16 Man Brackets at State

[hacker 0]

Does anybody here think that we should go back to our old ways of Districts then regionals then state? I personally dont think that we should because some kids have trouble just placing in the top 4 in thier region let alone winning a match at state. a 32 man bracket allows for more competition and gets some wins under the belts of the not as good wrestlers so that they have something to be proud of... getting a win at state that is. Also if we were on a 16 man bracket it would greatly take away the significance of placing in the top 8 because all youwould have to do is get just a single win, then KHSAA might just give out medals to the top 4 which 95% of wrestlers never see.

[Charger Coach 14]

Since I wrestled in Indiana, I am kind of partial to their tournament set-up (Sectionals, Regionals, Semi-State, State).  The top 4 go on from Sectionals, then the top 3 from Regionals, top 4 from Semi-State, which makes for a 16-man bracket at state.  I think this still gives "lesser talented" kids something to be proud if they can get to Regionals, but it still makes it to where none of the weaker wrestlers make it to state.  A 32-man bracket doesn't necessarily make for more competition, just more wrestlers.  The state of Kentucky does an excellent job of putting on the state meet, but in Indiana, it is a little bit quicker and the finals are phenominal under the lights at Conseco Fieldhouse (it seats 18K).  You have to be at your best for 3 straight weekends to make state in Indiana which pretty much ensures that you deserve to be there.  I would love to see Kentucky go to a format similar to this but for now, since KY is not quite as established in wrestling (IN has over 310 high schools that wrestle), I think the current format suites just fine.  As for placing, Kentucky can still do the top 8 places.  Yes in IN you can place in the top 8 and only have to win 1 match at state, but a top 8 placing in IN says that you are in the best 2.5% of your weight class.  A top 8 placing in KY says that you are at least in the top 10%.  Bottom line, a 16 man bracket makes for better competition at state because the wrestlers are more closely matched in talent.  A 32 man bracket makes for long days and many uneventful matches in the 1st couple of days.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Well said Dragon master.

I also am in favor of returning to a 16 man bracket.  1st and foremost it will return the state tournament back to a two day tourney.

The Thursday round is a waste of time.  Many wrestlers in that round don't belong in the state tourney.  It use to be an accomplishment to make it to the state tourney.  Now almost everyone does. 

The state tourney is suppose to be the best of the best.  Not half the wrestlers in the state.

[penguinskillkids 0]

It's all about money fellas.

[colonel130 0]

Exactly penguinskillkids. It mainly has to do with money. But the sport will only grow with this 32 man bracket. We'll have like 70 - 80 teams next year, the sport IS growing.

[BiggieD275 1]

I also don't like the fact there there are Byes in the State Tournament.  I had one my senior year because there were only three kids in one region

[grappler-of-old 44]

Exactly penguinskillkids. It mainly has to do with money. But the sport will only grow with this 32 man bracket. We'll have like 70 - 80 teams next year, the sport IS growing.

I'm not exactly sure that the 32 man bracket has caused the increase in teams. I think it is that the state now has more qualified coaches comming to the state to start teams.  There are not many teams any more that have coaches that did not wrestle.  In the past we had several coaches that had never stepped on the mat.  Now most of the coaches have actually spent some time wrestling in collage. 

But I do hope that we get big enough to where we will need to return to District, Region, and State.

[pin2win 58]

do yall think the location of the state tournament will ever change

[archibaldhumperdink 0]

Why not in the states largest city Louisville.  I think that the turn out would be huge and this would put wrestling in the spotlight for the area. Jefferson county is one of the areas needing to notice and appreciate the sport.  We have lots of schools and talent but most kids in the area are unaware of or never see the high level of competition.  This would help the sport grow in one of the areas that are achieving below their potential.

[Danger 0]

I think we should go back to the 16 man bracket.

[colonel130 0]

Personally, I'm tired of it being in Frankfort. We need middle grounds. Maybe hold it at WKU one year, Frankfort one year, EKU another, so on so forth. That way there is no biased area also I know that the Franklin County team gets to runs cocessions when state goes on, that must be a field day for them. If we ran it a different place every year it would attract more and more people every year from ALL over the state. Also with the concessions every time its at a certain area like say Elizabethtown North Hardin could run the concessions then the next year it was in Elizabethtown LaRue could run it. If it was at WKU, more of the region 1 teams could run it. When it was at so say Cumberland Wayne, Whitley, and all of those teams could run it. It could be split up into 5 places Northern, Southern, Eastern, Central, and Western Ky.

