trithis 34 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 I second that motion Keith. Some people just don't realize how good things really are. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raidercoach 51 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Thank You. Finally, you see by NOT moving the state tournament from region to region has disenfranchised most all of the Rural Youth Teams. In no way is it practical for any rural teams to be able to provide 30 to 40 adult volunteers to travel over 100 miles and stay the night to run the youth state. The argument that is always provided by those in “power” and was given by http://www.kentuckywrestling.com/forums/index.php?/user/19978-plantmanky1/'>plantmanky1 (But yet, there are only so many places that can hold 1000 kids to wrestle.) is no one in rural area have the ability or resources. Frankly that is a crock of B.S. If you look back at the history of the Elementary State Tournament you will see Larue (350 kids), McCrery (350 kids) Connor (750 Kids), Johnson County, (750) are example of teams who successful held the state tournament. Honestly my personal experiences of the elementary state tournament were more enjoyable at the different sight. Our team was the last team to successfully host the state tournament and that was done with the help of a couple other teams. The fact is, no one team has enough man power to host the state tournament and do it right by themselves anymore. Our entire region is hosting the state this year and to be honest, our program would rather not have been involved with it at all. It takes a ton of work from a lot people and when it is all said and done, their isn't enough money after you split the profits between all the teams for it to be worth the headache. The benefits of getting the youth kids in the same venue as the high school state the day after is priceless. Allowing the kids to come down the day before to see the high school finals can only help grow and develop young wrestlers and their families. It is the best advertisement to the youth kids and their families our state can offer. I think this overrides your personal experience and enjoyment of a different site, agree? If not, then it is obvious your preference is catering to you and your needs versus what's best for the state. If your team is hurting for money, I'm sure many people would give you many better ideas to raise money. It should not be the role of the association to raise money for selected "rural" teams. The last thing the association needs is to start a welfare system. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCB 2 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Ok JCB then tell me, why didnt any of the rural teams speak up when the discussion of moving the event to Frankfort was brought up? Or how about the move to the Horse Park? They could have spoke up and asked for it to be in their area, did they? Many did express concerns. If you go back and read some of the post dated 7-8-09, 2-6-10 & 1-21-11( I am sure that they are other) you will see myself and other have consistently questioned why the state tournament did not continue to be move around from region to region as it was in the beginning. I have been consistence in describing what I see at the short coming of the youth association. I only posted on this subject in an effort to make positive changes that would grow the sport, not to negatively attack any one. Currently they are probably no less than 10 teams, west, south and east of Lexington who could and would affectedly host the tournament. As I started this post with “wheels on the bus goes around and around”. Raidercoach You are simply wrong. The last 2 elementary tournaments held before it went to Frankfort had over 750 wrestlers and was done well and over by 6 PM. You truly believe another 100 to 150 kids makes it that much of a difference. I can only speak for Johnson County we have and could successful host the Elementary State Tournament. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pioneer_pride 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Keith that looks great and clarifies a lot. Something we do in our region is have youth and ms dual meets along side hs varsity. Are these events covered or would the host scbool need to charter the event? I understand the usa members would be based on your post, but what about the schools liability? Just curious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raidercoach 51 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Many did express concerns. If you go back and read some of the post dated 7-8-09, 2-6-10 & 1-21-11( I am sure that they are other) you will see myself and other have consistently questioned why the state tournament did not continue to be move around from region to region as it was in the beginning. I have been consistence in describing what I see at the short coming of the youth association. I only posted on this subject in an effort to make positive changes that would grow the sport, not to negatively attack any one. Currently they are probably no less than 10 teams, west, south and east of Lexington who could and would affectedly host the tournament. As I started this post with “wheels on the bus goes around and around”. Raidercoach You are simply wrong. The last 2 elementary tournaments held before it went to Frankfort had over 750 wrestlers and was done well and over by 6 PM. You truly believe another 100 to 150 kids makes it that much of a difference. I can only speak for Johnson County we have and could successful host the Elementary State Tournament. First, there is NO WAY you had near 750 wrestlers the year you hosted. In fact, I doubt you even had half that many kids there that