youth state results

[raidercoach 51]

I'm not the coach. I love the sport.my son wrestles for them.I Never had the opportunity to wrestle in Kentucky when I was in school. So I'm no expert on how this all works. I know we brought every kid that wanted to wrestle. Which happen to be 14 we won 2nd and the team that won 1st had 28. That's twice the chances to score. Thats why I did the math. I probably should have chosen another way to word it. My bad. The 2 kids you said rarely come to practice. Was not apart of any practice or any team function for the last 3 months. I didn't know they still wanted to wrestle until last Friday. The team that won 1st did an amazing job also had a high % of placers. I'm really not trying to put any

 

No problem.  Good luck to you and your team.

[Bluesdad 73]

Martin County (Sheldon Clark) has a great youth program with great kids and awesome coaches. Blue is at Johnson County (has been the last 4 years) which also has a great program and a coach second to no one and he loves it. But to be truthful without Martin County and Coach Stafford Blue would not be wrestling. Thanks for twisting my arm coach. I think these coaches have MC on the right tack with this group of kids. 

 

Not sure were Johnson County finished team wise Blue and I couldnt make it van wouldnt get out of the driveway lol. JC also had a kid (Blue) that couldnt participate in youth state due to placing top 4 at middle school state. 

[westKYwrestling 2]

Our coach goes out of his way to recruit kids. He goes to all the local schools passing out flyers. A first year wrestler(that didn't place) rode with his family to tournament.because his parents couldn't take him. The two wrestles in question placed at the state tournament last year. He was telling me the night before state that they would probably still place. Despite not doing any wrestling activity in 3 months. My son didn't place last year and he never hinted at him not needing to go. If it wasn't for him my son would not have the chance to wrestle. Yes he is competitive but not to the level of denying a child the experience of wrestling in state.

[raidercoach 51]

Our coach goes out of his way to recruit kids. He goes to all the local schools passing out flyers. A first year wrestler(that didn't place) rode with his family to tournament.because his parents couldn't take him. The two wrestles in question placed at the state tournament last year. He was telling me the night before state that they would probably still place. Despite not doing any wrestling activity in 3 months. My son didn't place last year and he never hinted at him not needing to go. If it wasn't for him my son would not have the chance to wrestle. Yes he is competitive but not to the level of denying a child the experience of wrestling in state.

 

I don't know all the circumstances around those kids and I don't really care.  However, I don't think there should be any situation where willing kids shouldn't be able to participate at youth state.  I don't like the rule preventing youth aged middle school placers from participating.  When will a wrestler ever be more evenly matched up against other wrestlers by age and weight than at the youth state?  In middle school and high school there is a much greater chance of kids competing against each other who have a 3-4 year age difference and possibly much smaller due to weight cutting.  At youth, these kids are all practically the exact age and weight.  I just think it takes away a little of the luster when you keep some of our best kids out and I can't see any benefit in doing it, especially with 16 man brackets.   

[tja 150]

I think the fact that this discussion can even take place shows improvement in the state we are talking about a decent youth program all the way in Mayfield Kentucky

[REscalera 189]

Raider coach-----I believe the rule that keeps youth aged kids that place top 4 at middle school state out of the youth state tournament is one of the best rules we have to help keep youth state competitive. I have no doubt your 2 state placers would have won youth state in their division. They should though, hence the top 4 placement at middle school state. Letting them wrestle youth state would be for no reason other than to say yippie my boys a state champ. You say there's no benefit. I say it only benefits them to let them wrestle. I can assure you their respective brackets were not lacking competition this past Sunday. Not one kid in their bracket went home unfulfilled because they didn't get pounded by a middle school state placer that is the same age and weight as them. I believe that's where we as parents and coaches should help them keep things in perspective and understand that the top 4 finish at middle school state is a much bigger accomplishment for a youth aged wrestler than a youth state championship.

