Bluegrass Challenge?

[3/4nelson 0]

I challenge a school and coach to successfully and competently run an off season tournament in Kentucky. That means kids don't wait for 7 hours in a gym before wrestling their first match and then wrestling 3-5 times in less than 70 minutes, etc, etc, etc, etc!!! Today's tournament was good for Lafayette's concession stand budget, but otherwise a disgrace for Kentucky!

[snapdown133 0]

I challenge a school and coach to successfully and competently run an off season tournament in Kentucky. That means kids don't wait for 7 hours in a gym before wrestling their first match and then wrestling 3-5 times in less than 70 minutes, etc, etc, etc, etc!!! Today's tournament was good for Lafayette's concession stand budget, but otherwise a disgrace for Kentucky!

Ha ha.. awesome comment.  Nothing seems to run smooth in this state when it comes to a wrestling tournament.

[wrestlingmom 9]

I think it is a given that when you wrestle in a tourney this big that you are going to have to wait.....that's Kentucky wrestling (atleast in my experience).  I think the younger kids brackets went pretty smoothly.  Congrats to all the winners!!!

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

No No No! We should not have to wait.

I am curious, do all tennis players show up at 9 am and wait for 7 hours to play their first match.  Of course not!  Tennis has staggered start times.

Today should have been divided into 2 groups; young kids or lighter weights from 9-noon and older or heavier kids from 1-4pm. That way all of us would not have to sit on antiquated wooden bleachers for 8-10 hours to watch our wrestler. Total disrespect to all involved! And yet, the tournament directors, in their convoluted minds, expect us to thank them for them running this tournament. No thanks will come from this ticked off parent.

On a positive note, the concession stand made alot of money.

[Guest cmccoy]

I have never been one to ask for thanks. I do this job for FREE. In fact, everyone involved is a volunteer except the four referees. This includes myself as the Sports Chair. I apologize that some kids had a wait and others did not. We wrestled oh...372 matches and were finished by 5:45. That is pretty good time for any tournament. Again, I do not want your thanks, gratitude, etc. It kills me how people in KY devote their time, energy, and money out of their pocket to make wrestling better yet get crapped on by its own participants and spectators. That is OK. I will keep working to build wrestling in KY no matter what negativity comes my way.

[wrestlingmom 9]

Chris & staff

I think you guys did an outstanding job today.  The individuals fussing are usually the ones that would be scared to death to take on a task like this.  Thanks for all that you do for the sport and keep up the good work.....can't wait until next year!!!!!

[ckywrestlingfan 0]

I think the staff at Lafayette did an excellent job. Coach McCoy keep up the good work.

[BD 0]

Any results or good matches?

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Spare me the sap! 7 hours of waiting is NOT acceptable, period. It is disrespectful. Rather than asking for nose tissue and sympathy from the bleeding heart wrestlingmoms, why don't you answer why you didn't separate wrestlers rather than intentionally making them wait an inordinant amount of time. Answer that first!

I will give thanks when thanks is deserved. Coach, you ran this tournament for one reason only, to get money for your wrestling team. Don't sugar coat it. 

[3/4nelson 0]

Keeping wrestlers and fans trapped in a gym for 7 hours before wrestling a single match is cruel and inconsiderate. Do you really expect those parents and wrestlers to thank you? Next year separate them by ages or weights. Your concession stand will suffer, but maybe then you will have people say thanks. I have been going to Ohio tournaments for years and never experienced this kind of treatment. Maybe people in Ohio demand and expect more than us Kentucky folks.

[3/4nelson 0]

The last hour of the tournament was a joke. 

Many matches were forfeited because the wrestlers got tired and went home.

Championship matches were forfeited.

It was a sad bitter finish to what could have been a great tournemant.

If the planners knew they were going to finish all of the younger kids brackets before even starting the older kids, they should have staggered the start times.

For those who remained until the tournament's conclusion, it was not pretty. It was indeed SAD!

