Eligibility questions

[kids 0]

Any advice / information on the following would be appreciated:

1. Is it better to hold back a wrestler in MS that is academically passing in order to gain an extra year of development in wrestling.

2. Does this give them advantage as a student athelete for college recruitment?

3. If you live out of school distrct for the team you want to wrestle for how can you do it without moving into the district?  Are there any options for out of district wrestlers.

4. Can you do this in Boone County in any way?  I need better options for my wrestler, any suggestions outside of moving on or off the books is appreciated?  There are risk with any under the table options so please explain them for my education.

[Mr Granby 0]

I dont know about three or four but as for one and two i hope you are kidding.  That is the most ridiculous thing ive ever heard and i know people do it.  I think it would ruin a kids social life and if he is PASSING why would you consider holding him back????? Serious problem there, wrestling is  SPORT and that comes after ACADEMICS.  thats why its called a student athlete. 

[kids 0]

Actually I am quite serious and want to know from parents who have actually done this.  Please feel free to send private message to me and thanks for the information.  Again, I am trying to gain knowledge and full understanding of how to best manage my child and his athletic gift.  Serious opportunity is at stake and an extra year of education is also a plus in my book anyway.  I am not so worried about the girl friends he can have all that he wants in college.

Also, any college coaches seeing this topic please let me know how it is viewed or not by recruiters.  An extra year of growth, strength training, and experience prior to college being a plus or a non issue when looking at a prospect and their stats. 

I mean no offense to anyone but the facts are it is not breaking any rules if the schools allow the parent to hold the kid back and they are still eligible to compete.  This is comming from one that had a full athletic scholarship and wants the best opportunity for his son to do the same.

[grapplearms 0]

If your kid is that good I suggest moving to Urbana, OH.  See St. Paris Graham thread under High School Wrestling for more information.

[wrestlesmart 15]

I tend to agree if you are looking to make your son a serious prospect he just needs to spend more time on the mat and attend some of the better camps that are offered and provide good instruction, but it still doesn't guarantee anything.  I don't see the benefit of holding him back because the kids that are good are good because they train hard and compete against the best competition to prepare themselves.  I would never hold my child back in school because of a sport, his academics, not athletics are always first.

[kids 0]

1. Guys, I think we are disconnected here.  ACADEMICS are not being sacrificed at all.  I do not accept one without the other or he does not get to participate in sports.  He is a straight A type student.  Repeating a year of school conpromises none of that.  If anything it gives him another year of academics and athletics.

2. Not only is he academically sound, he is also gifted with athletic ability.  Make no mistake, both are just as important in my opinion.  His future has opportunity in both.  There are lots of ways to earn a living these days if you have a degree behind you in the sport world and/or the business world.  His choice, I just want him to have the opportunity to make it either way and take full advantage of his highschool and elementary years.   

3. Sports and academics both teach kids the skills and values needed to be successful in life.  All kids should compete in some type of sport in my opinion.  Enough can not be said for the values sports teach kids for life in general.  Look at our nation and the barriers sports broke down just as example of where i am comming from on that.

4. I am trying to see negatives here but honestly I am not so far.  Paris Gram is loaded with kids that have been held back and now compete at the very top of highschool wrestling.  Most of their wrestlers are already signed with D1 colleges.  If they are the example then I have my answer because they are dominating the sport nationally.  I wonder if the extra years of working in top notch environments give them an even greater edge????  Proof in the pudding kinda thing there I think. :? 

5. We currently attend Jordan's camp in the summer, golden cross club during our own wrestling season in KY and several football camps as he plays that sport as well.  Academically he is in advanced placement classes, orchestra, and several other school clubs.  Anyway, why should he be penalized or put at a disadvantage of 1 year's development opportunity for his success?

[tiltfor3 20]

This is comming from one that had a full athletic scholarship and wants the best opportunity for his son to do the same.

Seems to me that your parents did right by you. Maybe you should ask them.

[dagger 7]

Sounds like you have your mind made up and just want someone to agree with you. Bottom line is you do what you think is best for your son and that is all that matters!!!!!!!!!!!!

