Do the best really want to wrestle the best???

[TheVoice 2]

In the next coming weeks it will be interesting to see how many wrestlers actually dodge competition.  Over the many years of competing, coaching and watching wrestling... i remain amazed to see how wrestlers that say they are good, wrestle good and compete well... dodge competition for victory; probably a product of our societies need to win and make ourselves feel better.  Based on what I am reading and seeing, there are already some great examples: Example 1: Cooper vs Meyers- clear that Stephen is and would win this matchup (again) if the random draw allows them to meet in the finals...as a matter of fact, I'm still not sure how Lampe lost either of his matches against Cooper (especially how often he was able to ankle pick this wrestling "phenom" at will... likely, Cooper will bump "up" to win a championship and move on to college wrestling; weird to me... let the best wrestle the best...!!  Example 2:  Lawson (Woodford) is now at 132 (based on most recent upload of Regional brackets)... interesting... oh, thats right... he got pushed around by Parrott (SK) at the Dragon... oh, that's right... he would also be in a bracket that included maybe one of Kentucky' potential greats (BErvin)... so interesting... but an 8th grader he is and his coaches will "fight" for a state champion or placer in this young very good wrestler... Let the best wrestle the best!!!  I wonder if Parrot will bump?  Oh, while in this same bracket I hear there is another "bump" brewing... yes, SFausz... what a shame!  what a great wrestler!  If I am him, would i seek a championship via dodging competition or choose to seek a way to compete with this animal from Western Kentucky???  in college, I wonder if we will see DTaylor "dodge" KidDynamite... NOT!  Why, because DTaylor knows that his stardom and self satisfaction won't be quenched until he beats this kid (and vice versa).  I wonder how these kids would have done in the 1 and done concept that many of us dealt with back in the day...

This brings up a couple of recent posts that i'd like to comment on:

1) "is wrestling a team or individual sport"?  Really... has anyone heard of the term "mano a mano"... for those that haven't it means 1 on 1.  Clearly our society has created this need for every possible way to get accilaides flowing.... saying that wrestling is a team sport is actually funny.  I actually had a conversation years ago with a coach that was seeking a state championship and chose to literally disperse his kids in a fashion that they weren't used to to win a championship... I shared then as I will now.... wrestling is a composition of individuals that seek individual satisfaction that by their actions creates a team score... yes, the team score is an after the fact product of individual actions.  Not sure about this group, but i'd much rather see a team place all 14 kids then a team that had only 4 studs place and pin their way through and become champions...

2) "random drawing"- really.... its the state championships for crying out loud... how dumb is this concept... do we not actually agree with our statistics enough to allow the best meet the furthest in the tournament?  There are way too many examples of good wrestlers wrestling each other in the quarters because of the random draw... maybe this is the reason why kids bump... for fear that they will finish 3rd vs 2nd... again, not sure about the group, but I think that 3rd placers typically have it rougher and show more guts then some that finish 2nd... enough said... i'll write this concept off as "dumb"!!

Njoy the post!  I look forward to your thoughts and examples...

 

 

[raider 7]

Totally classless post.

[Figure4 3]

I am not sure I disagree with the whole post, but wrestling has been a "TEAM" sport since its acceptance into the KHSAA (GOO help me out here!).  Have we not crowned a team champion since the mid 60's when the sport was accepted?  I know we crown 14 individual champs and that is huge, but every year people brag how they are the team champs, not that they have two individual champs, but placed 7th as a team!!! 

Trained together, beat the hell out of, taken some beatings, bled with, starved with, ran with, drilled with, lifted with, sprinted with, fist fought, laughed with, enjoyed victory with.  THOSE ARE YOUR TEAMMATES!!!!!!

 

As for dodging, you act like this has not happened on all levels in our sport.  For example, Tommy Rowlands wrestled HWT every year since his freshman year of college, including all of his international career.  Last year he cuts to the weight class below to give himself a better chance at qualifying for the olympics.

 

The "dodgers are not trying for the Olympics, but some are trying for a college scholarship!  The first thing a college coach looks at is your state accomplishments, then your national level accomplishments, etc...  If you are not a state champ sometimes you are overlooked.  Maybe SFausz, Lawson, and Parrot are looking to win a title so they can complete at the next level (and they know they have a better chance in a different weight class).