[thegreatgatsby 23]

Enough whining and crying.  Anyone have any results?

[Mathound 4]

And exactly how many of you complaining actually pre-registered? You expect to have a tournament with 200+ kids of all ages done before 5pm when only 20-30 kids pre-register? You expect brackets to be completed and filled out magically for this many kids when (i'm not sure about this year but in the past you could wrestle more than one weight class)?

And I bet all of you complaining volunteered your own time to help didn't you?

[Guest]

Wow - I feel like some of these comments are so middle school. The concession stand comments are absolutely UNNECESSARY. Do you all even know Coach McCoy & the people at Lafayette? Your opinion is the most skewed I've seen... you have no idea how much work Lafayette wretlers & parents put into their program, fundraising, etc.

If you're going to whine & say something is disrespectful, don't follow it by rude & childish comments. Say something constructive. DO something constructive. Make comments that can help the people running the tournament make it better.

I'm only 23 and I feel a lot older than some of the people making these completely uncalled for remarks. Get used to waiting... that's part of wrestling... and saying all of this negative crap about Kentucky wrestling only hinders the sport even more.

Here's an idea - do something useful.

To the boys that wrestled/won - Good job!!! Can't wait for the season to start and see everyone, I've heard there are a lot of good competitors this year!!!! Enjoy the rest of summer, boys!!!

[ref9137 0]

anyone that has ever been a part of wrestling knows you wait.  I grew up in Ohio and did most of my wrestling there and they have the waits as well.  No matter where you go you will wait.  The amount of volunteer hours that go into this tournament is crazy.  I was one of the referees today and I was willing to volunteer my time.  I did not even know until I got there today I was going to be paid.  These summer tournaments are designed for one reason.....to make Kentucky wrestlers better.  You cannot get better by not wrestling.  I am sorry for those that had to wait.  But like Mathound said...did you preregister?  The more work that can be done 1 week or 2 weeks before makes everything go smoother. 

Congrats to all of the wrestlers that competed and thanks to Coach McCoy for running the tournament.  This man will do anything he can to help grow KY wrestling.  We need more coaches like that out there!!!

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

If you are fed garbage all your life then you are happy to eat garbage. Yesterdays tournament was garbage and it didn't have to be.

Suggestions

1. Pre-register, give a deadline to register, notice the word DEAD line. No one will be allowed to register beyond the DEAD line. Teachers and coaches, start TEACHING these young students in life there are DEAD lines. Miss the DEAD line, you can't wrestle. Again, teachers and coaches, expect more from your wrestlers and perhaps you will get more. Expect mediocrity and that is what you will receive. 

2. Don't expect grandparents and spectators to sit on a wooden bench for 7 hours before they ever see their child wrestle. It is not fair and will result in them not returning for future matches. That decreases attendance and results in fewer fans, etc. Kentucky wrestling declines.

3. Give staggered times. 2 sessions would have resolved the issue.

Personally, I find it offensive that people like Mathound and Coach McCoy expect accolades for simply running a tournament. Spare me the time and volunteer whining. When you volunteer to run a tournament, which results in several thousand dollars generated for your wrestling team via concessions, you have choices. Run a good tournament or a bad tournament. Yesterday's tournament was bad. Kentucky wrestling was not advanced forward yesterday. Waiting in a gym during July for 7 hours before wrestling your first match was disrespectful.

It remains sad that during all of this bantering the simple solution is 2 sessions, one for youths and one for older wrestlers.  Yet our teachers and coaches can't seem to grasp this simple concept. Year after year this suggestion is made to BGSG yet fans and wrestlers are still subjected to garbage. IF YOU KNOW IT WILL BE 7 HOURS BEFORE  THE OLDER KIDS WILL WRESTLE THEIR FIRST MATCH, DON'T HAVE THEM SHOW UP AT 9 AM, HAVE THEM COME IN AT 2 OR 3 PM. 