[westKYwrestling 2]

Just a thought. Say the smallest team in the division has 14 kids what if all the teams with more kids in that division only used the points scored by their highest 14 placers. With a minimum number of kids in the smallest division. When you have 2 teams in the same division with one having twice the chance to score isn't exactly fair. I don't know it's just a thought

[gameface 253]

Just a thought. Say the smallest team in the division has 14 kids what if all the teams with more kids in that division only used the points scored by their highest 14 placers. With a minimum number of kids in the smallest division. When you have 2 teams in the same division with one having twice the chance to score isn't exactly fair. I don't know it's just a

We need to start a Yourh State Dual Championship. Just like Middle school, the more quality you bring/qualify the better your chances of winning!

[raidercoach 51]

Raider coach-----I believe the rule that keeps youth aged kids that place top 4 at middle school state out of the youth state tournament is one of the best rules we have to help keep youth state competitive. I have no doubt your 2 state placers would have won youth state in their division. They should though, hence the top 4 placement at middle school state. Letting them wrestle youth state would be for no reason other than to say yippie my boys a state champ. You say there's no benefit. I say it only benefits them to let them wrestle. I can assure you their respective brackets were not lacking competition this past Sunday. Not one kid in their bracket went home unfulfilled because they didn't get pounded by a middle school state placer that is the same age and weight as them. I believe that's where we as parents and coaches should help them keep things in perspective and understand that the top 4 finish at middle school state is a much bigger accomplishment for a youth aged wrestler than a youth state championship.

 

Actually, I know that had all the middle school placers been able to wrestle, one of our placers probably would not have won the youth tournament considering the kid that won his weight at middle school was also youth aged!  I don't disagree with the other points you made except I belive there is benefit of showcasing these kids at the state tournament.  Wrestling is a sport of imitation.  Kids who want to get better watch and imitate those that are successful.  I vividly remember as a youth aged wrestler watching everything that the best wrestlers did at every tournament I went to....what they wore, how they warmed up, what moves they hit, how they reacted when they won or lost.  Kids still do this today.  When we don't allow our best to showcase their stuff at state, I believe we miss out on that.  I'm not saying it's a huge loss since we are only talking about a few kids. 

 

However, back to my original point, how is it in any way unfair to allow these kids to compete against other kids who are practically the exact same age and weight?  If we do it at youth, why don't we do it at middle school?  If a middle school kid is ranked or even varsity on his high school team, why don't we prevent them from wrestling in middle school?  After all, there realistically could be a high school ranked 8th grader who is cutting weight wrestling against 5th and 6th graders in middle school who are wrestling their natural weight and are 3-4 years younger.  There is a much greater chance of there being a larger gap in experience, size, and age at the middle and high school levels, but we don't keep those kids from wrestling.  Just to be clear, I'm not in favor of any of that.  I just don't think it makes sense and its rather hypocritical to do this at youth.   

[Ranger123 43]

Just a thought. Say the smallest team in the division has 14 kids what if all the teams with more kids in that division only used the points scored by their highest 14 placers. With a minimum number of kids in the smallest division. When you have 2 teams in the same division with one having twice the chance to score isn't exactly fair. I don't know it's just a thought

That would require each coach to tell us their preferred point scorers. That could work but honestly we are lucky to get simple rosters in a timely manner so we can build brackets.

That also leads to the situation where every kid doesn't score hence they don't all matter. If ryle and river city only have X point scorers what incentive do they have to push more and more kids into the event.

How would that work for Division 3? Only 1 scorer?

And finally, Braves (Grant Co) had 10 finalists and their top 14 kids scored 175 pts so that doesn't necessarily change any finish order.