year. We had 350 kids at the Rumble this year and it is a massive undertaking to run that tournament, and we have probably the largest contingent in the state at the youth level. I don't have the numbers, but I would guess you probably had closer to 300-350 kids the year you hosted. You claim it was ran "successfully" the year you hosted, yet to this day that tournament is notoriously considered the worst ran tournament by many people I know from different schools from across the state. It started hours late and finished way past the time you claim. That is all I will say about it because I really don't want to offend anyone there who probably worked their tail off. The fact is, running a tournament of that size takes more than one team...no question about it. I shiver at the idea of our team attempting to host a 1000 kid tournament by ourselves. We wouldn't attempt it out of respect to the rest of the state. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kdsmith27 14 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Keith that looks great and clarifies a lot. Something we do in our region is have youth and ms dual meets along side hs varsity. Are these events covered or would the host scbool need to charter the event? I understand the usa members would be based on your post, but what about the schools liability? Just curious. Good question for the school, but in my opinion they are not.. A USAW event sanction would be the way to go. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Keith that looks great and clarifies a lot. Something we do in our region is have youth and ms dual meets along side hs varsity. Are these events covered or would the host scbool need to charter the event? I understand the usa members would be based on your post, but what about the schools liability? Just curious. Keith that looks great and clarifies a lot. Something we do in our region is have youth and ms dual meets along side hs varsity. Are these events covered or would the host scbool need to charter the event? I understand the usa members would be based on your post, but what about the schools liability? Just curious. WE did that at Eastern sometimes and we were covered, Eastern had a copy of our cert and we were good, we would wrestle JVs and middle school kids Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pioneer_pride 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 WE did that at Eastern sometimes and we were covered, Eastern had a copy of our cert and we were good, we would wrestle JVs and middle school kids I was talking to Ranger about this topic tonight. I hope any ms/youth coaches watching this board make sure they have proper insurance coverage. Do not assume you, the kids, the school are covered. Conner had a kid sue the school years ago. From what i was told about the lawsuit, the kid's family tried to sue everyone including 1) the volunteer youth coach 2) the varsity head coach 3) the AD 4) the principal 5) the BOE. The only person present when this kid got injured was the volunteer youth coach. Ranger told me it costs $40 to sanction your event. When we ran youth/ms dual meets alongside the varsity meet at Conner, the AD told me the gate was more than the varsity boys basketball gate would be for a Friday night. Not sure what the $ amount was, but easily more than $40. All you youth/ms coaches out there work very hard and most parents appreciate that. But don't think for 1 second if their kid gets a serious injury you will not be sued!!! Sorry to hijack the thread but I feel we might have some bigtime risk here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pioneer_pride 1 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 biged - in reply to your original questions, I'm not sure if the state taking over the middle school sports is picking up steam or not, but to me if the state does, it will be bad for wrestling. Some concerns I would have is: 1) title ix (not sure if this is an issue at middle school or not) 2) the state would probably split and have club state & school state. you would end up with two "lesser" tournaments in my opinion. 3) its very hard to convince an AD or principal to give wrestling a chance. If they did not grow up in the sport, odds are not good. Have you heard more about this? What's your opinion on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plantmanky1 58 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 For Everyone's information..........The state will be taking over MS athletics anytime soon for this main reason. KDE can not mandate that a school join an association. Yes in High school everyone joins, but they don't have too, not by rule. In the task force meetings one of the state representatives that was "all for" a middle school athletic association brought in the presidents from the Tennessee and Illinois middle school athletic associations. There were many positives that both of those organizations had, but one major negative was the fact that..........................................................less than 30% of the state middle schools joined the associations in those states!!! Top that with the fact in Illinois for a middle school to have all their sports programs in the IMSAA, it cost over $4000 a year in annual fees, that's more than schools pay the KHSAA isn't it? (I thought the current annual fee is $3500, someone correct me if I am wrong.) Moral of the point, it wont be happening anytime soon, unless KDE and Frankfort find boat loads of money to fund it, which they wont. