Give me a good reason why?

[Washingtonian1 0]

Give me a good reason why...

We do not truely seed the state tournament?

and

Why should only one wrestler per weight class gets to represent his or her team at regionals or state? Why not two or three?

[braycael 9]

its too difficult to truly seed the state tournament. one reason, its a 32 man bracket, major overload. another, seeding is based on a combination of things, head to head, record, common opponents, etc, this makes it difficult because there are a lot of small schools that do not get to travel all over the state, thus not getting to see a lot of wrestlers and/or common opponents. some schools like cc, sk, and ryle up north wrestle mostly an out of state schedule in season, and may take some bumps along the way and might not have a better record than a kid who wrestles a weaker schedule and goes undefeated, which still could lead to your two best wrestlers in the state being a 2/3 seed and on the same side of the bracket, and an average wrestler whith maybe 0 or 1 losses as your overall 1 seed. i could go on a big rant as to why they dont, but plain and simple with the current format it is just not feasible. i would like to see the state tournament seeded, it just wont ever happen.

and can you give a good reason why a team SHOULD have multiple wrestlers per weight class at regionals? unless you only have one wrestler allowed to score team points, but even in this scenario it is still unfair to teams competing for a title. it just throws an unnecessary wrench in the mix.

[crazyotto 381]

I can speak for OH which is broken into four regions. Each region consists of four sectionals which all participate in. Top four go onto district which is seeded per sectional placement, a 16 man bracket. There are four districts. Top four go to the state tourney, which is seeded via district placement with some exceptions such as separation of previous state champs/high placers. Again, a 16 man bracket.This is a true state tournament with no fish. Seeds are solely based on performance at sectional then district. Rankings do not come into play at all. For example, at districts a sectional 1st place meets a 4th place in the first round and the 2nd meets the 3rd. This same scenario (1 v 4, 2 v 3) plays out at the state tourney. This is a great money maker for the OHSAA. So, no it is not too difficult to seed. The wrestlers do it for you. The only seeding takes place at the sectional level, and here it is not a difficult task at all with very few full brackets. I cannot think of a reason the KHSAA hasn't adopted this or a similar set up. Why are 32 kids going to the state tourney? Certainly half of them don't belong, no offense. In what other sport do we send everybody to the state tourney? Not football or basketball. Making it to state should mean something.

[bigedcoach 27]

Ill answer the second part first,

If you allow more than one person per weight class represent one scholl , then large programs like trinity or X would have a tremendous advantage because for the norm they are 2-3 deep in each weight class and are competitive in many of those classes, even if they only score 1 per team, their second and third teamers would take points from teams that arent that deep. In close state tournaments, even a kid that qualifes and just scores 4 or 5 team points gets bumped by a quality 2nd team kid. They do this on the middle school level and if I wasnt a proponent about participation at the younger ages then I would suggest they would drop that rule too.

now the first part seeding the state tourney has too many scenerios, what about the kid who is a regional champ that hasnt faced top competition. what about the kid who was regional runner up or even 3rd who had beaten most of the other regional champs. right now the draw with the 1 vs 4 is the best we can do, every knows sometimes it takes a little luck to have a chance to win the big one(sad but true)

Otto - its true the 32 man bracket does bring some less than quality to the state championship but here is the main reason, Kentucky does not and probably wil not ever have the depth of wrestling as say ohio or penn. The 32 man bracket was brought out to bring growth to the sport in Ky and it has. there are approximately 40 percent growth in participation in wrestling in the state. even as late as 15 years ago there were only 55 wrestling programs in the state and serious talk about the KHSAA droping the sport of wrestling. Im not saying that watering down competition was the best option but I wrestled in a 8 man bracket state tournament and you did see a drop in the crowd. I wish we had the wrestling depth but KY doesnt have the population to support it and unfortunitly the round ball is worshiped in this state more that the mat and its hard to support both sports on the same level. The only way KY is going to grow and take the next step is to have a division 1 program in college.

[Washingtonian1 0]

Here is Washington States State Tournament keep in mind it is a 16 man bracket.