[JCB0577 17]

I want to say congrats to a Shamrock wrestler, Jack Cummings.  Kid was a huge gamer all day, and had my son worried during the tourney.  I just want jack to know that he is a hell of a wrestler and the finals match could of gone either way.  I also want Jack to know that he brings the best out of my son (Jackson Belk) when they wrestle.  His parents are a class act, and I just want to give the kid props, because he handled himself like a champion when he lost in the last 6 seconds.  Yes he was upset, but he got up and acted like a young man when shaking hands.  Myself and my son have huge respect for Jack Cummings and his family.  Thank you all for a great tournament. 

[Bluesdad 73]

Raider coach-----I believe the rule that keeps youth aged kids that place top 4 at middle school state out of the youth state tournament is one of the best rules we have to help keep youth state competitive. I have no doubt your 2 state placers would have won youth state in their division. They should though, hence the top 4 placement at middle school state. Letting them wrestle youth state would be for no reason other than to say yippie my boys a state champ. You say there's no benefit. I say it only benefits them to let them wrestle. I can assure you their respective brackets were not lacking competition this past Sunday. Not one kid in their bracket went home unfulfilled because they didn't get pounded by a middle school state placer that is the same age and weight as them. I believe that's where we as parents and coaches should help them keep things in perspective and understand that the top 4 finish at middle school state is a much bigger accomplishment for a youth aged wrestler than a youth state championship.

I agree with this 100%. Especially the last sentence.

I want to say congrats to a Shamrock wrestler, Jack Cummings.  Kid was a huge gamer all day, and had my son worried during the tourney.  I just want jack to know that he is a hell of a wrestler and the finals match could of gone either way.  I also want Jack to know that he brings the best out of my son (Jackson Belk) when they wrestle.  His parents are a class act, and I just want to give the kid props, because he handled himself like a champion when he lost in the last 6 seconds.  Yes he was upset, but he got up and acted like a young man when shaking hands.  Myself and my son have huge respect for Jack Cummings and his family.  Thank you all for a great tournament. 

Jack and his father are two people my son and I seek out at each tournament to speak with. Great people and a joy to be around. Jack has a very bright future.

[marriedtothemat 13]

I know that the debate about middle school placers wrestling at youth state will continue to a hot topic. I agree with the current rule that does not allow those who place top four in middle school to compete at youth state.

There are now several youth age wrestlers who have won 2 middle school state titles. We all know that if these kids compete at youth state, they will win their brackets. Who does this benefit?? Not the multiple time middle school state champs. These boys already have bigger and better titles. Not the youth age kids who could have placed or won titles at youth state if these middle school champs are not able to compete. So why not give these other youth age wrestlers a chance to stand on the podium and get their recognition?

In my opinion, you can't compare youth wrestling middle school and middle school wrestling high school. How many KY middle schoolers have won a HS state title?? Only a few. How many have done so at 7th grade or below? Because youth allows some kids to wrestle who are 7th graders, there are a huge number of middle state champs who are eligible to wrestle youth state. Those same numbers do not carry over from high school to middle school.

[westKYwrestling 2]

The points could be added up after the tournament is done. That way all kids have a chance to earn points for their team. Their would have to be a minimum for division 3. 1 kid could not be a team. And yes grant county did a great job and earned 1st place. Its just an idea for the smaller teams in each division to have a equal opportunity. Especially with the difference from smallest to largest team in each division

[gameface 253]

The idea is to grow your programs and wrestling in Kenticky. We made 3 divisions for the sole purpose to give different size clubs the chance to win. If we want to limit it to specific scorers then we need to establish a Kentucky State Youth Dual Championships. Top 3 or 4 get awards and top 2 teams get medals for wrestlers

[raidercoach 51]

I know that the debate about middle school placers wrestling at youth state will continue to a hot topic. I agree with the current rule that does not allow those who place top four in middle school to compete at youth state.

There are now several youth age wrestlers who have won 2 middle school state titles. We all know that if these kids compete at youth state, they will win their brackets. Who does this benefit?? Not the multiple time middle school state champs. These boys already have bigger and better titles. Not the youth age kids who could have placed or won titles at youth state if these middle school champs are not able to compete. So why not give these other youth age wrestlers a chance to stand on the podium and get their recognition?

