middle school state seeding meeting

[IWIN 49]

No doubt that Coach Matney is an extraordinary coach. He is one of my favorite of all time. He did a heck of a job at Sheldon Clark and is definitely putting Johnson Central on the map. As a matter of fact, I would be willing to bet if he were at a more centrally located school, he would have already doubled his success. But that is really neither here nor there. The bottom line is JC has the option to travel or not. Just don't complain if lil Johnny isn't seeded as high as you'd like when there is no common opponents. One solution would be to start hosting a big home tournament that gains a reputation that other teams would want to make the trip to compete in. No since in making that trip if it isn't worth it.

[rjs4470 103]

I'd love to hit one of those tournaments and hopefully we can in the future. My only argument is this. Coach Matney as had a great deal of success. His way of coaching and the tournaments he travels to has been proven to get his wrestlers were they need to be. So I don't think he will change it because of middle school.

Johnson Central did see many of the NKY teams at Harrison County right after Christmas.  The only big player missing from NKY that event was Walton.  There were close to 30 state Qualifiers from NKY there, so there should have been a few head to head matchups (or at least "A" beat "B" who beat "C" situations).  And that's just from one average sized tourney.  For the most part I would think there is enough info out there to seed.

[Bluesdad 73]

Yeah you guys tried to do Gamble wrong in the seeding last night. Tried to seed him a 3 when he's the returning runner up in that weight class.

[Ranger123 43]

Yeah we understand, whatever makes NKy crew happy.

Really? Don't go there. Is NKy prominent in KY wrestling? Absolutely. But no different than Union Co running western ky wrestling. Coaches have built strong programs from top to bottom and continue to put in the time and effort for success at all levels. When you have numbers and success and coaches are active and participate regularly in the administrative process they have a strong voice. I've heard the joking about a NKy mafia. Funny funny. The fact is we are highly competitive and try to beat the snot out of each other on the mat. But in 2 months I guarantee I will be on a mat on Brown Rd in Verona, Ky training kids from all around NKy. We are in it to help any and all kids that are willing to work no matter what school they go to.

The bottom line is this. Does NKy have a major voice in MS wrestling right now? Absolutely. Much of the board is from this area. As soon as anyone else is ready to step up and put in the hundreds of hrs it takes to keep this organization moving in the right direction please send me an email. We welcome the opportunity for someone to take our "job" and allow us to spend more time with our paying jobs, with our teams, our kids, and our family.

[Ranger123 43]

Yeah you guys tried to do Gamble wrong in the seeding last night. Tried to seed him a 3 when he's the returning runner up in that weight class.

Were you on the call? If so, were you listening during the 140 discussion? Gamble was unanimously given the benefit of the doubt and awarded the #1 seed solely based on being the returning runner up.

[Ranger123 43]

Is your comment about NKy related to Blue's seeding? It was clear cut common opponent. 55 pound Spencer Moore beat Blue. Trevor Frietsch beat Spencer Moore. No other criteria to discuss. Clear cut. No NKy bias. No mafia impact. Just wrestling.

[rjs4470 103]

Is your comment about NKy related to Blue's seeding? It was clear cut common opponent. 55 pound Spencer Moore beat Blue. Trevor Frietsch beat Spencer Moore. No other criteria to discuss. Clear cut. No NKy bias. No mafia impact. Just wrestling.

and the #4 from region 3 (who went 1-4 against Frietsch) also beat Blue in a not so close match.

[Jbrown1405 11]

some teams can't get a invite to some of these tourneys because they do not have enough kids

Union County hosted Battle of the Brave and invited everyone. We took teams with extras, teams with 3 wrestlers, and even unattached wrestlers. We got great hotel rates and even put a couple teams up. We had an average of 24 wrestlers per bracket and was out by 530. Last year I was at a smaller school and still got my two kids into Bearcat Brawl and WCI most of the time you just have to ask. Just one or two tough in state tournaments helps get kids ranked appropriately.

[Ranger123 43]

While I agree we should all support and seek out these competitive tournaments I don't think it should be required. But as has been mentioned you can't expect to get seeding consideration without some good in state wins.

We have stepped up throughout the state with some great MS events that attract great national level talent. Hopefully we can continue that progress and get the same momentum at the youth level.

[grapplehed 8]

Seeding is not perfect nor will it ever be. Look at how they seed some of the national level tourneys from MS to HS.  Or even Track for that matter.  Cream will always rise to the top, for someone to say it would be great for an underdog to make it to the finals, the underdog would in fact upset all of the top seeded wrestlers to the finals, not the other way around. 

