-dog leader pointed out not every team has multiple coaches. It would be great if every program had enough coaches to send their High School team to a high school tournament and their middle school team to  middle school tournament, but we don

[tc125 0]

i dont understand anyones logic for why a middle schooler, shouldnt be aloud to compete in middle school state. during the summer at summer tournaments kids can wrestle in two different age groups, why should the season be any different? i guess what i dont get is why if we have two 12 year old kids that both attend a middle school, should one of the kids not be aloud to wrestle the other kid, just because he would beat him easily, cause he has been wrestling two years longer. that would be like telling a freshman that just started wrestling, since it was his first year, he was only going to wrestle other first years at highschool tournaments, and forfeit all the other matches beause they didnt want him to actually lose. besides, don't kids gain more from losing, than winning? i know that in my time ive spent wrestling, i have learned a lot more when i have lost, than when i've won. if this is the case then why would someone want to wrestle middle school ALL YEAR that was capable of wrestling highschool? it makes more sense to me that a wrestler should wrestle what hes capable of wrestling. middle school state is pretty much just for bragging rights. they arent wrestling it necasarily because it means something to them, i feel they wrestle in it so they can say theyve won middle school state, and if the kid is still in middle school, why take that opportunity away from them?

[hrvstrofsrrw 0]

tc125 said: "besides, don't kids gain more from losing, than winning? i know that in my time ive spent wrestling, i have learned a lot more when i have lost, than when i've won. if this is the case then why would someone want to wrestle middle school ALL YEAR that was capable of wrestling highschool? it makes more sense to me that a wrestler should wrestle what hes capable of wrestling. middle school state is pretty much just for bragging rights. they arent wrestling it necasarily because it means something to them, i feel they wrestle in it so they can say theyve won middle school state"

You're helping my argument here.  Some of these kids spend all year at varsity, then wrestle in the MS postseason for medals, bragging rights, and to say that they did it.  How is that benefiting anyone?  Are you telling me there's no quality varsity tournaments those weekends?  Heck, a couple of those guys at MS state didn't even look like they were enjoying themselves because it was so easy.  I'm just saying that I think in order for you to qualify for the postseason at either level, then you should have to wrestle in more than 50% of the team's matches at whichever level you choose, unless injury was a factor and you have medical documentation.

[tc125 0]

yes im sure there is a quality highschool tournament during the weekend of middle school state, but allowing a kid to wrestle, at an age group that he is in, is completely logical to me. whether or not he has wrestled highschool much of the season. maybe middle school state, is more important to these kids, than a highschool tournament that they may not medal in.

[wrestlingfanuk 0]

Once again, this is thoughts from the middle school tournament, not high school matches = no middle school state. Start a new post for people who want to argue this and talk about middle school state. I will change the subject by saying congratulations to Logan wedding. Now there is a kid with determination, heart, and class. Lots of people talk about how hard kids like wiley work to beat people that have beaten them in the past, well Logan works as hard as or harder than anyone in the state. When he gets down in a match his heart will not let him lose, as shown by his Peterson with 15 seconds left to beat fahy 2 years ago or his cradle this year against willen with 20 to go at regionals. Congrats Logan.

[wristandahalf 1]

I read on here somewhere that Wedding goes to a private school in Evansville. Assuming this is correct should a wrestler (him or anyone else) be allowed to compete in the Kentucky Middle School Tournament that doesn't go to school in Kentucky? I know he wrestles for a club team vs a school team but shouldn't someone at least have to attend a school in Kentucky or is it enough to live in Kentucky to compete in the tournament?

[bulldog-leader 56]

then you should have to wrestle in more than 50% of the team's matches at whichever level you choose, unless injury was a factor and you have medical documentation.

For my kids that would have been easy because we wrestled NO MIDDLE SCHOOL MATCHES.  We had no Middle school team.  Only middle school wrestlers who wrestled with the high school team. 

Their 1st year out they had to compete high school varsity or not wrestle at all.  I had no assistant coach, no parental support and very little school support.

As for the chance I took evill dad.  A huge one if someone would have gotten hurt with a non-coach present I could have lost everything in a law suit.  Yeah I know a stupid decision but I did it for the kid.  (I only had one each year compete)

Don't kill the struggling programs who barely keep their heads above water on the high school level.  If you require a minimum of middle school matches teams like mine would never be able to have their kids compete at middle school region and state.

[hrvstrofsrrw 0]

yes im sure there is a quality highschool tournament during the weekend of middle school state, but allowing a kid to wrestle, at an age group that he is in, is completely logical to me. whether or not he has wrestled highschool much of the season. maybe middle school state, is more important to these kids, than a highschool tournament that they may not medal in.

But you just said that they would benefit more from losing to better competition than they would from walking through MS state for "bragging rights."  And I agree with that, just like I agree with you when you said that MS doesn't necessarily mean that much to some kids.  I think that's unfortunate, but it looks to be true when you watch some kids' HS matches vs. their MS matches.