[eville dad 17]

It would be fun to go to different areas but I cant think of any facility as well suited to the size crowd as the Frankfort Conv Center.

The three days is a grind for all those staying in hotels but that is probably 80% of the participants. The crowd is mostly parents and family of wrestlers so Im not sure how much more attendance they would get if held in Louisville, Lexington or N KY, larger metro areas.

I like the fact that it is in the State Capital, lots of kids have never been to Frankfort so it makes for an educational experience as well!

The size bracket just means three days vs 2 days and I think the kids like getting out of school.

Sure making it to state meant more when it was only 16 kids making it to state. But I'm not sure it was any tougher when you compare the 16 man state bracket of then to the round of 16 at state now.

I say leave it as it is and make it better by enhancing the event! Clinics, better lighting, better music, video on screen with live action etccc lots of things that can be done to make a good show better!

[Danger 0]

It would be fun to go to different areas but I cant think of any facility as well suited to the size crowd as the Frankfort Conv Center.

The three days is a grind for all those staying in hotels but that is probably 80% of the participants. The crowd is mostly parents and family of wrestlers so Im not sure how much more attendance they would get if held in Louisville, Lexington or N KY, larger metro areas.

I like the fact that it is in the State Capital, lots of kids have never been to Frankfort so it makes for an educational experience as well!

The size bracket just means three days vs 2 days and I think the kids like getting out of school.

Sure making it to state meant more when it was only 16 kids making it to state. But I'm not sure it was any tougher when you compare the 16 man state bracket of then to the round of 16 at state now.

I say leave it as it is and make it better by enhancing the event! Clinics, better lighting, better music, video on screen with live action etccc lots of things that can be done to make a good show better!

A giant live action screen would be amazing. I would love that.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Why not in the states largest city Louisville.  I think that the turn out would be huge and this would put wrestling in the spotlight for the area. Jefferson county is one of the areas needing to notice and appreciate the sport.  We have lots of schools and talent but most kids in the area are unaware of or never see the high level of competition.  This would help the sport grow in one of the areas that are achieving below their potential.

The state tournament was held in Louisville for almost 30 years.  The early years it traveled from one school to another.  (I think Seneca held it a few years)  It was then held at Atherton High School for all or most of the 80's until it was finally moved to Frankfort.  When it was held at Atherton all those years Atherton did not have a team many of those years.

Reducing it back to a 16 man bracket will help on school costs.  Have you ever had to ask your AD for money for a hotel room for 3 or 4 nights?  Imagine if you had almost your full team going and needing 4 rooms for coaches and wrestlers. If we can reduce this to 2 or 3 nights that will reduce the cost maybe 25%.

[Danger 0]

The state tournament was held in Louisville for almost 30 years.  The early years it traveled from one school to another.  (I think Seneca held it a few years)  It was then held at Atherton High School for all or most of the 80's until it was finally moved to Frankfort.  When it was held at Atherton all those years Atherton did not have a team many of those years.

Reducing it back to a 16 man bracket will help on school costs.  Have you ever had to ask your AD for money for a hotel room for 3 or 4 nights?  Imagine if you had almost your full team going and needing 4 rooms for coaches and wrestlers. If we can reduce this to 2 or 3 nights that will reduce the cost maybe 25%.

lol. Yea, right. More like 7 or 8 rooms.

[Southern112 0]

I like the 16-man bracket deal. Its way too easy to get to state. Also there should never be an empty spot in a weight class going into state.. Its like giving a terrible wrestler a goldenticket to get their tail whooped..

[Guest wrestler92]

One bad thing about having district, regional, state is some kids would still be making it to state that shouldn't be there, but then in other regions some kids would be knocked out by better kids and not be able to make it to state.  Say you have four top ranked kids in the same weight class in state in the same region, they are going to be fighting it out while other regions would have weaker kids making it where the #1 kid isn't as good as the #4 in the first region.  Back when we had the three sections, by far the toughest district/region combination was the east jefferson/northern kentucky combo.  There were many times, myself include, someone would not make state because they were #5 but then would watch 5-6 kids at state that they have beaten through the year.  It was tough every year in that combination while other districts/regions would have cake walks into state.  Under the old system I never made it, but the new system I would have made it 3 years and probably placed senior year but could not get by the top four guys in my region....tough.

