So what is next?

[sbfraz 8]

I think that the KY tournament of champions is basically serving that purpose. Top 4 youth and top 6 MS placers, USAW weight classes. In other words, a "true state champion" could be determined for the kids who are looking for that.

[zaniac 11]

I think that the KY tournament of champions is basically serving that purpose. Top 4 youth and top 6 MS placers, USAW weight classes. In other words, a "true state champion" could be determined for the kids who are looking for that.

 I was told the tournament of champions will be for elementary age eligable kids only. Under 13 as of Jan 1st. Where are the details concerning this? Who is putting this together? Whats the point of having 13/14 yr old kids at the TOC? They already had their shot its called the MS state tournament.

[sbfraz 8]

I don't have all the info. I've just seen what was sent out on the MS and elementary state flyers that went to the coaches. It says top 6 MS and top 4 youth. Hopefully the organizers step up soon with some info. My son is planning to place first at youth state and is really looking forward to the toc. I started a thread about how we as a state should make it a big deal, but didn't get much response. It doesn't seem like many even know about it.

[raidercoach 51]

Having a "real" state tournament after our state tournament doesn't make any sense to me. We're better off putting our efforts behind making our state tournament more competitive. Moving to 16 man brackets will certainly make it more competitive without disrupting all the positive aspects of the current tournament.

[Bluesdad 73]

I think that the KY tournament of champions is basically serving that purpose. Top 4 youth and top 6 MS placers, USAW weight classes. In other words, a "true state champion" could be determined for the kids who are looking for that.

The only problem with this is that The Kentucky TOC will be held on the same day as the TOC in Columbus (i think not 100% positive) and many of us will attend that in place of Kentuckys. We need to think about switching dates so we can attend both if it and the original TOC are on the same date.

[sbfraz 8]

The only problem with this is that The Kentucky TOC will be held on the same day as the TOC in Columbus (i think not 100% positive) and many of us will attend that in place of Kentuckys. We need to think about switching dates so we can attend both if it and the original TOC are on the same date.

KY TOC is 3/30. Ohio TOC is 4/20, so that shouldn't be a problem. At least those are the dates listed for each event. We plan to attend both.

[Bluesdad 73]

KY TOC is 3/30. Ohio TOC is 4/20, so that shouldn't be a problem. At least those are the dates listed for each event. We plan to attend both.

That's great should work out very good in that case.

KY TOC is 3/30. Ohio TOC is 4/20, so that shouldn't be a problem. At least those are the dates listed for each event. We plan to attend both.

That's great should work out very good in that case.

[kdsmith27 14]

　

3.30.13 - Kentucky Tournament of Champions / Youth / MS / Invitation Only - St. X HS

[sbfraz 8]

Who is organizing? River city or KYUSA wrestling?

[Bluesdad 73]

What will the age group and weight classes be. Is it 7U 9U and so on and 60 65 70 so on. Thanks

[zaniac 11]

Who is organizing? River city or KYUSA wrestling?

Lets add, what are the age requirements?

[kdsmith27 14]

Efren is tournament director, USAW weight Classes and age groups.

[zaniac 11]

Efren is tournament director, USAW weight Classes and age groups.

http://www.themat.com/forms/Weights.pdf

[Nkawtg 137]

Having a "real" state tournament after our state tournament doesn't make any sense to me. We're better off putting our efforts behind making our state tournament more competitive. Moving to 16 man brackets will certainly make it more competitive without disrupting all the positive aspects of the current tournament.

1. I agree 100% with you that it makes no sense to have multiple state tournaments. This Sunday is the Kentucky Youth State Championships. Kentucky ToC is a regional event involving out of state kids.

2. I disagree with 16 man brackets. Lets leave it the way it is. Doing a 16 man bracket in a condensed timeframe is asking for trouble. If we go to that, let's not make it 10-12 hour days like the middle schools are doing at state duals, state tournament, Woodford County Invite etc. In other words lets do the best we can to abide by the NFHS 5 match rule. I think it also stifles growth of the sport because moms and little sisters do not want to sit in a gym for 12 hours every Saturday from late October through February. For that matter, I don't want to either and wrestling is a passion of mine.

[marriedtothemat 13]

I think it also stifles growth of the sport because moms and little sisters do not want to sit in a gym for 12 hours every Saturday from late October through February. For that matter, I don't want to either and wrestling is a passion of mine.