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Athletic eligibility only occurs for the 4 years of high school. Even if you live in a different county, district, etc, you can still attend and be eligible for athletics immediately if you're still in middle school or never competed in a varsity sport.

For example, 8th grade Johnny can wrestle on Monday for Team A, his district team.  On Tuesday he decides he wants to wrestle for Team B, an out of district school. Johnny can be varsity on Team B on Tuesday and be eligible according to KHSAA because it doesn't apply to non high school kids. The following year, he can still live out of district and be eligible to wrestle varsity on Team B according to KHSAA.

Eligibility starts in grade 9. KHSAA was contemplating  extending eligibility into middle school, however, as of yet, I don't believe they have done so.

Therefore, pick a school, any school, and start sending your middle schooler to that program. He will forever be eligible providing he is enrolled in that school. You will likely have to pay tuition to the public school if your district school does not release the Average Daily Attendance(ADA) money.

[wrestler123 0]

I can

[prpdad 0]

Anyone that can achieve their goals at 18 years of age, can achieve their goals at 17 years of age with hard work and determination.  Whoever you are talking about needs to bust their ass in the weight room and more importantly, the matroom and get better. 

To ask a kid to sacrifice a year in school just to satisfy a parent's or coach's ego is just plain rediculous.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I can

[wrestler123 0]

If the kids excelling in the academic field he should be ok in college and not depend on the college ride. I can think of some wrestlers who have stayed back and its not panned out for them but I will not discuss names. I do know Kyle Rushchell, John Fahy, Brad Hitchings, and most of the top wrestlers in this state have not given up that year. I just feel if your that "gifted" then why are you not wanting to wrestle up at the next level instead of staying behind continuing to beat up on kids. To me it sounds like he is not so gifted but maybe behind and trying to gain a competitive edge. Holding kids back for sports is nuts. Like posted before they are Student Athletes.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Brad will be 18 when he graduates.  And if I'm not mistaken not a "just turned 18 at graudation".  In no way is that a swing at Brad who I think is a great kid.  But would you say he will be more of a D1 prospect this year or next?  He's done great things already and will probably do more great things next year.  With any kind of luck in his semis match at the Beast of the east he could have made the finals.  Instead he got 5th.  If his parents had started him in school early waaaaayyyy back in Kindergarten, before his parents even knew he would excel at sports....that would have been his only shot.  NOW..he will be able to get 1 more shot at winning the Beast of the East.  That's a big difference.  I don't think he was held back, but the point is he'll be a mature 18 year old when he graduates.  I think it does make a difference.  I think "kids" is looking for what is the pros/cons of doing this.  I just don't see what's the harm in doing that.  Of course you don't depend on the college ride.  That would be foolish.  But don't plan on it absolutely not being there.  His boy may be 6'0" 210 with washboard abs in the 8th grade. 

[heavy83 15]

KIDS STRAIGHT FROM THE KHSAA HANDBOOK. A STUDENT REPEATING THE 8th GRADE MAY NOT REPRESENT A HIGH SCHOOL AT ANY LEVEL. IN ADDITION, IF PARENTS RETAIN A STUDENT IN THE 8th AFTER THE STUDENT HAS BEEN PROMOTED, THEN THAT STUDENT WILL LOSE HIS OR HER SENIOR YEAR OF ELIGIBILITY.  So if he is an "A" student the school would have no choice to promote him. Hopefully this helps in your decision.

[tiltfor3 20]

Athletic eligibility only occurs for the 4 years of high school. Even if you live in a different county, district, etc, you can still attend and be eligible for athletics immediately if you're still in middle school or never competed in a varsity sport.

For example, 8th grade Johnny can wrestle on Monday for Team A, his district team.  On Tuesday he decides he wants to wrestle for Team B, an out of district school. Johnny can be varsity on Team B on Tuesday and be eligible according to KHSAA because it doesn't apply to non high school kids. The following year, he can still live out of district and be eligible to wrestle varsity on Team B according to KHSAA.