In my opinion, you can't compare youth wrestling middle school and middle school wrestling high school. How many KY middle schoolers have won a HS state title?? Only a few. How many have done so at 7th grade or below? Because youth allows some kids to wrestle who are 7th graders, there are a huge number of middle state champs who are eligible to wrestle youth state. Those same numbers do not carry over from high school to middle school.

 

I don't see how you can't compare the two.  First, there aren't a "huge number of middle school state champs eligible to wreste youth state".  There are only a few a year and almost always they are kids at the lightest weights where those weights are mostly filled with youth aged kids anyway.  Also, we aren't talking about just champs, but top 4.  There have been plenty of top 4 placers over the years at high school who were 8th graders and again, it's mostly at the lightest weight classes where there are many more middle school wrestlers participating at those weights.  There are many similarities between these two situations. 

 

The point that you aren't reconginzing is how close we match up the youth aged kids in age and weight.  Again, this is a close as these kids will ever be matched up in age and weight in their entire careers, yet we are arbitrarily saying these select few can't compete for what...safety or because we want other kids to have a chance to stand on the podium?  Can't the same be said about stud middle schoolers who do well at high school?  It's the exact same thing.  The only difference is, we have the high school state after the middle school state so we don't know who those placers are at the time the middle school championship is wrestled.

 

I really don't have a dog in this fight.  I just hate when kids who want to compete have that taken away from them because of some silly rule that isn't based on common sense.  We've had a few kids where this has happened to and all of them I have spoken with would have preferred to have been able to wrestle the youth state.  Of course they are proud of placing at middle school and anyone can recognize thats a greater accomplishment, but why shouldn't the kid be able to do both if he earned it?

[westKYwrestling 2]

I don't know if we would have enough kids for every weight class. This is my sons 2nd year and he's never done a dual. I have a good idea what it is. But not 100% sure how it works

[marriedtothemat 13]

I don't see how you can't compare the two. First, there aren't a "huge number of middle school state champs eligible to wreste youth state". There are only a few a year and almost always they are kids at the lightest weights where those weights are mostly filled with youth aged kids anyway. Also, we aren't talking about just champs, but top 4. There have been plenty of top 4 placers over the years at high school who were 8th graders and again, it's mostly at the lightest weight classes where there are many more middle school wrestlers participating at those weights. There are many similarities between these two situations.

The point that you aren't reconginzing is how close we match up the youth aged kids in age and weight. Again, this is a close as these kids will ever be matched up in age and weight in their entire careers, yet we are arbitrarily saying these select few can't compete for what...safety or because we want other kids to have a chance to stand on the podium? Can't the same be said about stud middle schoolers who do well at high school? It's the exact same thing. The only difference is, we have the high school state after the middle school state so we don't know who those placers are at the time the middle school championship is wrestled.

I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just hate when kids who want to compete have that taken away from them because of some silly rule that isn't based on common sense. We've had a few kids where this has happened to and all of them I have spoken with would have preferred to have been able to wrestle the youth state. Of course they are proud of placing at middle school and anyone can recognize thats a greater accomplishment, but why shouldn't the kid be able to do both if he earned it?

I don't have the time nor desire to research all the top 4 placers however, 5 of the 15 middle school state champs were eligible for youth state. That is 1/3. How many of last years high school state champs were middle schoolers last year? I believe only Carr was a middle schooler. I venture to say that if we looked at top 4 placers at high school and middle school state we would find a similar percentage

[Ranger123 43]

The major difference when comparing youth/MS and MS/HS is the goals of the programs. Youth we want numbers and growth. So giving those less experienced kids a better opportunity to have their moment in the spotlight with Darren. While MS we are more focused on competition.