[Ranger123 43]

1. I agree 100% with you that it makes no sense to have multiple state tournaments. This Sunday is the Kentucky Youth State Championships. Kentucky ToC is a regional event involving out of state kids.

2. I disagree with 16 man brackets. Lets leave it the way it is. Doing a 16 man bracket in a condensed timeframe is asking for trouble. If we go to that, let's not make it 10-12 hour days like the middle schools are doing at state duals, state tournament, Woodford County Invite etc. In other words lets do the best we can to abide by the NFHS 5 match rule. I think it also stifles growth of the sport because moms and little sisters do not want to sit in a gym for 12 hours every Saturday from late October through February. For that matter, I don't want to either and wrestling is a passion of mine.

I cant speak for woodford co, but Please explain to me how the 5 match rule impacted the length of ms state? Virtually no impact except letting a couple kids wrestle for their medal rather than forfeit. As for state duals it impacted 2 teams. Both coaches had the option to ff and go home but all coaches were fine with wrestling the true second match. And as I recall we were cleaned up and out of the gym before any 10-12 hr timeframe.

[Nkawtg 137]

I think it also stifles growth of the sport because moms and little sisters do not want to sit in a gym for 12 hours every Saturday from late October through February. For that matter, I don't want to either and wrestling is a passion of mine.

If you don't want to sit in a gym all day every Saturday from Oct. through Feb., I suggest you find a new sport. 5 match rule or no 5 match rule this is want the sport involves. We tell our new parents to plan on leaving in the morning before dark and arriving home after dark. If it happens to be a short day then that's a bonus.

[Nkawtg 137]

I cant speak for woodford co, but Please explain to me how the 5 match rule impacted the length of ms state? Virtually no impact except letting a couple kids wrestle for their medal rather than forfeit. As for state duals it impacted 2 teams. Both coaches had the option to ff and go home but all coaches were fine with wrestling the true second match. And as I recall we were cleaned up and out of the gym before any 10-12 hr timeframe.

It wasn't the 5 match rule as much as the 16 man bracket. The 5 match rule simply dictates you can't do 16 man brackets. I'll agree that state probably needs to stay at 16, but it should be the exception and not the rule. I'm astonished at things like the Dragon happen at the high school level.

Ranger--MS State duals were awesome. I loved it. However, it doesn't revolve around you. You may have been done in less than 10 hours. The Louisville folks (River City, Shamrock, and North Oldham) traveled well over 200 miles in addition to the 9-10 hours in the gym. You simply won't get the Union County or Johnson Central folks to events like that. I think the events should be two days, but understand the reluctance to go that route. I don't have the answers and am just participating in the questions.

I'd love to see mat side weigh-ins immediately before wrestling. I'd love to see more duals. I'd like to see a 40 match limit during the season. All I can do is try to influence those I can and stick to what I know works for me and our team.

[Bluesdad 73]

If they love the sport they will stick with it. I mean this is how we were introduced to the sport and we stuck with it. I drove over 500 miles round trip just this past weekend for my son to wrestle 2 tournaments. We were at the gym for 8 1/2 hours the first day for 5 matches. The second day we were there for over 6 hours for 5 matches. So what's the difference in them going through the same experiences as the rest of us. My 9 year old son has done it the last 3 years and loves every second of it. I get a little tired but seeing his face after he wins these tournaments his priceless and I wouldn't change a thing. Infact I wouldnt take anything for the time he and I have spent together for the long hours in these ratty gyms. So introduce them to it. If they like what comes with it great, if not let em move on if they want to. Wrestling will go on and grow with the kids and parents that love it and nit just tolerate it.

[Nkawtg 137]

If they love the sport they will stick with it. I mean this is how we were introduced to the sport and we stuck with it. I drove over 500 miles round trip just this past weekend for my son to wrestle 2 tournaments. We were at the gym for 8 1/2 hours the first day for 5 matches. The second day we were there for over 6 hours for 5 matches. So what's the difference in them going through the same experiences as the rest of us. My 9 year old son has done it the last 3 years and loves every second of it. I get a little tired but seeing his face after he wins these tournaments his priceless and I wouldn't change a thing. Infact I wouldnt take anything for the time he and I have spent together for the long hours in these ratty gyms. So introduce them to it. If they like what comes with it great, if not let em move on if they want to. Wrestling will go on and grow with the kids and parents that love it and nit just tolerate it.