Atherton held the state tournament in the 80's and early '90's....they did have a team just never had anyone good enough to make it there.  They also got a free day out of school then and we had less people watching than now, but less competitors too. 

It is about money and they make more now than old.  Plus the frankfort center gives us the facility for a great price, I believe it is free rent....There has been talk of other places having it but they can't match the same setup with number of people that can be held in it as well as enough hotel rooms within a real close distance to handle the people.

[grappler-of-old 44]

    I also grew up during those tough times of the Northern Ky/East Jeff. region.  I'll tell you this when you did make it through to the state tourney from that region you knew you were able to place and place high at the state tourney.  Those kids that did make it were usually placers in their wt. class. 

    I personally am happy that I was part of that tough region and worked my tail off to make it 3 times. I was greatly disappointed my freshman year when I did not make it and saw many wrestlers that I had defeated in other regions at the state tourney.  It made my drive more determined to make it the next year. 

    I also enjoyed seeing the #4 from most regions giving the #1 a run for their money in the 1st round.  All the rounds were exciting back then.

    What is it going to take to return to the 16 man tourney and District/region.  MORE AND MORE AND MORE TEAMS.  When todays districts get so large that there are 11-15 wrestlers competing in every wt. class we will need to return to this structure.  This would mean about 110 schools with teams in KY.

    I hope to see that day, and hope that I am somehow still involved with the sport.

[Just Wrestle 0]

I think it should go back to a 16 man bracket also.  Making it to state does need to mean more and everyone is right the first day of state in a 32 man bracket is a horrible waste of time for the most time.

[KYgrappler 4]

"I also enjoyed seeing the #4 from most regions giving the #1 a run for their money in the 1st round.  All the rounds were exciting back then."

YES. And almost ever yr a one seed went down on Friday morning.  Bring back the true state tourney...16 men per bracket.  A state qualifier used to be a big deal, especially in the good regions like NKY/Jeff and the bluegrass region.

[Guest wrestler92]

Personally I think it would take more than 110 schools for t hat to happen.  Because even if you added 22 more schools spread out over 8 regions that's less than 3 more per region.  And you know most of those schools wouldn't have full rosters.  I would say more like 128 schools.  there are some regions that have 12 and 13 schools in them now but not full teams.  I hope it does happen but I don't believe it will, it's just not popular enough of a sport in Kentucky and not enough population. 

[Just Wrestle 0]

Have 4 Regions like we use to?

[Lowsingle 9]

I definately think that we should go back to a 16 man bracket at the state tournament.  8 districts with top four placers going to regionals, 4 regions with top four placers going to state.  I graduated in 2001 which was the last year we had districts.  Since then I have seen teams that have qualified there whole team to go to state which was unheard of in my day.  It used to mean something to be a state qualifier and now it is just expected of everyone.  I wrestled in the old region 4 which was regions 7 & 8 combined.  That was a tough region with teams like Woodford Co, Wayne Co, Sheldon Clark, Paul Dunbar, and Henry Clay.  I know that year out of the top four wrestlers in each weight class we produced

1- 103 Doug Upchurch State Champ (Billy Clark ranked first all year and couldn't compete due to illness)

2- 112 (both finalist) Tyler Baldwin State Champ defeated Nick Chaffin

1- 119 Luke Metzker 3rd

1- 125 Nathan Moore 3rd

1- 130 Kyle Leugers 3rd

2- 145 Derrick Mollette State Champ, Kevin Rodriguez 3rd

1- 152 Buddy Dodd 4th

1- 160 Josh Wilkinson 3rd

1- 171 Eric Slugantz State Champ

1- 189 Josh Muncy State Champ

3- 215 John Dials State Champ, T.J Guffey 3rd, Jarvis Livingston 4th

4 Top Ten Teams

Woodford Co. 3rd

Wayne Co. 5th

Sheldon Clark 6th

Henry Clay 10th

[Who-Want-It! 0]

i like this setup i think that we should go back to 16 man brackets instead of draggin state out three days . Plus it would mean more to make it to state if you  went through districts then regionals, then state  just my 2 cents.

[Guest wrestler92]

What about the two years in the 80's where they had district, regionals, semistate and state?  I believe they only placed the top four in each class those years....that's like many other states around us, but we don't have enough schools.  Obviously it didn't last.