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCB 2 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 biged - in reply to your original questions, I'm not sure if the state taking over the middle school sports is picking up steam or not, but to me if the state does, it will be bad for wrestling. Some concerns I would have is: 1) title ix (not sure if this is an issue at middle school or not) 2) the state would probably split and have club state & school state. you would end up with two "lesser" tournaments in my opinion. 3) its very hard to convince an AD or principal to give wrestling a chance. If they did not grow up in the sport, odds are not good. Have you heard more about this? What's your opinion on this? Agee 100% Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bearcats Coach 94 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 I was at the youth state tournament when it was at Johnson County. We didn't get out of there until very late. It was close to 11pm trust me, I was there. I remember because Coach Badida was there and there was an issue with team scores and they were trying to figure all that out. There was hardly anyone left in the gym, except for those few teams waiting on the team results to claim their trophy. Weigh-Ins that day took forever and that was with about 400-500 kids, maybe, could have been less or more. Didn't get started wrestling till late that day as well. Its not easy to run a tournament of this size. So trying to say you can host a youth state tournament that has well over a 1000 kids. This is a job folks. I've been involved running the youth state tournament in the past with Stan Martin and it takes a lot work from many many people and other teams. Raider Youth and Campbell County are two very successful programs that have a great following from their parents/fans. It takes everyone involved to pull such an event off and to do it Successfully. Heck I host a MS tournament with about 20 teams in a very small gym, and it takes my staff from April till December to make it run smoothly. I mean anyone can throw a tournament together. But to run a very successful tournament, so that teams want to come back to it should be your goal. Running tournaments aren't as easy as some paint the picture to be. My hats go off to ALL the people who do it, rather its a success or not, because I know its a lot of work. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesdad 73 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 I don't recall seeing anyone post that it was easy. It was just stated that a rural (as you guys call us) county could and have hosted it in the past. But anyone has to give kudos to anyone that host the state tourney. But I have to agree a rural county should have the same opportunity has urban counties at hosting the state tourney if they would like the opportunity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
trithis 34 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Last time I checked the Ryle and Campbell county programs are not urban programs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted February 8, 2013 Blue/jcb - please have someone from your team at the spring meeting as I am 99% sure you can host youth state in 2014. As someone stated earlier, n ky is hosting this year because no one else wanted it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCB 2 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 Blue/jcb - please have someone from your team at the spring meeting as I am 99% sure you can host youth state in 2014. As someone stated earlier, n ky is hosting this year because no one else wanted it. I started this post with tell all that many teams East, West, and South of Lexington feel powerless and are disfranchised with the association due to some of the decisions made in the past. The greatest decision made be the association was to move the state tournament to Frankfort. This make it unfeasible for any team other than one from Lexington- Louisville – Cincinnati triangle to be the host. Look back at the first 5 years the tournament was held in all areas of the state with the exception of the far west. ( La Rue, Louisville, Campbell County, Johnson County and McCreary) Follow the money since the tournament was move to Frankfort. The money only goes in one direction. (north) Please do not take me wrong teams who have hosted the state tournament earned every penny they made no matter if it was at Frankfort or not. To reply to you post. We would love to host the youth state tournament again. Lets go ahead and set a date. Looking at the 2014 calendar the week after the high school state would be the 22nd. Tentatively can we go ahead and schedule the youth state tournament at Johnson Central High School for the 22nd Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nkawtg 137 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 Why don't you host it in Lexington? Besides do you have the hotels to support a 1 day tournament of 1000 plus kids? That's a long drive for 90% of the participants. I think you'll be hard pressed to get it moved from wherever HS state is. It's a great setup. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JCB 2 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 Why don't you host it in Lexington? Besides do you have the hotels to support a 1 day tournament of 1000 plus kids? That's a long drive for 90% of the participants. I think you'll be hard pressed to get it moved from wherever HS state is. It's a great setup. I was just having some fun. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 How does Frankfort or Lexington make it easy on a cincinnati area team and unfeasible for an eastern ky team? Is an 1:30-2 hrs that much closer than 2-2:30? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