As for Wedding, he is so tough, the best wrestler in the toughest weight class this year.  If the whole private school in Evansville thing is true, though, that bothers me a little.  I know he is on a club team and all, but I think you should have to live here and go to school here.  How does that work at the high school level?  Anybody know?

[thegreatgatsby 23]

I read on here somewhere that Wedding goes to a private school in Evansville. Assuming this is correct should a wrestler (him or anyone else) be allowed to compete in the Kentucky Middle School Tournament that doesn't go to school in Kentucky? I know he wrestles for a club team vs a school team but shouldn't someone at least have to attend a school in Kentucky or is it enough to live in Kentucky to compete in the tournament?

Seemed to work for Isaac Knable.

[dagger 7]

I read on here somewhere that Wedding goes to a private school in Evansville. Assuming this is correct should a wrestler (him or anyone else) be allowed to compete in the Kentucky Middle School Tournament that doesn't go to school in Kentucky? I know he wrestles for a club team vs a school team but shouldn't someone at least have to attend a school in Kentucky or is it enough to live in Kentucky to compete in the tournament?

Logan Wedding attends Holy Name in Henderson Kentucky.

[wrestlingfanuk 0]

No, that is not correct. Logan goes to a catholic middle school in Henderson, Kentucky called holy name. He is not allowed to wrestle in Indiana middle school state because he lives in Kentucky. How can you complain about a kid who has been such a class act? He will be attending a school in Indiana next year for highschool and hopefully winning an Indiana state championship. Don't worry, no one from Kentucky has to get "cheated" and lose to Logan again unless they come to the Harrison 10 way duals or mater dei holiday classic in the next 4 years.

[wrestlingfanuk 0]

sorry, didn't see the post above, that's correct.

[trithis 34]

I think everyone that does not want middle school kids who compete on the high school level wrestling middle school are missing the boat on this one.  The idea of creating middle school or elementary school wrestling is to get kids interested in the sport and grow the sport of wrestling.  Stop complaining, griping, feeling sorry for yourself that your kid might have lost to one of the so called "high school" wrestlers and be happy that we have a growing sport in the state of Kentucky.  There are several states that do not have a middle school state tournament and we are fortunate that some great coaches took the leap to make this happen.  Be supportive.  If you want changes to be made show up at the meetings, coach your kid to be better, work harder, but stop complaining.  This sport is not about complaining.  It is hard enough for these kids, as it is, than to have their parents, and I say parents, make it a pain in the ass for everyone else.  If the kids are in grades lower than 9th and live in KY, than they are allowed to wrestle in middle school if their program/school allows them to.  It's not that difficult to understand.  If you don't like the way things are than participate and try to make it better.   

[hrvstrofsrrw 0]

I'm not saying a middle school can't wrestle middle school.  I'm just saying that you shouldn't be able to double-dip.  I'm thankful that KY wrestling is as big as it is, but sooner or later, these rules and organizational issues will have to be addressed.  And yes, if Knable did it like that, I think it sucks.  Not so much on his part, but on St X's part.  It is definitely not fair as far as the team aspect of it goes, because you could essentially compile an all star team of kids from all over and win a team state championship for your school even though none of those kids attend your school.  That makes no sense.

[Marjo 2]

I'm not saying a middle school can't wrestle middle school.  I'm just saying that you shouldn't be able to double-dip.  I'm thankful that KY wrestling is as big as it is, but sooner or later, these rules and organizational issues will have to be addressed.  And yes, if Knable did it like that, I think it sucks.  Not so much on his part, but on St X's part.  It is definitely not fair as far as the team aspect of it goes, because you could essentially compile an all star team of kids from all over and win a team state championship for your school even though none of those kids attend your school.  That makes no sense.

I disagree with you regarding Knable.  I realize that this is a middle school discussion however if you are going to bring up the same issue as it relates to high school you need to understand the rules.  HS rules are based on where an individual attends school, not where they live.  If someone lives on a border between 2 states as in the case of Knable they compete with the school they attend.  He was not eligible to wrestle in Indiana.  Saying that St. X should render someone inelible to compete because they live accross the river in IN is nonsense.  That would just mean that he couldn't compete at all.  There are lots of kids all over the country that this affects. 

I am not positive about this but I believe KY MS rules is based on where an individual lives.  Someone should be able to check the by-laws and post the rule.  In either case Wedding is eligible because he both lives and attends middle school in KY.  Once he goes to HS and starts to attend a school in IN, then that is where he will have to wrestle.  He will no longer be eligible for high school wrestling in KY.