Eligibility starts in grade 9. KHSAA was contemplating  extending eligibility into middle school, however, as of yet, I don't believe they have done so.

Therefore, pick a school, any school, and start sending your middle schooler to that program. He will forever be eligible providing he is enrolled in that school. You will likely have to pay tuition to the public school if your district school does not release the Average Daily Attendance(ADA) money.

Be careful of any "free advice". It is usually worth what you paid for it.

[wrestler123 0]

Brad will be 18 when he graduates.  And if I'm not mistaken not a "just turned 18 at graudation".  In no way is that a swing at Brad who I think is a great kid.  But would you say he will be more of a D1 prospect this year or next?  He's done great things already and will probably do more great things next year.  With any kind of luck in his semis match at the Beast of the east he could have made the finals.  Instead he got 5th.  If his parents had started him in school early waaaaayyyy back in Kindergarten, before his parents even knew he would excel at sports....that would have been his only shot.  NOW..he will be able to get 1 more shot at winning the Beast of the East.  That's a big difference.  I don't think he was held back, but the point is he'll be a mature 18 year old when he graduates.  I think it does make a difference.  I think "kids" is looking for what is the pros/cons of doing this.  I just don't see what's the harm in doing that.  Of course you don't depend on the college ride.  That would be foolish.  But don't plan on it absolutely not being there.  His boy may be 6'0" 210 with washboard abs in the 8th grade. 

As far as this helping him attend here are some names off the top of my head of wrestlers from this state who signed with any college last year. Mason Reid, Bryan Peace, Travis Sullivan, Mitch Ervin. 4 wrestlers out of the whole state who were able to gain a college scholarship from wrestling. Travis didnt even recieve one because their are no "scholarships" in NAIA. You may not see the harm in it but where are your morals, what happend to having pride and taking pride in what you earn. Holding him back to beat up kids for another year assuming he is beating up on them now is not taking pride. Will it destory this kid mentally and emotionally no not at all. But take some pride!!

[pioneer_pride 1]

"Pride in what you earn" :? :?

The rules are the rules.  If the kid is eligible if he is held back, and the parents choose to do so....if he becomes a state champ his senior year..he earned it.  That kid will have pride in what he accomplished.  He shouldn't give a crap that people come on this site and say "yea, i saw little johnny driving the school bus his freshman year".  This kid might be a very talented athlete and I'm sorry I see it differently than you, but athletics is a BIG part of a kid's high school experience not to mention an opportunity for some kids to attend schools that they would have absolutely no other means to attend.  As long as they follow the rules/guidelines set up by the khsaa, it's legit.  I think we just see don't see eye to eye on this, not a big deal.

[Dutch1873 0]

KIDS STRAIGHT FROM THE KHSAA HANDBOOK. A STUDENT REPEATING THE 8th GRADE MAY NOT REPRESENT A HIGH SCHOOL AT ANY LEVEL. IN ADDITION, IF PARENTS RETAIN A STUDENT IN THE 8th AFTER THE STUDENT HAS BEEN PROMOTED, THEN THAT STUDENT WILL LOSE HIS OR HER SENIOR YEAR OF ELIGIBILITY.  So if he is an "A" student the school would have no choice to promote him. Hopefully this helps in your decision.

I think we can call this discussion a moot point after reading the statement from the KHSAA rule book.

but....

1) If your child is an A student then holding him back will not help him academically since he will not be learning anything new. He will be bored and unmotivated to deal with information he has already worked to learn. This can possibly lead to lower grades since he won't be challenged to learn old material. I would also imagine that the school administration won't look kindly upon this action.

2)As a Certified Athletic Trainer, I have worked at the D1, D2 and high school level. I have worked with athletes that have gone on to play professionally and I have worked with athletes that have worked hard and earned quality degrees. Only three of all the athletes I have worked with have gone pro (2 in the NFL, one played basketball in Europe). I have never had an athlete tell me that they were able to get a scholarship because they were held back for a year.

3) If you are worried about paying for college, and that is a very valid worry, then apply for academic scholarships. There are litterally, millions of dollars in academic money that can be earned. In fact most scholarships earned today are academic and not athletic.