 

At least the MS coaches are giving it a shot. The KHSAA will not even consider it, like always, its lopsided. But to take on the "seeding" is a major feat in itself.  The same people complaining about the seeds would be the same people complaining about the draw, if in fact they received the raw end of the deal. 

 

Best of luck to all MS wrestlers, great to see level of competition rise to the occasion and for the coaches, admin and wrestlers for making this such a problem.  When they introduce the 32 man bracket at the HS, some weight classes just had to weigh in to qualify for state, at the HS level.  What a joke that was.  You guys should be happy to have those problems to deal with, and attack them for the best of MS wrestling in the state.

[Keepyourheadup 10]

Really? Don't go there. Is NKy prominent in KY wrestling? Absolutely. But no different than Union Co running western ky wrestling. Coaches have built strong programs from top to bottom and continue to put in the time and effort for success at all levels. When you have numbers and success and coaches are active and participate regularly in the administrative process they have a strong voice. I've heard the joking about a NKy mafia. Funny funny. The fact is we are highly competitive and try to beat the snot out of each other on the mat. But in 2 months I guarantee I will be on a mat on Brown Rd in Verona, Ky training kids from all around NKy. We are in it to help any and all kids that are willing to work no matter what school they go to.

The bottom line is this. Does NKy have a major voice in MS wrestling right now? Absolutely. Much of the board is from this area. As soon as anyone else is ready to step up and put in the hundreds of hrs it takes to keep this organization moving in the right direction please send me an email. We welcome the opportunity for someone to take our "job" and allow us to spend more time with our paying jobs, with our teams, our kids, and our family.

well said!!!!!!!!

[CBender 17]

some teams can't get a invite to some of these tourneys because they do not have enough kids

Union County hosted Battle of the Brave and invited everyone. We took teams with extras, teams with 3 wrestlers, and even unattached wrestlers. We got great hotel rates and even put a couple teams up. We had an average of 24 wrestlers per bracket and was out by 530. Last year I was at a smaller school and still got my two kids into Bearcat Brawl and WCI most of the time you just have to ask. Just one or two tough in state tournaments helps get kids ranked appropriately.

I will agree and say that in the past two years, the tournaments at John Hardin, North Hardin, Bearcat Brawl, Union's "Brave" Tourney, WCI, Harrison, and a host of other tournaments I'm not referencing by name have let me bring as few as 1 wrestler to them.  I've never asked to enter more than 3-4 wrestlers in any tournament in the past 2 years, and I've almost always been accommodated.  The weekends that ARE tougher on the smaller clubs/teams are the weekends that only duals events are running.  But even then, I have usually managed to find overflow matches for my kid(s) by working with the folks hosting the duals.  Only on a very few weekends over the past two years have we been completely shut out and had no in-state venue for matches, or found that an event (almost always a duals/teams event) would simply not work with us.  "You just have to ask" has usually proven to be the case.  No matter the small size of your group, you're going to be able to get into 1-2 of these larger events, if you really want your kids to participate.  Plenty of coaches in this state are willing to do whatever it takes to help kids get matches in their event.

[grappler-of-old 44]

If you require a team to attend certain number of in state tourneys to get seeded.  That still solves nothing.  If a team does not met the requirements and they have studs that should be seeded.  When they are blind drawn into the touney they become bracket busters.  You may have them wrestling the next best in the early rounds, just as if there were no seeding.

 

To properly seed a touney the coaches must be in agreement that they are trying to get the best wrester the top seed and the 2nd best the 2nd seed and so on.  Most of the time it becomes politics.  After the first couple of seeds are given then the coaches look at weather they have a beter chance with the 1st or 2nd seed. and so on.  Or they look at how they can get more team points for thier team or take some away from another.  (I have played this game myself in the past)

[Bluesdad 73]

Is your comment about NKy related to Blue's seeding? It was clear cut common opponent. 55 pound Spencer Moore beat Blue. Trevor Frietsch beat Spencer Moore. No other criteria to discuss. Clear cut. No NKy bias. No mafia impact. Just wrestling.

Is your comment about NKy related to Blue's seeding? It was clear cut common opponent. 55 pound Spencer Moore beat Blue. Trevor Frietsch beat Spencer Moore. No other criteria to discuss. Clear cut. No NKy bias. No mafia impact. Just wrestling.

He didn't beat Blue the ref did. Moore didn't score a point his self against Blue. Not 1 single point did he create by him self. The only way he beat Blue was the ref called 3 crap tight waisting calls against him. So did your son get awarded the match? Sure. But did he beat Blue his self NO he didn't. Now Spencer is a great wrestler but he was handed the match that day. Also at the end Blue shouldve at the very least been awarded an escape and the match shouldve went to overtime. But the ref was terrible. You run into that it's part of the sport.