[fanofwrestling6 14]

No I think it's just a classless post.. period... Let's take this for example: You're obviously just a fan or wanna be fan i should say because you obviuosly can't work with anyone. Let's go to the facts first. #1 Wrestlers have respect for each other and know how hard they work therefore a mutual respect is given. #2 Meyers and Cooper have wrestled twice .. guess you didn't know that... #3 It's the head coach of the team that 99.9% of the time will call the shots for what he thinks will be overall what's best for the schools TEAM. Yes it's one on one on the mat but it's still a team sport and the coach is going to do what's best for his kid. The Stephen Myers and Kevin Coopers and Austin Myers probably would read this and think your nuts.

 

It won't be Kevin Cooper jumping or changing weight classes . Stephen is the one more than likely jumping to 160 but only because it's whats best for his TEAM beacuse it's cetainly isn't  because he is afraid to wrestle anyone.

 

Lastly why would you downplay any of these great athletes ? Learn to respect the sport before you knock someone let alone a kid that has done nothing but work his tail off to be the best he can be.. 

[crazyotto 381]

No I think it's just a classless post.. period... Let's take this for example: You're obviously just a fan or wanna be fan i should say because you obviuosly can't work with anyone. Let's go to the facts first. #1 Wrestlers have respect for each other and know how hard they work therefore a mutual respect is given. #2 Meyers and Cooper have wrestled twice .. guess you didn't know that... #3 It's the head coach of the team that 99.9% of the time will call the shots for what he thinks will be overall what's best for the schools TEAM. Yes it's one on one on the mat but it's still a team sport and the coach is going to do what's best for his kid. The Stephen Myers and Kevin Coopers and Austin Myers probably would read this and think your nuts.

 

It won't be Kevin Cooper jumping or changing weight classes . Stephen is the one more than likely jumping to 160 but only because it's whats best for his TEAM beacuse it's cetainly isn't  because he is afraid to wrestle anyone.

 

Lastly why would you downplay any of these great athletes ? Learn to respect the sport before you knock someone let alone a kid that has done nothing but work his tail off to be the best he can be.. 

Yeah! What he said!

[braycael 9]

Very distasteful post, trying to call kids out for wanting to achieve something that you probably never have, and if you did, Congrats. But let these kids have their moment of glory. Stephen dropped a weight to wrestle cooper, and from what I hear, maybe he goes back to 160. And if he does not, and cooper goes 160, so what. They gave people the match they wanted to see TWICE. And if fausz is going 132, why would you say Lawson is running to 132 because he got beat by parrot? Fausz would annihalate him. Just mind your business and enjoy the show. If not, stay home.

[workhard 28]

The ankle picks on Cooper were in the 1rst match and if you were to wrestle Dominic Lampe you might find out that he has a unique set up that has caught almost everyone he wrestled .Cooper didnt get ankle picked a single time in their 2nd match.My point is it was a rude and inaccurate to try and slander Cooper over the 1rst match he proved it wasnt going to happen again in the 2nd match.Good luck to all of these wrestlers in the state tourny go get those state titles.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I believe in 64 and 65 it was a team dual tourny which gave the team title to Aherns Trade both years and ST. Joseph 2nd both years.

 

I was not even born yet but I have had a couple of people tell me this. I know the that Aherns was 1st and St. Joseph was 2nd but I cannot confirm that is was a dual tourney.

 

However don't look at me to side with you as it being a team sport.  I believe it is an individual sport with a group mentality.

 

Oh and I agree that it was a little classless to attack a wrestler for changing wt. classes or whatever.  Pitchers are changed in baseball because of matchups or they walk the individual. Football and basketball double teams great players. Track stars will train for another event to get a title.  No different in wrestling. 

 

Oh and per your examples.  Both Meyers/Cooper and Fausz/Ervin have wrestled each other so they have already sought out the competition. 

 

It actually sounds to me that The Voice has someone at either 160 or 132 that he wants to win state and does not think it is right for either of the above mentioned to move up and take that title away from his chosen one.

[braycael 9]

. 

 

Oh and per your examples.  Both Meyers/Cooper and Fausz/Ervin have wrestled each other so they have already sought out the competition. 

 

It actually sounds to me that The Voice has someone at either 160 or 132 that he wants to win state and does not think it is right for either of the above mentioned to move up and take that title away from his chosen one.