1. Must be a regional champion in the current year AND;

2. Must have placed 1 through 8 in any WIAA State Championship in Washington State in any weight class, in any previous year AND;

3. Must be one of at least two wrestlers in the weight class who qualify under 1 and 2 above.

In the event the above criteria qualify two or more wrestlers in a weight class the following method of granting special seeding consideration shall be applied. When applying the special consideration, the integrity of the regional rotation pattern shall be maintained.

1. In the event there are only two qualified wrestlers but they are already in opposite half-brackets then no changes shall be made.

2. In the event there are only two qualified wrestlers but in the same half-bracket then a blind draw will determine which of the alternate regional seeding patterns will be applied in order to separate the two wrestlers into opposite half-brackets.

3. In the event there are three qualified wrestlers then;

a. The tournament manager will select the only regional seeding pattern which places the qualified wrestler with the highest returning state place in one half-bracket and the remaining two wrestlers in the opposite half-bracket.

b. In the event of a tie in 3a above, the tournament manager will select the only regional seeding pattern which places the qualified wrestler with the highest returning multiple state places in one half-bracket and the remaining two wrestlers in the opposite half-bracket.

c. In the event of a tie in 3b above, a blind draw will determine the regional seeding pattern that places one wrestler in a solo half-bracket.

4. In the event there are four or more qualified wrestlers then;

a. The tournament manager will select the only regional seeding pattern that places the wrestlers with the two highest returning places in opposite half-brackets.

b. In the event of a tie in 4a above, the tournament manager will select the only regional seeding pattern which places the two wrestlers with the highest multiple state places in opposite half-brackets. If possible to determine highest seeds in order one through 4, they should be paired with 1 and 4 in the same half-bracket and 2 and 3 in the other half-bracket.

5. In the event there are one or more wrestlers who have benefited from seeding consideration who then fail to successfully weigh-in and there also exists a returning state place winner from the same region who finished second in that region in the current year, then the later wrestler shall be rotated to the regional champion's position in the bracket and shall receive seeding consideration. In the event the affected wrestler is one of three or more qualified wrestlers then procedures 3 and 4 will be applied, as necessary.

[Washingtonian1 0]

We need to give these kids the opportunity to represent their school regardless of their spot on the depth chart. if only one can score team points what is the harm? so what if trinity, cc, and union send 20 wrestlers to state. If they can beat out the competition they deserve to move on. changing this rule we would ensure we are sending the absolute best kids to state, better wrestlers could wrestle at their most competitive weight and not worry about stepping on any senior's toes from their schools, and good under class man could gain experience to help take their wrestling to the next level. I don't see the down side.

[Wildblueeyes 6]

Like we have told our Ohio friends, if you don't like the way we do it in Kentucky then hit highway 64 west and head on back to Washington. I am so tired of people from other states complaing about the way we do things. We know we aren't as great as the state they came from but, we are what we are and our kids love to wrestle not matter what size school they come from!

[Washingtonian1 0]

I am a coach in Kentucky and a member of the Coaches Association. So please type with respect. Kentucky wrestling is on the rise and I want to be a part of it. However I believe some small changes could open up a ton of opportunities for our boys and girls.

[Wildblueeyes 6]

Don't be so touchy Washington. After all the complaining of the last year it just gets old. I have been around wrestling quite a long time. The format of our tournament keeps everyone on a level playing field in my opionion. Someone from a small school has just a good a chance to go to state as someone from a large school. Why reference that you are a coach and member of the association. Does that give your opinion more standing than a "non-member" just wondering.

[handcontrol 18]

I personally think that those "extras" should have a qualifier first. Why not have a true JV state, where the winners in each weight class could compete unattached at the Varsity level at Regionals. They win the 120 pound JV state title then they can compete unattached at the Regional tournament. This not only increases the number of participants in the post season but gives atheletes that are on a very tough squad the opportunity to show their stuff at the next level. By allowing them to compete unattached they don't score points for their repsective teams. So the team scores would only be skewed from the perspectives of loses to the JV guy, and if it is a competitive weight class then the JV kid could upset and take points away from his own team.