[workhard 28]

I am disappointed that after a great tournament the biggest thread isnt complimenting wrestlers and coaches but complaining about great wrestlers of legal age and grade showing up to wrestle.Kentucky wrestling is getting better and new bounderies will be set as we grow. People are on here talking about doing what is good for the youth all the time,how about trying to reward champions with praise of their hard work and skill instead of tarnishing their championship with jealous gossip that usually comes from a very unreliable source.I send my son to st.x and know that Isacc Knable lives in Indiana but went to school at st.x so he participated in his schools sports programs.I also have a 7th grade son who won middle school state this year and could win  a varsity spot at st.x and help their team,but the private schools dont allow middle schoolers to participate in high school sports as many of the public schools do.I just thought I would share that before we began to gossip about a great wrestler like Isacc Knable or a great school like st.x.                        

I will finish by congradulating all of our state champions and placers and say please keep up the good work guys you will be glad you did.

[tc125 0]

exactly work hard. it seems we are taking away certain state champions hard work, and making it seem like they shouldnt work hard if they want to wrestle middle school.

[ARealWrestlingFanatic 1]

The other fact to consider is that wrestling is still a growing sport in Kentucky.  Allowing the more skilled wrestlers to wrestle up to greater competition will only continue to make the sport at all levels more competitive, thus pushing others to get better in order to compete.  There could be a day when the competition is such that you won't see many MS kids wrestling at the HS level because they aren't good enough.

[tc125 0]

and that is going to be a great day in the state of kentucky.

[Buckeye 20]

Maybe there should be something similar to a middle school JV state championship. Because if you take out the best middle school wrestlers (hs competition or not) that is essentially what it would be is an inferior state championship.

[hrvstrofsrrw 0]

I'm not taking away anything from anyone, and your seemingly high road approach sounds just as bad as my seemingly complaining approach.  It's great that these guys work hard and win, and I commend them for that.  But like tc125 said earlier, some of them get little real enjoyment out of it and do it just to get a medal.  It seems like they would be better served wrestling at a tougher HS tourney, and it seems wrong for them to be eligible for MS state when they haven't wrestled at the MS level all year except for the postseason.  And yes its completely valid to question the age of every participant at every level.  Maybe that's a product of the world we live in today, but it's naive to think that all parents and coaches are above bending the rules.

[workhard 28]

While reading this thread what I heard was lets punish the great wrestlers by making them pick one or the other.I did not respond until it got to Logan Wedding and the very inaccurate info of his elligibility.Next in the line of fire Isacc Knable and the notion he shouldnt be able to participate at his schools sports.I try not to talk about peoples personal situations when I know alot about them I certainly find it taking the low road to talk about anyone when you dont know the whole story and it isnt in your power to change a thing. Yes we should all take the high road as often as possible.

[myGSP 4]

Maybe there should be something similar to a middle school JV state championship. Because if you take out the best middle school wrestlers (hs competition or not) that is essentially what it would be is an inferior state championship.

The MS school programs are too young, Yes there are some programs better than others. These better programs will produce better kids (most of the time). Before talking about a middle school JV state championship, I think the time, effort and $ would be better spent at the elementary level. The early a kid gets involved with wrestling the better he will become. Wrestling isn't like other sports where you could take a kid and in two months make him a all state linebacker (if he has the ability and size) or baseball (good hand/eye coordination) a great baseball player. KY HS wrestlers are getting better as a state compared to OH, PA, NJ, MI, IN but they still have a long way to go. We should want all the kids to be the best they can be and that is about all they can do. What can we as Parents, Coaches, Administrators of schools and has been wrestlers do to help the kids of KY get better as to the other powerhouse states ? It will not happen overnight or next yr. Wrestling is a great sport and teaches kid more about responsibility, had work, mental toughness and just to do the right thing. One of the best places for a new kid to start wrestling is in USA wrestling or AAU programs. There they are matched up by age and weight, there are still studs there though. These programs will be starting soon, if you want your kid to get better get them involved. Below is a link to a training camp in OH, I talked to a father of one of the kids there and he said that they weren't training to be a State Champ but to win the Gold in the Olympics.

Should we lower the bar, keep it he same or keep raising it each year.

Make sure you read the References

Link: http://teammironwrestling.com/

[myGSP 4]

I'm not taking away anything from anyone, and your seemingly high road approach sounds just as bad as my seemingly complaining approach.  It's great that these guys work hard and win, and I commend them for that.  But like tc125 said earlier, some of them get little real enjoyment out of it and do it just to get a medal.  It seems like they would be better served wrestling at a tougher HS tourney, and it seems wrong for them to be eligible for MS state when they haven't wrestled at the MS level all year except for the postseason.  And yes its completely valid to question the age of every participant at every level.  Maybe that's a product of the world we live in today, but it's naive to think that all parents and coaches are above bending the rules.

You should contact the KY State Middle School Wrestling Assoc. at http://www.kyswa.org/ with your concerns as they set the by-laws for MS wrestling in KY. If someone was in violation of the kyswa by-laws and you knew about it then report it or quit stirring the Pot. I you are not sure learn the by-laws and if there is a problem asked ?'s at that time. If by-laws are broken report it. Maybe you are a bit naive about the sport of wrestling and should get more involved, learn the rules, the by-laws and make KY a better wrestling State!