 

exactly, and per his argument, if true, wouldnt he want his wrestlers to wrestle the best? sounds bitter to me

[Mpire 76]

Come on people think reall hard and you can probably figure it out , 2 posts , 1 challenging kids courage for jumping weights 2 who have already wrestled twice lol and then some attacks on Cooper !!!!!!!! About being ankle picked twice by Dominic how did he win , jumping on an eight grader !! Wth and everyone in wrestling generally goes where they want or where their team wants em or where their area can win the most titles ,

Doesn't always work out but it's usually the plan .

Strange picking the two who actually gave everyone what they wanted twice to make a point about running and , I can only think of a couple people who would be so concerned and hateful envious to blast most of the best kids in the state , Someoe whos kid is getting beat or getting bumped and is actually the one crying over their own particular draw lol , either way some troublemakers at least stay out in the open ,

It's the real trash that hides behind numerous usernames and hides who they are while attacking kids who are looking for titles ,

And in case anyone never noticed all bets are of come state time most people would sell their souls for a state title , this prick is an idiot if he thinks everyone is going to see him as some brave voice pointing out any wrong doing , if it meant a state title , my kid would be home out of school running to drop or eating big macs to gain either way , this is one strange and obvious thread , and sorry for you loss VOiCE in the past and what's obviously heading your way .

Obviously not a fan of Stephen or Kevin , someone who probably has had run ins with one or both or who's move or wins have some influence .ding ding ding . Figure it out people

And Goo maybe he wasn't worried about winning state just getting whoever a step closer or a better draw ,or on a podium at all , evidently they are worried about the draw at state , they are afraid of who they are going to hit before finals , Big dogs usually only think in terms of Finals , they are backing a mid to lower to no placer at best

Just a thought

[Keepyourheadup 10]

Come on people think reall hard and you can probably figure it out , 2 posts , 1 challenging kids courage for jumping weights 2 who have already wrestled twice lol and then some attacks on Cooper !!!!!!!! About being ankle picked twice by Dominic how did he win , jumping on an eight grader !! Wth and everyone in wrestling generally goes where they want or where their team wants em or where their area can win the most titles ,

Doesn't always work out but it's usually the plan .

Strange picking the two who actually gave everyone what they wanted twice to make a point about running and , I can only think of a couple people who would be so concerned and hateful envious to blast most of the best kids in the state , Someoe whos kid is getting beat or getting bumped and is actually the one crying over their own particular draw lol , either way some troublemakers at least stay out in the open ,

It's the real trash that hides behind numerous usernames and hides who they are while attacking kids who are looking for titles ,

And in case anyone never noticed all bets are of come state time most people would sell their souls for a state title , this prick is an idiot if he thinks everyone is going to see him as some brave voice pointing out any wrong doing , if it meant a state title , my kid would be home out of school running to drop or eating big macs to gain either way , this is one strange and obvious thread , and sorry for you loss VOiCE in the past and what's obviously heading your way .

Obviously not a fan of Stephen or Kevin , someone who probably has had run ins with one or both or who's move or wins have some influence .ding ding ding . Figure it out people

And Goo maybe he wasn't worried about winning state just getting whoever a step closer or a better draw ,or on a podium at all , evidently they are worried about the draw at state , they are afraid of who they are going to hit before finals , Big dogs usually only think in terms of Finals , they are backing a mid to lower to no placer at best

Just a thought

YEP!!!!! And I'll add what an ass!!!

[Keepyourheadup 10]

Ain't it great when people hide to say crap. If my kid could win a state title by dropping or bumping I sure would stand behind him to do it.

[raidercoach 51]

How can you take the OP seriously when he named his username after that terrible singing show? You can't bring that weak stuff to a wrestling forum. He probably had a hard time deciding between TheVoice and Glee.

[bigedcoach 27]

I have a lot of misconcepts about this post from a coaching standpoint .

