Eligibility questions

[Mr Granby 0]

This post is ridiculous whoever the dad is should be ashamed of himself.  Its uttrerly stupid to hold a kid back.  Part of growing up is growing with team and a class of students, and holding him back will take that from him.  In my eyes its wrong, and im sure most on this site agree withg me.  Like you said your son is "gifted", if he is truly gifted then you should teach him to work harder and surpass his fellow class of wrestlers. It will make the accomplishment better by him being a champion in the classroom and the mat at a younger age!  Enough said!!!

[wrestler123 0]

Snap-Drag if you know some more please tell me what they have done with the career and if it really helped holding them back thats all I care about. I can name two that it may help J.J. Jude and Josh Johnson. And Josh Johnson was good before he got held back he may be a state champ soon but who knows about J.J. Jude. My point is one year does not matter unless your just wanting the kid you cant beat to graduate and if so thats sad.

I think the point has been made the "dad" has not got back on here to defend himself so this conversation in my opinion can R.I.P.

[CoachK 2]

I will grant it that i don't keep up a whole lot with middle school wrestling, but I have been coaching in Jefferson County for 15 years now and dont' know of any kids that have been held back in middle school to repeat a year.  Not saying that it hasn't been done, but I don't know of any and haven't had any other coaches say it either.  Moore is the only school in Jefferson county that has a middle school with the high school and we never have, but havent' heard of any others doing it either. i would be interested to hear about this one, do you have any ideas or are you just trying to repute the statement for Sheldon Clark?  Just wondering. 

Trent just for the record your full of crap!!!  You will name Sheldon Clark when all kind of other schools hold kids back.  They are several schools just in our region who have more hold backs than SC.  And I also know for a fact that several schools in the Louisville are have several hold backs on their team. You need to be more informed before you start calling people out by name.  It makes you look ignorant.  And to act like people hold their children back for wrestling is even more ridiculous.  Just get your facts right before you start running your mouth on SC.

[snapdown133 0]

Be careful of any "free advice". It is usually worth what you paid for it.

Well put coach

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Wow, my son lives 60 miles and 4 counties away from the school he attends and wrestles for. I pay Average Daily Attendance money to the school every semester. Maybe I should check with KHSAA and find out if he has been eligible for the last 5 years. According to their rule book, he is eligible. Free advise that's accurate, a bargain.

[snap-drag 0]

I will grant it that i don't keep up a whole lot with middle school wrestling, but I have been coaching in Jefferson County for 15 years now and dont' know of any kids that have been held back in middle school to repeat a year.  Not saying that it hasn't been done, but I don't know of any and haven't had any other coaches say it either.  Moore is the only school in Jefferson county that has a middle school with the high school and we never have, but havent' heard of any others doing it either. i would be interested to hear about this one, do you have any ideas or are you just trying to repute the statement for Sheldon Clark?  Just wondering. 

No I dont have any ideas about it.  I am however offended that Sheldon Clark would be called out on this, when there are different schools who have more kids that stay back than SC!!!  (there is a another thread on kentucky wrestling right now naming one)  but nothing is said about any other schools.  If a person keeps their child back just for sports, that is stupid.  There is other reasons for holding your child back. 

[pioneer_pride 1]

Hey man how have those two kids done since being hold back can you tell me??? I dont think either have become state champs or on pace to! How about that competitive edge? Where is the guy who started this post?

Those 2 kids haven't graduated yet, so I would think how it helped them is yet to be decided.  I think you are hung up on the holding back thing.  Whether they repeat a grade or not, it is an advantage to graduate at 18+ than 17...do you see that or no?

As far as all the chatter on this thread about how wrong, immoral, etc that it is.  You all bring up a lot of points about what bad things could happen - bored in school, losing their social network - does it EVER work out for the better in your eyes?  Is it not possible that holding a kid back ends up with a kid having better friends, and making better grades?  

snap-drag just made a point that I've been wondering about on this....do you think these people are holding their kids back for athletics ONLY or is it possible it's a combination...yes, they are good athletes, but holding them back may end up in them making better grades in the long run.

[tc125 0]

there are advantages and disadvantages to holding a kid back, and not. just like anything else in the worl. you guys can sit here and talk about all of them all day, and you could, cause there are that many. they are all what ifs though...none of us can say for sure what is going to happen and what isnt. i mean for all we know he could hold his kid back, then the kid could get his leg cut off next year and quit wrestling. i hope that doesnt happen, but it could, just like ANYTHING else. i think when he started this thread, he wanted real known disadvantages, like being too old to wrestle your senior year. no one needs to bash on him for what he feels is best for his kid, now does anyone need to bash on anyone else view points. its an opinion for a reason, and you can state yours, without bashing anyone else in the process.

[Mr Granby 0]

you all make no sense, school systems were designed to give kids the best education possible by people alot smarter than ourselves.  And they didnt design them for someone who is academically stable in the grade that they are in to be held back.  It not only demoralizes the kid but also keeps him fromm learning regularly with the way he/she is supposed to be taught.  Now i dont see any possible "advantages" to this scenario.  Tell your kid to wrestle in the off-season if he or you want him to have another year of experience. 