raidercoach 51 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 I started this post with tell all that many teams East, West, and South of Lexington feel powerless and are disfranchised with the association due to some of the decisions made in the past. The greatest decision made be the association was to move the state tournament to Frankfort. This make it unfeasible for any team other than one from Lexington- Louisville – Cincinnati triangle to be the host. Look back at the first 5 years the tournament was held in all areas of the state with the exception of the far west. ( La Rue, Louisville, Campbell County, Johnson County and McCreary) Follow the money since the tournament was move to Frankfort. The money only goes in one direction. (north) Please do not take me wrong teams who have hosted the state tournament earned every penny they made no matter if it was at Frankfort or not. To reply to you post. We would love to host the youth state tournament again. Lets go ahead and set a date. Looking at the 2014 calendar the week after the high school state would be the 22nd. Tentatively can we go ahead and schedule the youth state tournament at Johnson Central High School for the 22nd Moving the tournament to the location of the high school state was the best decision the youth association ever made. Unless you and your team acknowledge the mistakes at the last state tournament you ran and your plan to prevent it if you hosted again, I doubt anyone would go along with allowing JC to host by themselves. You claim you ran the state tournament of 750 kids (it was more like 300) "successfully" but many disagree with your definition of successful. You've made it clear why you want to host; money and convenience for you. You complained about the youth association making decisions to only help the host team, but yet all you have complained about is money and proximity of the state tournament to where you live. Where are the state tournaments for football and basketball hosted? Are there any state tournaments hosted in Eastern Kentucky? I'm pretty sure there aren't any in Northern Kentucky. Just get over it already. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heavy83 15 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 Just to have a little fun when Ryle hosted the youth in Franfort we had one heck of a hospitality room Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MLee 68 Report post Posted February 9, 2013 I started this post with tell all that many teams East, West, and South of Lexington feel powerless and are disfranchised with the association due to some of the decisions made in the past. The greatest decision made be the association was to move the state tournament to Frankfort. This make it unfeasible for any team other than one from Lexington- Louisville – Cincinnati triangle to be the host. Look back at the first 5 years the tournament was held in all areas of the state with the exception of the far west. ( La Rue, Louisville, Campbell County, Johnson County and McCreary) Follow the money since the tournament was move to Frankfort. The money only goes in one direction. (north) Please do not take me wrong teams who have hosted the state tournament earned every penny they made no matter if it was at Frankfort or not. To reply to you post. We would love to host the youth state tournament again. Lets go ahead and set a date. Looking at the 2014 calendar the week after the high school state would be the 22nd. Tentatively can we go ahead and schedule the youth state tournament at Johnson Central High School for the 22nd The geographical center of Kentucky is somewhere around Lebanon in Marion County....an hour further west for Johnson County folks. The population center of Kentucky is in Willisburg....once again an hour further west for Johnson County folks. Lexington is the closest "big" city to both of those places and where the HS tournament is currently held. Is it possible the decision made by the association to move the location had more to do w/ these factors (that affect ALL) and not this mysterious "bermuda triangle" conspiracy against Johnson County and the rural areas? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
2yankees3 2 Report post Posted February 11, 2013 Our kids wrestle in middle/high school gyms all most every weekend. When they walk into a venue such as altech or the convention center they feel as if they are on the same level as the high school athletes. Isnt this what we want? We would love to host the state tournament, but we also realize that we do not have the man power to do so. If we did, we would host it where the high school wrestles theirs. Hosting a state tournament in "rural area school" is not practical. Our school system has three gyms on campus, but who wants to go from gym to gym to gym. As far as the funding of our program we collect money from the parents for AAU and USA cards. We have also had different fundraisers throughout the season. Little Ceasers has a great pizza kit fundraiser. This season isnt finished yet and we are now working on fundraisers for next season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bluesdad 73 Report post Posted February 11, 2013 Heck keep it were it's at or move it back to Frankfort. The main thing that needs to be fixed is the way our tournament is ran. Host seeding tournaments and regionals. Have 16 or 32 man brackets. Let middle school kids that place at the midfle school tournament still enter. Quit watering down the tournament, let's have true youth state champions. In WV, OH, PA and so on it is a great accomplishment to win the state championship. Only thing now that our kids get out of it now is having their names called in the face off. If your afraid it will make less experienced kids show up, have a novice state tournament aswell. Best of both worlds. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