[wrestler123 0]

Just because its allowed does it make it right? He should work his tail off to accomplish his goals in the time he is supposed to. It's OK for football players to transfer to highlands to play football so they can build an elite football team but is this fair? Is it morally correct? This is a stupid trend that should not be started. Sports are a big part of kids life in school but in 15 years or more it does not matter. When your walking around no one gives to craps if you a state champ or a state chump. School is for academics not to build athletes. If you feel that this is fair to the other kids then your wrong and thats all there is to it. How would you feel if your son was a Sr. and he never got held back worked his tail off and got beat in the State finals by a guy who had been held back. I would bet you would say its not fair. Just because people do it does not make it right. The KHSAA rules only allow you to do it in case of academic problems. Its ignorant things like this that take advantage of loop holes.

[Trent 0]

Sheldon Clark use to do this to kids all the time and they got away with it until coaches started complaining. They would hold them back their 8th grade year. A couple of them won the state middle school championship both their first 8th grade year and their 2nd 8th grade years.

The coach even sent out an email to justify holding the kids back., bunch of bull if you ask me. very bad coaching ethics. They got by with it because there was no rule in the kmswa that said a wrestler repeating a grade was ineligible.

you can do what you want, its your kid but yes it will be frowned apon and even called down right cheating by a majority of people.

I'm sorry for calling out SC but this is common knowledge that people that have been involved in KY wrestling and the KMSWA have known for years. Its not silly accusations. Its the truth.

[wrestler123 0]

Hey man how have those two kids done since being hold back can you tell me??? I dont think either have become state champs or on pace to! How about that competitive edge? Where is the guy who started this post?

[Guest Full Quarter]

Come on "Kids," we're talking about Kentucky wrestling.  I'm not denigrating KY wrestling, but you're barking up the wrong tree if you're trying to develop a D1 champ.  The experience my son received wrestling in KHSAA has been invaluable in transforming him from a boy to a man.  I'm glad he chose to wrestle and I'm glad we were in KY when he did it.

If you're son is as gifted as you were/you want him to be, send him to a private school like Trinity (great coaches, great program) or move out of state to pursue YOUR dream.  If not, let him dominate the KY wrestling scene with his classmates, enjoy his high school days, and graduate to become a productive member of society.

We've had a handful of wrestlers that could compete on the national collegiate wrestling level.  Good for them, and I hope your son can join them.  We've had hundreds of wrestlers who used the sport to learn the life skills to become productive members of society.  I'm just as proud of them as I am of Ruschell when he places 2nd at The Midlands.  To me , wrestling is a resource we can use to teach young men about overcoming adversity and the benefits of hard work.  If you are expecting more from KY wrestling, you may want to reassess your goals or change your address.

[ccbcdeke 43]

To me , wrestling is a resource we can use to teach young men about overcoming adversity and the benefits of hard work.  If you are expecting more from KY wrestling, you may want to reassess your goals or change your address.

Dang...that was harsh

[snap-drag 0]

Sheldon Clark use to do this to kids all the time and they got away with it until coaches started complaining. They would hold them back their 8th grade year. A couple of them won the state middle school championship both their first 8th grade year and their 2nd 8th grade years.

The coach even sent out an email to justify holding the kids back., bunch of bull if you ask me. very bad coaching ethics. They got by with it because there was no rule in the kmswa that said a wrestler repeating a grade was ineligible.

you can do what you want, its your kid but yes it will be frowned apon and even called down right cheating by a majority of people.

I'm sorry for calling out SC but this is common knowledge that people that have been involved in KY wrestling and the KMSWA have known for years. Its not silly accusations. Its the truth.

Trent just for the record your full of crap!!!  You will name Sheldon Clark when all kind of other schools hold kids back.  They are several schools just in our region who have more hold backs than SC.  And I also know for a fact that several schools in the Louisville are have several hold backs on their team. You need to be more informed before you start calling people out by name.  It makes you look ignorant.  And to act like people hold their children back for wrestling is even more ridiculous.  Just get your facts right before you start running your mouth on SC.