[tc125 0]

you all make no sense, school systems were designed to give kids the best education possible by people alot smarter than ourselves.  And they didnt design them for someone who is academically stable in the grade that they are in to be held back.  It not only demoralizes the kid but also keeps him fromm learning regularly with the way he/she is supposed to be taught.  Now i dont see any possible "advantages" to this scenario.  Tell your kid to wrestle in the off-season if he or you want him to have another year of experience. 

now theres a thought, off season wrestling. but what if they are holding them back for other reasons that are tottally unrelated to sports?

[Mr Granby 0]

He has already stated in previous posts that there is no other reason.  He wants his kid to have the best shot at getting a college scholarship.  Which i dont know if they would look that far back or not but they would see he was held back and may get the wrong impression??? idk but regardless my opinion is the father of this kid needs to throw this idea out the window because its ludacris!

[CoachK 2]

Oh I guess I misunderstood your first post when you said "I know for a fact that some Louisville area schools have hold backs on their team".  I thought I guess that meant you really did know and wasn't just saying it, but OK.  Don't get upset if it was true, just state that others have done it as well but don't state for "a fact" that others have that you know when you really don't.  It is stupid to hold someone back for just sports, especially for wrestling in KY, one more year won't make a huge difference. 

No I dont have any ideas about it.  I am however offended that Sheldon Clark would be called out on this, when there are different schools who have more kids that stay back than SC!!!  (there is a another thread on kentucky wrestling right now naming one)  but nothing is said about any other schools.  If a person keeps their child back just for sports, that is stupid.  There is other reasons for holding your child back. 

[bulldog-leader 56]

you all make no sense, school systems were designed to give kids the best education possible by people alot smarter than ourselves.  And they didnt design them for someone who is academically stable in the grade that they are in to be held back.  It not only demoralizes the kid but also keeps him fromm learning regularly with the way he/she is supposed to be taught.  Now i dont see any possible "advantages" to this scenario.  Tell your kid to wrestle in the off-season if he or you want him to have another year of experience. 

Mr Granby;  You are correct that schools are set up for learning.  However, what is academically stable?  My son has a late birthday (early Sept) he was scheduled to be a 17 year old graduate.  My wife started him early.  (Those with late birthdays have an option of starting school at 4 because they turn 5 in a week or two or waiting).

In the second grade he was making the grade (C's) but having to work hard for them.  We decided to hold him back in the second grade.  A couple of reasons for this.  1. He may no longer have to struggle to get only C's, 2. He would no longer be the youngest in his class, 3. He would graduate at the age of 18, the age that most graduate. 4. Finally he would not be 17 his senior year in sports (at the time I thought he would be in basketball).

Since we made this decision his academic work has greatly improved.  His attitude toward school has improved and he has made many more friends.  Not to mention he is now wrestling, but I don't know if this made a difference or not, nor will I ever know.  I do know that he is now as mature as the rest of his classmates, something he was not before we held him back.  So yes there are many possible good reasons for retaining a child in the same grade.  Don't assume that someone asked this question just because they wanted them to be held back for sports, they just wanted to make sure their child would still be eligible.

[tiltfor3 20]

Don't assume that someone asked this question just because they wanted them to be held back for sports, they just wanted to make sure their child would still be eligible.

<<1. Is it better to hold back a wrestler in MS that is academically passing in order to gain an extra year of development in wrestling.>>

Eligible does not equal development in wrestling.

[heavy83 15]

IMO holding a kid back as b-dog ldr did at that age has much more advantages not for sports but in life. But fordoing at the 7th or 8th grade i believe does more harm than good. Also ipea how can you get 5 yrs of eligibiity by living 60miles and 4 counties away?

[Mr Granby 0]

Mr Granby;  You are correct that schools are set up for learning.  However, what is academically stable?  My son has a late birthday (early Sept) he was scheduled to be a 17 year old graduate.  My wife started him early.  (Those with late birthdays have an option of starting school at 4 because they turn 5 in a week or two or waiting).

In the second grade he was making the grade (C's) but having to work hard for them.  We decided to hold him back in the second grade.  A couple of reasons for this.  1. He may no longer have to struggle to get only C's, 2. He would no longer be the youngest in his class, 3. He would graduate at the age of 18, the age that most graduate. 4. Finally he would not be 17 his senior year in sports (at the time I thought he would be in basketball).

Since we made this decision his academic work has greatly improved.  His attitude toward school has improved and he has made many more friends.  Not to mention he is now wrestling, but I don't know if this made a difference or not, nor will I ever know.  I do know that he is now as mature as the rest of his classmates, something he was not before we held him back.  So yes there are many possible good reasons for retaining a child in the same grade.  Don't assume that someone asked this question just because they wanted them to be held back for sports, they just wanted to make sure their child would still be eligible.