I really wished names of kids wouldn't have been brought into this. I didn't mention anyone's name because they are kids.

Were you on the call? If so, were you listening during the 140 discussion? Gamble was unanimously given the benefit of the doubt and awarded the #1 seed solely based on being the returning runner up.

Were you on the call? If so, were you listening during the 140 discussion? Gamble was unanimously given the benefit of the doubt and awarded the #1 seed solely based on being the returning runner up.

YES

Only after you guys tried to award him the 3seed then another coach had to step up and say he deserves the 1 because he was runner up last year.

[Bluesdad 73]

Really? Don't go there. Is NKy prominent in KY wrestling? Absolutely. But no different than Union Co running western ky wrestling. Coaches have built strong programs from top to bottom and continue to put in the time and effort for success at all levels. When you have numbers and success and coaches are active and participate regularly in the administrative process they have a strong voice. I've heard the joking about a NKy mafia. Funny funny. The fact is we are highly competitive and try to beat the snot out of each other on the mat. But in 2 months I guarantee I will be on a mat on Brown Rd in Verona, Ky training kids from all around NKy. We are in it to help any and all kids that are willing to work no matter what school they go to.

The bottom line is this. Does NKy have a major voice in MS wrestling right now? Absolutely. Much of the board is from this area. As soon as anyone else is ready to step up and put in the hundreds of hrs it takes to keep this organization moving in the right direction please send me an email. We welcome the opportunity for someone to take our "job" and allow us to spend more time with our paying jobs, with our teams, our kids, and our family.

Do you help kids? Sure and you need to be commended for that.

But when all these by laws and rules are put into place whatever is best suited for NKy is what is passed. Its a numbers game, and you guys have the numbers.

[Bluesdad 73]

and the #4 from region 3 (who went 1-4 against Frietsch) also beat Blue in a not so close match.

Well you are correct. Did I say Blue was going to win his weight class at middle school state? Did I even say he would win a match? No, but I think he will win a match.

Let's dissect your comment a bit. He did lose to Pye. It was 5-3 in the third then Blue got stuck. So yes Pye beat him that day.

Frietsch beat Moore 7-6. Moore beat Blue 3-2. But in the Blue Moore match Moore didn't score a single point his self. The ref awarded every point on crap tight wasting calls. Something Blue has not been called for all year or ever except by that ref. So it looks to be pretty close to me.

[Bluesdad 73]

Is your comment about NKy related to Blue's seeding? It was clear cut common opponent. 55 pound Spencer Moore beat Blue. Trevor Frietsch beat Spencer Moore. No other criteria to discuss. Clear cut. No NKy bias. No mafia impact. Just wrestling.

Is your comment about NKy related to Blue's seeding? It was clear cut common opponent. 55 pound Spencer Moore beat Blue. Trevor Frietsch beat Spencer Moore. No other criteria to discuss. Clear cut. No NKy bias. No mafia impact. Just wrestling.

No the comment wasn't about the seeding. After we were told that Frietsch beat Moore we got the seeding. At first we thought you were saying he got the 3 seed because he faced him at the Harrison Co tourney. Which we knew couldn't happen because Frietsch was at 80lbs that day. We didn't know they wrestled at districts. So we follow the seeding now.

[dutch 178]

Yeah we understand, whatever makes NKy crew happy.

Are you speaking for all of Johnson central when you made this silly post calling out all of nky? I am in northern ky and I find this comment childish. I have your read multiple post about nky being bias. From rangers response it sounds like you are mainly upset because your son did not receive the seed you thought he deserved. I thought it was pretty black an white when it came down to the head to head. I know as a farther you want to argue to get him the best possible seed in order to have success at the state tournament. I get it. Their must be a better way to go about this than calling out the entire nky area. I believe that their were over 20 coaches from around the entire state voting on this.

As far as seeding it will never be perfect. I believe their was a debate that involved my son mason. Sounds like there was good points made on why he should be the 1 and Brock the 2. It seems like it could have went either way. Personally I wouldn't be upset either way. When I was told about the debate my response "give him 2,3, or 4. I personally believe that Reguardless of what seed you are, you are going to have to wrestle. My point is that I have seen a lot of top seeds get knocked off early. I know from my sons trip to state last year. The cream will rise to the top. The last thing I would do is call out an entire area of the state because I wasn't happy with a decision.

I am northern ky and I have a facility at my house that is open to any wrestler that wants to come. I have had the privilege of having kids from all over the entire state showing up to train and get better. Doesn't matter what school and of course it is always free. My point is you label all of nky as bias. Maybe you should ask around and you might find that there are some people in nky that go out of their way to help any kid that wants to get better.