Next year, the BGSG will have over 200 wrestlers. Stagger the times and everyone will pat Mathound on the head and tell him what a good job he did. Until then, bad dog for yesterdays tournament. Your face needs to be rubbed in the garbage.

I don't give teachers and coaches free rides for just showing up. Likewise, I don't believe in giving wrestlers free rides for just showing up. If you are going to willingly participate, then give it your best. I fail to accept yesterday's BGSG was Kentucky's best.

[rebelyell 0]

The wait times were brutal. The parents of the younger kids probably thought the tournament was great, afterall, it started on time and their brackets were completed in a timely manner. The older kids sat and waited and waited and waited. The end of the tournament was a debacle.

Losers were advanced into the finals and the mistake not uncovered until after the championship match was wrestled. Many wrestlers left and never even wrestled their championship match because they had already wrestled 4 times in just over an hour. At the end of the tournament, kids were standing on the mat waiting for their opponent to show up when in fact they had already left the building. The announcer kept saying over the intercom "the tournament is not over people". The end was a fizzle at best.

During the day one wrestler won a match 8-6, his hand was raised, the wrestler signed the bracket and went into the stands. Both wrestlers left the mat.  5 minutes later both wrestlers were called back to the mat over the intercom. They were told the match was tied. This broke all rules. Now the wrestler who won got to face an opponent mad and determined to win in overtime. The initial winner now lost in overtime. After winning a match there is a psychological deflation. Wrestlers need to prepare for a match both physically and mentally. When both wrestlers left the mat, the bout sheet signed and turned in, the match was over. To pull the winner out of the stands 5 minutes later,  was wrong.

Overall, yesterday was a poor display of what should otherwise be Kentucky's finest. 

[bulldog-leader 56]

    I was not there but I have run numerous tourneys, granted they were mostly high school events.

    Usually events run long because of poor planning.  Sometimes events cause tourneys to run long (power outages, computer malfunctions, late teams, Injuries ect. ect.)

    Here are the two reasons Ky (yes I say Ky) wrestling events take so long.  

     

    1.  Score or bracket keeper.  Many times these people are not proficient in bracket logy or score keeping.  They depend on the computer to do all the work.  Or they are not familiar with the computer program.  (I still claim that I can run a tournament by hand faster than the computer).  Even if all the contestants are last minute the names and brackets can be put into the computer and printed out in 30-60 minutes.  Color code weight sheets for age groups and separate the weights while they are being sent in.  This way when you are ready to put them into the computer they are already sorted out.  Have a backup manual (paper) bracket (mandatory).  This way if the computer malfunctions the paper copy will still be correct and the tournament can continue.  This requires either 2 extremely qualified scorekeepers or 4 moderately qualified scorekeepers.  A runner for every 2 mats and a system of getting the boutsheets to the mats.  

    2.  Poor planning.  You should anticipate the same number of kids or 10% more than last year.  If you do this then you can plan the sessions.  If the sessions go faster than anticipated that is usually a good thing and this will give you a chance to give your volunteers a QUICK break.   This allows you to pace yourself.  If you are falling behind you know that you must do something to get back on time.  You can call these goals if you want but try to stick with the goals.  I would also recommend a system of one match wrestling on the mat and two other bout sheets already waiting at the table.  To do this you must also have one competent person at each table to coordinate this.  

    Once again I was not there (but I plan on being there next year with my son), and some of these may have been done.  I know personally if the tournament does not meet my high expectations I am embarrassed.

    When I ran the regional tournament a few years ago I ran it with a team of 4 wrestlers in which only one set of parents helped out.  The person who ran the computer could do the tournament with a blindfold.  I assisted him and found an old assistant coach (because I had no assistant that year) who coached my kids when they were on the mat.  I found 4 competent parents/ex-wrestlers to run each table.  My plan was to have the tournament over at latest 6 (if not 4-5) and home by 8.  We finished an hour late and I didn't get home until 10.  I was mad because I did not reach my goal.  Some of the time problems were unforeseen but we started 10-15 minutes late, we had to hand write the 1st round of bout sheets because of a printer malfunction) (I should have printed them earlier) and I was not very organized on the distribution of awards.  