You also have to take in to consideration you did this at an early age and werent thinking about high school, mifddle school, or college sports! It was for your sons welfare.  I graduated at 17 so i know the situation!

[tc125 0]

Oh I guess I misunderstood your first post when you said "I know for a fact that some Louisville area schools have hold backs on their team".  I thought I guess that meant you really did know and wasn't just saying it, but OK.  Don't get upset if it was true, just state that others have done it as well but don't state for "a fact" that others have that you know when you really don't.  It is stupid to hold someone back for just sports, especially for wrestling in KY, one more year won't make a huge difference. 

i beg to differ coachk, one year can make a huge difference in wrestling. look at all the state champs in all the weights, do you think most started as freshman? i dont.

[Mr Granby 0]

i beg to differ coachk, one year can make a huge difference in wrestling. look at all the state champs in all the weights, do you think most started as freshman? i dont.

yes i totally agree one year can change you but whats the difference in a school season year and an off season year?...to be honest i had twice the matches in the off season and twice the training...but yes i agree with you, but im still tied in a knot over this dad i cant get over it..lol

[tc125 0]

yes i totally agree one year can change you but whats the difference in a school season year and an off season year?...to be honest i had twice the matches in the off season and twice the training...but yes i agree with you, but im still tied in a knot over this dad i cant get over it..lol

there isnt a difference between an off season year and a season year, unless he already planned on doing off season and season all four years of highschool, and wanted the extra season year. which then would result in a two year difference, with the season year, and the off season year.

[Mr Granby 0]

there isnt a difference between an off season year and a season year, unless he already planned on doing off season and season all four years of highschool, and wanted the extra season year. which then would result in a two year difference, with the season year, and the off season year.

Obviously you have never wrestled hard in the off-season..there is a huge difference.  Most of the small tournaments are where you get the mahority of your matches and experience.  And you can find the tough competition at any national event or out of state event.  But off-season is where the GREAT wrestlers seperate themselves from the good wrestlers!

[pioneer_pride 1]

bulldog-leader - thank you for bringing up the good side of this.  Sometimes I think it helps a kid out.  Not just athletically but academically.  My younger brothers had the same exact experience as it sounds like your son has had.  The KDE recommends IF you are going to hold a kid back it should be done before the 3rd grade.  I don't know what their reasons are.

[Dutch1873 0]

Bulldog Leader, is correct. I can remember a good friend of mine being held back in third grade for the exact same reason. His grades were ok, but not as good as his parents thought, and after discussing it with the teacher he was held back. He did just fine after that. It makes perfect sense to hold a child back for acedemic reasons, but for athletic reasons, I would say no, Not when you can participate in a sport year round. You can dedicate as much time as you want to the sport.

[wrestlewatcher 3]

Also ipea how can you get 5 yrs of eligibiity by living 60miles and 4 counties away?

I'm not going to join in the right and wrong of the hold back, but as far as eligibility is concerned it is pretty cut and dry since he is not yet in high school.  To change schools once you have wrestled for a high school that you go muddies the waters a bit and there are bylaws on the KHSAA website that go through this in detail. 

In regards to eligibility-your kid has to wrestle for the school that they are earning their credits from.  Some counties allow transfers in, but have provisions as to how that is done.  This is the example IPEA used-unless I have misunderstood.  (By the way-I believe he was stating that his son has gone into that county school system for 5 years-I don't believe he was making a statement that his son has five years of HIGH SCHOOL eligibility.....he must have gone into that county for middle school as well.)  Some counties allow kids of their employees to attend any school within the county that their parent is employed.  They need not live in the district.  As long as they wrestle for the school that they go to, then this is perfectly acceptable by KHSAA rules. 

It is really not all that complicated in regards to eligibility.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Wrestlewatcher you are correct. Perhaps I was not clear in my example. My son was enrolled in Mason County as a seventh grader on Oct 14, 2004. On October 15, 2004, the day wrestling season started, we enrolled him into Campbell County. He wrestled varsity for CC that year. Providing he didn't participate in a varsity sport, he was immediately eligible to wrestle varsity for CC. We continue to live in Mason county and he has been wrestling varsity for CC ever since. Yes, he commutes over one hour each way.

There are a few caveats. First, the out of district school does not have to accept him as a student. Fortunately, he was a distinguished straight "A" student without behavioral issues. CC wanted him both academically and athletically. Second, I still have to pay tuition to CC each semester.

My advice, which was free, was pick a school you want your child to wrestle for. Contact the school and ask if they will accept him. This must be done prior to high school and prior to him participating in a varsity sport. He should be eligible throughout high school at that out of district school according to KHSAA.

[archibaldhumperdink 0]

If you want the kid to grow as a wrestler then move up with his age group.  He will not benefit from pumeling younger kids.  Also academics are affected the same way.  Hey what good is winning state if I am two years older than you at 8th grade.  I realize I dont have all the details here but jeeze common sense must take over at some point...right??