I wish your son and the rest of the kids that made it to state the best of luck.

[Ranger123 43]

Rules are rules and Points are points. Will never forget a few years back in Frankfort when John Wolseifer (one of my favorites ever in KY wrestling) nearly kept himself from a hs state championship with the exact same call by not lining up properly. That official you are calling out was one of the best you will see at the ms level. In fact he will be in Mt Sterling in a week and a half. And let me promise you this. I didn't say anything that day to get caution calls, but when the big matches are on the line I will do my part as a coach to make sure the officials are making that proper call.

And to finish my though... wins/losses are wins/losses no matter how they come or what state they are in.

[Ranger123 43]

But when all these by laws and rules are put into place whatever is best suited for NKy is what is passed. Its a numbers game, and you guys have the numbers.

What bylaws and rules are best suited for one part of the state? Coaches cards? Maybe increasing hwt to 240? Requiring wrestlers to have a physical?

[Bluesdad 73]

Are you speaking for all of Johnson central when you made this silly post calling out all of nky? I am in northern ky and I find this comment childish. I have your read multiple post about nky being bias. From rangers response it sounds like you are mainly upset because your son did not receive the seed you thought he deserved. I thought it was pretty black an white when it came down to the head to head. I know as a farther you want to argue to get him the best possible seed in order to have success at the state tournament. I get it. Their must be a better way to go about this than calling out the entire nky area. I believe that their were over 20 coaches from around the entire state voting on this.

As far as seeding it will never be perfect. I believe their was a debate that involved my son mason. Sounds like there was good points made on why he should be the 1 and Brock the 2. It seems like it could have went either way. Personally I wouldn't be upset either way. When I was told about the debate my response "give him 2,3, or 4. I personally believe that Reguardless of what seed you are, you are going to have to wrestle. My point is that I have seen a lot of top seeds get knocked off early. I know from my sons trip to state last year. The cream will rise to the top. The last thing I would do is call out an entire area of the state because I wasn't happy with a decision.

I am northern ky and I have a facility at my house that is open to any wrestler that wants to come. I have had the privilege of having kids from all over the entire state showing up to train and get better. Doesn't matter what school and of course it is always free. My point is you label all of nky as bias. Maybe you should ask around and you might find that there are some people in nky that go out of their way to help any kid that wants to get better.

I wish your son and the rest of the kids that made it to state the best of luck.

I didn't call anyone out. No I dont speak for all of Johnson Co. I'm one person with one opinion. You call it a silly comment amd it may very well be that. Let me say I'm sorry if I offended anyone with the comment. I see how it may have. But every time a vote of any sort goes down it seems to benefit the NKy teams. It seems Eastern Ky is a after thought when it comes to decisions concerning middle school wrestling. But that is just my opinion. So like I said in apologize for that comment.

No im not upset about seeding. At first we were told the 3 seed got that seed because he finished higher at a tourney that he and Blue both were at. But he wrestled 80lbs there and not 75lbs so we were a little confused. Then it was explained to us that there was a common opponent that took place during districts that we didn't know about at the time. So the seeds are correct.

As far as having to wrestling everyone at some point. Blue hasnever dodged anyone and will wrestle anyone. Now will he win them all No but he will win his fair share. I believe if your winning every weekend your not going to the right places.

Also it's great that people in NKy help kids that only grows the sport. But its same here in eastern Ky. We have kids that have to be picked up for practice and taken home afterwards. Some can't afford to buy shoes, head gear, etc. for wrestling. So we help with that. There are helping hands in all parts of the state and country which is great.

[Bluesdad 73]

Rules are rules and Points are points. Will never forget a few years back in Frankfort when John Wolseifer (one of my favorites ever in KY wrestling) nearly kept himself from a hs state championship with the exact same call by not lining up properly. That official you are calling out was one of the best you will see at the ms level. In fact he will be in Mt Sterling in a week and a half. And let me promise you this. I didn't say anything that day to get caution calls, but when the big matches are on the line I will do my part as a coach to make sure the officials are making that proper call.

And to finish my though... wins/losses are wins/losses no matter how they come or what state they are in.

I didnt say you said anything I thought you handled your self great on the mat. I didn't have a problem with anything you said or did that day.

The ref maybe a great ref but on that day in that match he blew that call period. You can say i called him out if you want but he did blow the call. We have it on film were you can look directly at the setup. Actually 2 views from to different cameras. Blue wasn't setup wrong at all. Coach Matney watched it and said they were nothing wrong with the way Blue was setup at all. Said the ref blew the call. But your right a win is a win and that day Spencer got the win regardless of how or who awarded the points.