I know it would take a lot of time to accomplish this, but it would help to grow the sport.

[Washingtonian1 0]

In reference to my statement, I was assuring you I have a lot invested into Kentucky wrestling and I consider myself more than an out of stater with 2 cents. Also, I don't feel that being a member holds any weight and I know it surely doesn't on a discussion board. Handcontrol you are on the money. Regardless of the changes, if any, we make it would take a lot of time to accomplish. But first we have to come to terms that not all regional champions are created equal (on the mat). Yet, that is exactly what the current blind draw system suggests. Is there any other seeding criterias we could look at adopting where a committee would not have to be used? Remember seeding is not about dodging other skilled wrestlers it is simply about creating the best final matches possible based off past accomplishments.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

If you want the best bracket possible, just let Ranger fill it out, no draw, no comittee, JUST RANGER. LOL (even though its better than any idea I've heard yet, this is just meant as a joke)

[bigedcoach 27]

Wash---- If you allow more than 1entrant per weight class then you will create even a greater divide. smaller programs will never have a chance because they couldnt play the numbers game like Trinity or X could. even programs like Union , LaRue and CC would suffer because they couldnt play the number game. What state even allows this? Also I bet if a Varsity scorer goes against a non scorer I bet I know who will win that match especially at the state tournament. What state even allows this. I never knew a sport that allows JV or second team kids participate in the State tournament. I know some JV kids on one team are way better than other kids on other teams but maybe they should try to win that varsity spot or go somewhere else.

[Washingtonian1 0]

I know Washington does . Matter of fact this year two boys at 132 lbs from Tahoma HS placed 1st and 4th at the State Tournament. Also, back in 2008 the number 2 and 3 kid on from Lake Stevens at 103 wrestled in the State Finals… the 3^rd kid on the depth chart won a state title that year. If Trinity has 2 of the best kids in the state at the same weight class, so be it, they deserve to get medals. It is an individual sport so why does it matter if the bigger schools send more kids? Win your team title at the State Duals.

[handcontrol 18]

Those who whine about seeding must have lost!!!!!

If you are the best wrestler then you win no matter what your seed. What you are seeded second and get second you have one loss at the state tourney just like the guy who took third. Oh, but wait you got to make the finals, Bullsh*t!!!!! I personally would rather go out with the win!!!

[Wildblueeyes 6]

This is my opinion, and that is all it is. If you do what Washington is suggesting you are going to have to break the schools into division, small, medium and large. Much like football. That would be the only way the smaller schools would be able to compete. Some schools barely have enough wrestlers to make a full line up. If Kentucky were to do what Washington has suggested, it would ruin the sport of wrestling for the state of Kentucky. In Kentucky the sport doesn't get the recognition like it does is other states. This has been said numerous times. I know in our area if it isn't football or basketball it doesn't matter. I'm with bigedcoach on this one!

[grappler-of-old 44]

I like handcontrols idea. This would only allow 1 more kid at each wt. class to participate in the regional tourney. It would affect the team scores very little and affect the small schools very little.

It may even help small schools. If they only have 5-9 kids on the team usually they spread them out and a few kids are wrestling at their wrong wt. class. Now they can wrestle their best wt. class and do well at the regional tourny.

Why not allow 14 more kids the opportunity to participate? How many of these 14 do you think would actually make it to the state tourny? 3-4 maybe.

[Buckeye 20]

As long as the KHSAA only recognizes the team state champion being the champion at the individual state tournament and does not have a separate team state tournament than it will not work.

[eville dad 17]

Those who whine about seeding must have lost!!!!!

If you are the best wrestler then you win no matter what your seed. What you are seeded second and get second you have one loss at the state tourney just like the guy who took third. Oh, but wait you got to make the finals, Bullsh*t!!!!! I personally would rather go out with the win!!!

They are wrestling to claim a championship, everything else is a consolation, seed it or not, the best is always crowned the champion.

[Mpire 76]

Allowing multiple kids from the same school would be great for some but change the sport completely . It does seem unfair that some good kids never make it to state .