    This is my constructive criticism and my observation after over 20 years in Ky wrestling.  I know running a summer event is more of a headache than anyone wants.  I commend you on tacking on this task, but it sounds like some improvement is needed.  

   Please continue to run tournaments much like wrestling you only get better if you continue to host events and try to improve yourself.  Chalk this one as a bad outing and come back next time and win everyone

[CoachK 2]

For 3/4 nelson and pinned em all....I am sure coach mccoy would be more than happy to accept your help for  next years tournament and see if you have any positive input to make it run smoother and easier.  He can be contacted directly by you and you can volunteer your time as he and thousands of others have to make tournaments go.  This has to be the hardest tournament in the state to run due to the type it is.  A high school tournament you basically know 99% of the kids that are going to be there and their weight etc.  This tournament is usually a guess until after everyone registers and weighs in....you just don't know.  Kids (and adults, forgot that) can wrestle in two age and weight classes and so that makes it hard to do as well.  Staggering the times for them would make it difficult for them as well because they would have to be there for both and wouldn't leave...there isn't a great solution to this unless you get 100 more participants for it and only let them wrestle in one age and weight group and require everyone to be preregistered or don't wrestle...but that won't happen.  Did both of your kids pre-register prior to the event, if you did good, if not why?  You just added to the hassle of taking care of it.  I think Mccoy does a great job for an off season event and devotes alot of time to it.  As far as the concession stand comments go that's just being a baby.  That's the only way to get money and everyone knows it so quite crying.  Unless you want to come and be a referee and do it for free with 3 of your buddies so the entrant fee doesn't go towards paying them and then the concessions can be dropped down.  Or maybe you can run the tournament and we can hold it at your school and see how well you do..that would be the ultimate option and see how you cope with it.  My thoughts would be you couldn't handle it...I would bet on that. 

[CoachK 2]

The first part of teaching has to come from the home and honestly now a days that isn't happening and so it's falling like you say on the coaches and teachers to do that...when it isn't up to them.  If the dead line was made and there were 30 wrestlers there you would hear so many negative comments on how the tournament was low and no participants and others saying how it was unfair they weren't allowed to register the day of the tournament, etc.  I am sure you would be on here whining about something then too. 

Parents and grandparents sit on bleachers to see kids because they love them and want to support them (for those few that do) and good for them I applaud them too and if that is the worst thing you have to do to support your kids you have a great time and very little to ask. 

Mccoy and mathound don't ask for applaud or expect applaud, they just want kids to come out and wrestle and the parents to support them as well.  I wasn't at this years but for the past 10 or so I have seen I would be willing to bet that more than half of the high school aged kids didn't have any parents in the stands to watch them, which is higher than at high school events as I would say that is more like 75% of parents don't come.  They don't expect praise and don't really care about your bashing them either but they continue to support wrestling year after year and i am sure they will well after you are (thankfully)gone as well as hundreds of others..

1. Pre-register, give a deadline to register, notice the word DEAD line. No one will be allowed to register beyond the DEAD line. Teachers and coaches, start TEACHING these young students in life there are DEAD lines. Miss the DEAD line, you can't wrestle. Again, teachers and coaches, expect more from your wrestlers and perhaps you will get more. Expect mediocrity and that is what you will receive. 

2. Don't expect grandparents and spectators to sit on a wooden bench for 7 hours before they ever see their child wrestle. It is not fair and will result in them not returning for future matches. That decreases attendance and results in fewer fans, etc. Kentucky wrestling declines.