Wins/loses are wins/ loses no matter how they come or what state they are in. Let's remember that next year in the seed meeting...lol.

[Bluesdad 73]

What bylaws and rules are best suited for one part of the state? Coaches cards? Maybe increasing hwt to 240? Requiring wrestlers to have a physical?

Next time you call a meeting let's have it in Eastern Ky. Then the time after that let's have it in western Ky. Then well have it in NKy. That way all coaches from all districts and regions can attend and have a hand in shaping the by laws and rules. The meetings are always held where and when coaches and concerned parents from other regions can't attend. We can't just up and drive 3 hours to a meeting with work and life activites.

I know some of you may not believe this but I'm not just trying to be a pain in the butt. I love this sport and want to make it the best for all wrestlers in this state. I think for this to happen the whole state needs to have more of a voice.

[REscalera 189]

So if I understand Bluesdad correctly, he's upset about his son's seed because his son was robbed of an escape point that would have sent his son's match to OT with a wrestler from Region 3 that didn't even qualify for state.  I must admit, when I first read this I was a bit puzzled as to why he might be feeling this way but when it came to my attention that his son also lost to the #4 seed from Region 3, I completely understand where he's coming from.  For his son to have been robbed of OT with a NKY wrestler that didn't make state then get pinned by a NKY kid that is a 4 seed in his region and finally for his son to be ranked lower than a NKY wrestler that won his region, there is obviously a NKY force working against him.  And we all know it isn't due to better more competitive wrestling up north.  For Pete's sake he takes his kid to WV, OH and TN so we all know that he's not afraid to travel for competitive wrestling.  Obviously, it's just due to the fact that we in KY do not provide that same level of competition so he must go out of state to escape the great force know as NKY.  Never mind that his son lost to a kid from TN 8-4 that a KY 70 lb wrestler beat by more than 10 points.  That KY wrestler isn't from NKY but he's been there plenty enough over the last year that I wouldn't doubt if the NKY force may have rubbed off on him.  Any hoot, all beware.  Per Bluesdad, Region 4 has the toughest wrestlers in the state and they never get the credit for it.  I'm with him, let's all just shut up and let their wrestling tell the story.  Good job Bluesdad.  Way to fight the fight.      

[Bluesdad 73]

So if I understand Bluesdad correctly, he's upset about his son's seed because his son was robbed of an escape point that would have sent his son's match to OT with a wrestler from Region 3 that didn't even qualify for state. I must admit, when I first read this I was a bit puzzled as to why he might be feeling this way but when it came to my attention that his son also lost to the #4 seed from Region 3, I completely understand where he's coming from. For his son to have been robbed of OT with a NKY wrestler that didn't make state then get pinned by a NKY kid that is a 4 seed in his region and finally for his son to be ranked lower than a NKY wrestler that won his region, there is obviously a NKY force working against him. And we all know it isn't due to better more competitive wrestling up north. For Pete's sake he takes his kid to WV, OH and TN so we all know that he's not afraid to travel for competitive wrestling. Obviously, it's just due to the fact that we in KY do not provide that same level of competition so he must go out of state to escape the great force know as NKY. Never mind that his son lost to a kid from TN 8-4 that a KY 70 lb wrestler beat by more than 10 points. That KY wrestler isn't from NKY but he's been there plenty enough over the last year that I wouldn't doubt if the NKY force may have rubbed off on him. Any hoot, all beware. Per Bluesdad, Region 4 has the toughest wrestlers in the state and they never get the credit for it. I'm with him, let's all just shut up and let their wrestling tell the story. Good job Bluesdad. Way to fight the fight.

What are you talking about I'm not saying anything about the seeding. The seeding is correct. The matches you mentioned were brought up so I explained what happened in them. If you wouldve read the posts you couldve understood this if you can.

Didn't say region 4 was the toughest, didn't even come close to saying that. But region 4 does have some solid wrestlers that are just as good as anyone in the state.

Didn't say NKy doesn't have good wrestling because they do.

Do we travel and wrestle anyone? Yes. Does he win all his matches no he doesn't but he does win his fair share and does quite well for his age. I'm willing to say he just as good as your son was when he was 10. So if you want to try and put my sons accomplishments down on the mat you might aswell put your sons down also. Let me ask did he win his region at 75lbs as a 10 year old? I'm guessing no. Since he's 11/12 and still at 70lbs. Your son is a great wrestler and so is my son and I will not sit by and let you make fun of all the hard work he has put into this sport to make his self better. You should be ashamed trying to belittle a Childs accomplishments on a message board.