Good, valid points. I can't disagree too much. I love ice cream, but it gets old when I eat it at every meal (and I've tried) though. I just attended the PSU/OSU match and spoke with some college teammates who were there. We discussed the "Cornell" style of making wrestling fun again. Nobody would accuse Kyle Dake or Steve Bosak of not being tough. Regular season youth tournaments do not need to be ball busters.

[Ranger123 43]

It wasn't the 5 match rule as much as the 16 man bracket. The 5 match rule simply dictates you can't do 16 man brackets. I'll agree that state probably needs to stay at 16, but it should be the exception and not the rule. I'm astonished at things like the Dragon happen at the high school level.

Ranger--MS State duals were awesome. I loved it. However, it doesn't revolve around you. You may have been done in less than 10 hours. The Louisville folks (River City, Shamrock, and North Oldham) traveled well over 200 miles in addition to the 9-10 hours in the gym. You simply won't get the Union County or Johnson Central folks to events like that. I think the events should be two days, but understand the reluctance to go that route. I don't have the answers and am just participating in the questions.

I'd love to see mat side weigh-ins immediately before wrestling. I'd love to see more duals. I'd like to see a 40 match limit during the season. All I can do is try to influence those I can and stick to what I know works for me and our team.

The only regular season events you have mentioned are woodford and the dragon. I can't speak to those but things happen especially when you have coaching turnover. I would assume the staffs at those schools will address the issues for next year. If not dont o back. Ive been to events in many states and run by a number of organizations and none are perfect. Issues come up for everyone eventually.

State championship events will never be in everyone's back yard and finish in 3 hrs. If you can't handle driving a few hrs and spending a long day in the gym then you won't be part of a state championship event. Simple facts. As a matter of fact ms state duals were supposed to be in region 2 this yr. Sounds like a broken record but no one wanted to host so cc stepped up. Same thing happened with your district until coach q pulled some strings. When people aren't willing to do the work you can't complain who you have to travel.

[CBender 17]

I've never completely grasped why folks point to the bracket sizes and the 5 match rule when discussing overall tournament length, but no one discusses the typical delays in overall start time, or the length of the intermissions. When weigh-ins are 7:30-9 and you're not wrestling until 10:30, and you have 2 45-60 minute breaks during the day to try to drive extra concession sales, then you can absolutely book a 9pm or later finish time. I'm not pointing to any tournament in particular, but a fair # of the typical weekend tournaments we've attended in KY over the past 2 years have issues of this nature, particularly with start times.

I do understand that occasionally a short break is warranted to try to catch up on bracketing paperwork, team scores, feed/rest officials, or to give consolation wrestlers their required minimum. Those 15-20 minute breaks are not the ones that I refer to here. And I understand that overall manpower plays a role too in how quickly and effectively a tournament can be driven to conclusion.

Even face offs are often significantly time consuming. I love them for regionals and state tournament (esp. with the projector!), but I'm not sure every single tournament every single weekend needs to have one, if time is truly an issue.

My point is that there are ways to drive "the usual weekend tournament" to an earlier finish time that do NOT involve limiting how often you can wrestle, or how many kids can be allowed to wrestle, which is what we're all there for in the first place.

The other elephant in the room is there aren't very many MS tournaments going on in KY on any given weekend, maybe one or two at best, so everybody wants in...until there are more venues able to host/host more often, and you can choose from 3-4 events consistently, it's hard to grow the sport and tell teams "sorry, we're full" at the same time.

[plantmanky1 58]

I've never completely grasped why folks point to the bracket sizes and the 5 match rule when discussing overall tournament length, but no one discusses the typical delays in overall start time, or the length of the intermissions. When weigh-ins are 7:30-9 and you're not wrestling until 10:30, and you have 2 45-60 minute breaks during the day to try to drive extra concession sales, then you can absolutely book a 9pm or later finish time. I'm not pointing to any tournament in particular, but a fair # of the typical weekend tournaments we've attended in KY over the past 2 years have issues of this nature, particularly with start times.

I do understand that occasionally a short break is warranted to try to catch up on bracketing paperwork, team scores, feed/rest officials, or to give consolation wrestlers their required minimum. Those 15-20 minute breaks are not the ones that I refer to here. And I understand that overall manpower plays a role too in how quickly and effectively a tournament can be driven to conclusion.