Ill give a couple of examples

#1 My wrestlers have always chosen and had final say on what weigh class they go. We give influance and guidance  but considering there are physical issues and mental issues, its always been their and their parents final choice. As a coach you lay out the pros and cons and guide

#2 As for what makes the best team to win the state tournament again, lay out the pros and cons and kids that are serious will usually do the right thing

#3 As for a kid that moves out of a weight class to better their chance for a state championship , I have no issue.

ex. I coached a kid named William Randle who was an undefeated state champ his senior year, but his junior year he weight 153 pound naturally but didnt want to cut weight so he wrestled 160. The issue was in his weight class was the only wrestler in the state that could beat him on a regular basis (Ian Horn from Woodford) He could have gone down a weight class an in my opinion beaten that state champion (Rick McCarty from Fern Creek) but Willian and his parents were not for cutting weigh because he was an all state athlete in 3 sports and didnt want their kid missing meals. So he stayed at 160 an was a state runner up, he pinned all the way too the finals and lost an 6 point match to a 3x state champ who won MOW that year I believe.

Few years later there was a kid at Eastern that could have wrestled 189 or 220 who was a good wrestler but 189 was loaded and he was probably about the 4th or 5th best.I didnt coach this kid but I had a little influence on their assistant coach and explained to him how much easier and better chance he had at 220. That paid off and he won the state tournament that year

 

3rd example We had a kid win the state tournamnet at 220 his junior year and a heavyweight that was in his first year in the sport and placed at the state tournament his JR too, The Following year the 220 wanted to go to 189 so his friend the 285 could go to 220 and they both could win state, They were both ranked #1 in their weight class during the year but both lost in the state finals to kids that they beat during the year. question rise(did cutting weight wear on them, should both have stayed in orginal weight classes and taken their chances there? the 189 lbr did have 2 easy wins over that years 220lb state champ that year when they were bumped up)

 

I think as a coach when it comes to the state tournament you should guide kids to gain the most success. If i had a good kid that had a beast in my weight class that my kid loss to a few times but could beat anyone in the weight class above with out hurting the teams chance to win the big one then yes. Also look at it this way my kid might not win the state tournament buut if he gets in the weight class where the beast is and a few good wrestler got out because they had a better chance to win else where I might keep my kid in so he could place. remember you only have one chance at becoming a 2013 State Wrestling champion, people dont remember who you beat to get there, they remember if you won. Its not dodging, its winning. You get your competition during the season, you win championships in the post season.

 

As for the quote random draw, I still think its the lesser of all evils until we become a larger wrestling state where competition is only spread out in the corners of the state, I do wish there was a better system but sometimes you have to take the fleas with the dog. 

[Cougar05 6]

Yo raidercoach, I love The Voice don't hate.

 

BigEd- are you talking about Sawyers? He was a monster and literally ripped our 215lbs arms off and beat him with them. His name was Keith Lageman and that was the last time he ever lost like that.

[bigedcoach 27]

As for the "is wrestling a team sport" Ill give you this, battles are won by individuals but wars are won by armys. If you ever notice something about sports that has individual awards like wrestling or track, a lot of the individual champions come off good or great teams. They train , are coached and are motivated  by usually more people than them selves. Im not knocking anyone or downgrading anyone but The Meyers boys would probably won State tourneys at Grant Co, but they are better wrestlers at Campbell because of the team concept.

Yo raidercoach, I love The Voice don't hate.

 

BigEd- are you talking about Sawyers? He was a monster and literally ripped our 215lbs arms off and beat him with them. His name was Keith Lageman and that was the last time he ever lost like that.

yes Derek Sawyer and Andre Bradford

[ThirdRound 32]

The best in this state have proven themselves.....Kids go to the weights they have the best shot at winning a State Championship and compiling enough team points so their teams can take that title as well.....This post is in bad taste with this forum.....We don't bash in here and we don't call out kids in here.   This site is here so we can promote the sport we love.  ALL the kids mentioned above are Champions...on and off the mat !   Just enjoy these last two weeks everybody....The cream will rise to the top no matter what weight they decide to go !   Best of luck to all the guys this weekend at Regionals....."Go Time" baby....Nothing better in this world than "Go Time" ! 

[firemans34 33]

Every kid mentioned is a solid kid that doesn't deserve to be called out like that. Since there hasn't been a reply from Voice I would assume he didn't expect such a beat down of an obviously myopic, classless view. Best of luck to all of these "runners".

[Rumbler 62 1]

I don't know if the best want to wrestle the best. What I do know though is if your last name is Ruschell or Ervin, you back down from no one. Props to both those families. They know what competition and the sport of wrestling is all about.