[raidercoach 51]

I don't have the time nor desire to research all the top 4 placers however, 5 of the 15 middle school state champs were eligible for youth state. That is 1/3. How many of last years high school state champs were middle schoolers last year? I believe only Carr was a middle schooler. I venture to say that if we looked at top 4 placers at high school and middle school state we would find a similar percentage

 

If you really want to make a fair comparison, look at the percentage of kids participating who were actually youth aged in those weights compared to the weights in high school.  I'm totally guessing, but I would expect the lightest 5 weights in middle school have a very high percentage of youth aged kids participating in middle school, at least much higher than the lightest 5 weights in high school.  Just looking at Ranger's rankings, there are way more kids that are youth aged in those 5 lightest weight classes compared to the amount of middle school kids ranked in high school.  How many middle school kids actually weigh 70lbs or less?  I'm an average sized adult and was average sized in 8th grade and I weighed over 120lbs.  Lets face it, those weight classes are filled with youth aged kids, hence you are going to have a high percentage of youth aged champions coming from those weights.  All the more reason to let them wrestle at youth state!   

[MLee 68]

I don't have the time nor desire to research all the top 4 placers however, 5 of the 15 middle school state champs were eligible for youth state. That is 1/3. How many of last years high school state champs were middle schoolers last year? I believe only Carr was a middle schooler. I venture to say that if we looked at top 4 placers at high school and middle school state we would find a similar percentage

I voted against the MS/Youth rule.  I was certainly in the minority.  Here are my key reasons why I dislike the rule:

 

1. We might be the only state that has a 70 and 75 # weight class at MS and for good reason..these are not MS weight classes.  I'd like to see how many kids have placed in these 2 weight classes that were NOT youth wrestlers.  If you removed these 2 classes, the rule makes more sense to me. 
2. I have a fundamental problem restricting any kid from participating in a tournament when they are of age.  Why shouldn't they have an opportunity to win another medal and enjoy the spotlight?  Because they worked hard and are good?  Shouldn't this decision be left with the kid, his/parents, and their coach? 
3. There is an assumption the MS placers wouldn't get challenged at the youth tournament.  That is just not the case.  Our 70#er took 5th at MS State.  He went into OT in the semi's and lost in the finals at youth.  It was a very challenging tournament for him.  The difference between him and the MS state champ is just a few points. 

[raidercoach 51]

The major difference when comparing youth/MS and MS/HS is the goals of the programs. Youth we want numbers and growth. So giving those less experienced kids a better opportunity to have their moment in the spotlight with Darren. While MS we are more focused on competition.

 

Valid point...but I don't see how allowing these kids in the tournament will affect growth.  If we are truly worried that these kids are so dominant that they will scare kids off (I don't belive that) then we should create an elite division and a starter division.  We can have the starter division go in the morning and run 8 man brackets and place top 4 giving many younger and less experienced kids the chance to medal.  In the afternoon, we can run the elite division and run 16 man brackets and allow everyone in, including middle school placers to offer a more competitive tournament for the more experienced kids. 

[MLee 68]

Valid point...but I don't see how allowing these kids in the tournment will affect growth.  If we are truly worried that these kids are so dominant that they will scare kids off (I don't belive that) then we should create an elite division and a starter division.  We can have the starter division go in the morning and run 8 man brackets and place top 4 giving many younger and less experienced kids the chance to medal.  In the afternoon, we can run the elite division and run 16 man brackets and allow everyone in, including middle school placers to offer a more competitive tournament for the more experienced kids. 

Ha...raidercoach if you would ever go to a meeting, you would know this proposed and voted down. 

[raidercoach 51]

Ha...raidercoach if you would ever go to a meeting, you would know this proposed and voted down. 

 

As you know, no boys in my family so I spend my time at dance and music recitals and soccer games.  Unfortunately, half the time when I'm there I'm on my phone looking at this site or Flowrestling.

[westKYwrestling 2]

Was their more or less kids at the tournament this year?