Even face offs are often significantly time consuming. I love them for regionals and state tournament (esp. with the projector!), but I'm not sure every single tournament every single weekend needs to have one, if time is truly an issue.

My point is that there are ways to drive "the usual weekend tournament" to an earlier finish time that do NOT involve limiting how often you can wrestle, or how many kids can be allowed to wrestle, which is what we're all there for in the first place.

The other elephant in the room is there aren't very many MS tournaments going on in KY on any given weekend, maybe one or two at best, so everybody wants in...until there are more venues able to host/host more often, and you can choose from 3-4 events consistently, it's hard to grow the sport and tell teams "sorry, we're full" at the same time.

I will agree with this post, as someone who runs a very big tournament every year the delayed start times suck.  Several issues create this and one I am seeing more and more is bracket changes that have to be made day of the tournament.   Teams send in rosters of 30 kids and only bring 18.  Our tournament this year had 106 bracket changes between scratches and didnt make weight and having to bump kids up a weight class.  Its become a huge issue that I just cant understand.  If you know kids are not going to wrestle the night before, why not let the host know in advance, heck if they dont make it to the bus in the morning, how bout a text to say kids x, y, and z are scratches.  Someone posted they were having a youth event and charging $10.00 for bracket changes and I totally understand why they do it, and honestly cant blame them.  

[trithis 34]

Plantmanky1 - I feel your frustration and that is why the Bearcat Brawl does not allow bumping up after weigh ins and we don't have a seeding meeting and opted for seeding based on criteria. We have cut the time to wrestle from weigh ins signifigantly and only had minimal changes due to scratches. Coach Roth stayed on the Coaches for their rosters and they were great at letting us know the changes that they had to make. We openly communicated with all of the coaches our expectations and I think we were able to get the 24 man brackets completed with minimal delays. Our goal is to have the most competetive event that KY hosts year in and year out. We seek the best competition and we want them to want to come back each year. Reducing the down time is key.

Cbender - No face offs, short breaks, and placement matches on all mats. We try to think of as many time saving items as we can. It is a long day, but hopefully, the product is well worth it. I think the only thing that might save time, that may or may not go over well, is giving the kids their medals after the medal match and not having them stand on the podium. Might take away from the tourney...who knows.

[JDamron 4]

The Kentucky state youth tournament this year was an absolute delight!! The hosting region did a great job!! I personally thought it went much smoother this year compared to last year. Please allow me to weigh in on the disenfranchisement of the rural teams. I assist the youth team in Martin County (which is East of Johnson County). First off, we are in the dark a little about some of the decisions made by the clubs/schools in Central/Northern Kentucky. However, I do not think it is because we have somehow been conspired against by those schools/clubs. It is a a simple matter of geography. We know you guys have meetings and openly invite schools/clubs statewide. The fact is I am not going to drive 2 1/2 hours for a youth wrestling meeting when most of what is discussed doesn't amount to a hill of beans as far as the action on the mat is concerned. I do wish information was easier to find and access on the Internet. Case in point, I still know very little about the TOC and cannot seem to find solid information anywhere. I think the men we have running things seem to be doing an excellent job promoting and teaching the sport. Do I agree with every decision? No. If I was empowered would you agree with every decision? Absolutely not. But to me when it comes down to it this is about the kids and promoting wrestling. I am tickled the state tournament is held in Lexington instead of Louisville or somewhere far west. Seems to make a lot of sense to me. I do not like the idea of moving the state tournament around because although some years it would be closer, some years it would also be farther away. Btw, I really like doing it the same weekend as the high school state tournament because I believe it adds to the atmosphere for the kids. Kudos to the powers that be who volunteer hours upon hours to promote this sport and run a successful tournament. Btw, no way could Johnson Central or Sheldon Clark host a tournament this size and run things this smoothly. Now, if we decoded to run it as a region we could probably do it at the Pikeville Expo Center. But honestly, I would rather we continue doing what we are doing and let the hosting region keep the money. I would like to know about vendor opportunities though. The people selling shirts during the Youth State Tournament said they were from River City Wrestling. Are Louisville teams in your region? How did they get the chance to set up their vending? That could be something that could be changed every year. Allowing different regions to fund raise at the tournament each year. Just a thought. Anyway, thanks for your time and hard work.