[Guest The Great And Powerful Oz]

Kalen, and any others who are offended by 3/4 nelson & I-pinned-em-all's comments.  They are right, you are wrong.  You can not expect people to be happy with a 6-7 hour wait time.  To say that "that's Kentucky wrestling" is a cop out.  Yes, it happens a lot here, yes, it happens else where too, but the only way it will get better is for people to speak up.  You and others may not like their tone, but I hope it encourages Coach McCoy and those involved to try to address this issue.  And to wrestlingmom who says you should expect that, sadly you are right.  We do expect it, but not because we should, just because that's the way they all are in this state.  Go to the Ohio Tournament of Champions, a 1 day tournament with 3000+ wrestlers.  It is completely organized, you know when you will be up (bout numbers), I don't have to watch all the older kids wrestle to get to see my young kids wrestle....why?  staggered start times.  It's not a coincidence that tournament is almost flawless every year, it's planning and organization.  There are many others in Ohio I've been to that are just as organized.  There is a trade off for that, it obviously takes more time to plan for the orgnanizers...but the result will be much more happy fans and participants.  That is good for the sport.  Think about the parents who are new to this sport, who aren't die-hards.  Sitting in a gym for 7 hours to watch a first match?  Compare that to baseball, football, soccer, or just about any other sport, and simply put...we are doing something wrong in this sport.  

We CAN do much better than yesterday's tournament in this state.  What we shouldn't be doing here is squashing the people who have the ***** to step up and call people out on this.  They want to see the sport do well just like all the rest of us do (Coach McCoy & Mathound included)  Coach McCoy, don't get defensive about it.  If you don't like the people complaining, then address the issues.  Make a plan to do better next year.  If you need help, find it.

[Guest The Great And Powerful Oz]

CoachK, with all due respect...do you think waiting 7 hours for a kid's first match is acceptable?  This is simply a yes or no question, no one needs a big lecture on parenting or the love of grandparents.  The point is, and maybe 3/4 nelson & IPEA are coming across as angry, but they are right that this is not acceptable.  The majority of people get on here and bash on anyone complaining as "whinners", that's BS.  They are patriots, and love this sport.  They have legitimate complaints!!!  It can be done better, and the only reason the BGSG crew is getting bashed on is because they fail to even make an effort to make it better - year after year.  I'm not a betting man, but I would place a wager that next year's tournament will be just like this year (and all the other years) - LONG WAITS.  Everyone involved in this sport needs to listen to the people, and correct this.  Dont be defensive, just learn from past mistakes and make it better next year.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

CoachK, you are not making sense.

You state if 2 sessions were held then SOME kids would have to sit through both sessions in order to wrestle different weights and ages.

Well, as it is now, EVERYONE has to sit and wait through what is effectively 2 sessions. If a wrestler CHOOSES to wrestle in both sessions, than that is his choice. But, to make everyone sit through both sessions is wrong.

You state that more than half, more like 75%, of the kids don't have parents in the stands. Perhaps parents are tired of sitting in bleachers for hours and NOT seeing their child wrestle. Perhaps they are tired of the bedlam. If I represent any component of the 25% of parents in the stands, then hear what I am saying. Interestingly, in Ohio, where tournaments are usually fast and smooth, the stands are full of spectators.

Coach McCoy posted the wrestling attendance at the BGSG for the last several years prior to this years event. Remember, it was a challenge to set attendance records. Therefore, based on the last several years, it was anticipated the wrestler attendance would exceed > 200. There were no surprises CoachK, just poor planning or absolute refusal to do things differently than the past.

My comment regarding the concession stand is accurate. I realize the economic impact of running a sport. I was a high school wrestling coach for 3 years. Yesterday's tournament forced wrestlers and fans to remain in the gym waiting for their name to be called. There was little organization and the calling of brackets and names was a potpouri. This prevented fans/wrestlers from leaving to eat and forced purchases through the concession stand. I always patronize every concession stand and support high school programs. I simply don't appreciate being forced to sit through 2 sessions when there was never any intention to have the older, heavier kids wrestle until mid- afternoon.

I didn't like sitting around all day waiting to see a defending state champion wrestle a state runner-up, only to have the champ forfeit the final match due to all matches being crammed into a brief time frame.

I too, didn't like seeing wrestlers who lost in the semi's advanced to the finals and having the error discovered after the championship match was finished. Especially, when it was my child who was supposed to be in the finals.

Kentucky wrestling goes through generational phases. By the time parents of younger wrestlers have been around long enough to realize these tournaments are poorly run, their child graduates. The next batch of parents don't realize until years later things can be done better. I am now the parent of an older child and will not commend this kind of poor planning. In fact, I find it offensive.

CoachK, I personally expect more out of Kentucky wrestling. I expect improvements each year, even if minor improvements.  I expect the people who run the tournament to carefully read these comments and understand the reason for the negative feedback.  Respect is a two way street. I guarentee no successful business, school, wrestling tournament, or classroom allows their patrons to sit idle for 7 hours. 

I will ask again, knowing there will be over 200 wrestlers next year, will there be two sessions or one smashed together session? 

[Zeus 117]

Wow.  First of all I want to thank Coach McCoy for all of his hard work and effort.  While I have never put on a wrestling tournament of any kind myself my dad did run the WCI for a number of years so I am familiar with some of the struggles of running one.  That being said the BGSGs has to be much more difficult because, as previously stated, you have no idea of how many, what age groups, weight classes, etc. until that morning.

I will agree that yesterday's tournament, when compared to states and others, was poorly run.  However, that does not give anyone the right to come on here and ostracize the tournament directors.  If you want to criticize then give suggestions (see bulldog-leader's post) on how to make it better instead of blindly rambling on and on about the concessions, wait times, and everything else.  For those of you who are comparing us to Ohio I say go on and move there, we don't want you here.  Those of us who are doing everything we can to help the sport grow do not appreciate your comparing KY, which I will admit is not the best wrestling state, to arguably the best state in the country.  I have been to the Ohio TOC and I can tell you that those directors are paid for running that tournament.  Coach McCoy, in addition to his personal life, and his career is doing this and not asking for anything in return.  Did they make money off concessions?  Of course they did.  But they probably had to rent the gym, pay the janitors to clean up after you, pay the officials (who did a pretty good job) and a whole host of other hidden costs.

I, like Coach McCoy am trying to help the sport grow in Kentucky.  But honestly, if it really bothers you that much how the tournament was run then don't come back next year because we don't need your negativity.  That's the beauty of it, all you lost was a Saturday and 25 bucks so loosen up a little.

[Guest]

I do not disagree with constructive criticism, and knowing Coach McCoy well, I know he is taking legitimate comments to heart.

The problem is - when you come here & you make disrespectful remarks & extremely rude assumptions - your concerns start lacking validity. For example - which one seems more constructive/likely to be listened to:

------

Coach McCoy - next year could we think about doing the tournament differently? The wait times were awful, many wrestlers had to forfeit, and I feel like a KY Wrestling tournament could go a lot smoother. I'd be willing to volunteer my time & experience to make this tournament a better one. I'm disappointed and I hope we can work on this.

------

VS

Coach McCoy - you & Mathound deserve no respect or acknowledgment, all you want is concession money, you never listen to us, and your tournament was horrible.  My expectations are WAY higher than this. You deserve no rewards and I know that's what you want! Now fix it!

------

Oh and how could I forget this quote:

Your face needs to be rubbed in the garbage.

For the person who said that, I really pray you are not an adult. That is the saddest, most disrespectful comment I've ever seen and I am ashamed of you. Your input is disqualified after you say harsh & cocky statements like that. Learn to have some tact, please.

For people complaining with respect - I encourage you to call / email Coach McCoy. He is very easy to work with (if you haven't worked with him). He loves this sport & I know that if given constructively, your criticism will not be ignored.