VisionQuest 64 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Not to many people on this site would of thoght this would of happend.... Corey Spencer of Johnson Central defeated both the the 3A and the 2A State Champion of WV. Spencer beat the State 3A state champion by a major decision 15-5 , and pinnrd the 1A/2A State Champion. He also beat the 2nd, 3rd and 5th place finishers in this years state tournament. IMO, Spencer, should of been MOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilreb 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Let me put things in a different perspective. There were 5 seniors ranked in the top 20 at 112 throughout the entire state. So, tell me again why this fellow should have been MOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VisionQuest 64 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 First off, I won't get in to a shouting match over who should of have won MOW. Courtney is derserving of the MOW, as is a few others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 The finals match is what sticks out in most peoples mind the most. And in most peoples mind Spencer did not defeat Sullivan. Sullivan defeated Sullivan. What he accomplished throughout the season does not matter to most. Once again (we have had this discussion before) it depends on what you believe the MOW is. I personally believe it is the best wrestler in the state tourney. Can you honestly say that he is pound for pound on the same level as Courtney, Ervin, Reid or Peace. Who I believe are the top 4 (in that order) in our state. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluegrassbrawler 2 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Spencer, undoubtedly, had the most difficult road to the state finals. In the second round he defeated the 3rd placer, in the quarters he defeated the 6 placer, and in the semis defeated the 5th placer. Most importantly, in the finals, he beat the 3 time undefeated state champ. If the MOW goes to the wrestler with the most impressive tournament, then Spencer gets my vote. If it goes to the wrestler with the greatest career or season, then give it to somebody else. His state tournament run was tougher than anyone else's, and he faced an opponent who nobody could beat up until that point. Courtney, Reid, Peace and Ervin are all incredible talents, and are very deserving of the award. I too do not believe that Spencer belongs on the same list as them. But, at the 2008 Kentucky State Wrestling Tournament, he deserved the OW for capping off an impressive tournament run by doing the impossible in the finals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MatMama 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Spencer, undoubtedly, had the most difficult road to the state finals. In the second round he defeated the 3rd placer, in the quarters he defeated the 6 placer, and in the semis defeated the 5th placer. Most importantly, in the finals, he beat the 3 time undefeated state champ. If the MOW goes to the wrestler with the most impressive tournament, then Spencer gets my vote. If it goes to the wrestler with the greatest career or season, then give it to somebody else. His state tournament run was tougher than anyone else's, and he faced an opponent who nobody could beat up until that point. Courtney, Reid, Peace and Ervin are all incredible talents, and are very deserving of the award. I too do not believe that Spencer belongs on the same list as them. But, at the 2008 Kentucky State Wrestling Tournament, he deserved the OW for capping off an impressive tournament run by doing the impossible in the finals.Bluegrass, I think you make a compelling case. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 I believe you must look at his overall wrestling, not who he defeated. The award is called the "Most Outstanding Wrestler". Not "Best in Tournament" award. If you believe this then all we have to do is look at the toughest weight class prior to wrestling, the winner of that wt. class will be named most outstanding wrestler. Truth is most of the time there are between 2-5 wrestlers that coaches already know they are going to watch for this award. I'm not in favor of the wrestler who gets the upset winning the award. The state must be proud of their most outstand wrestler. If you were to go to a wrestling meet with teh MOW you should be able to proudly say that is KY's best wrestler. Not taking anything from Spencer I would want him on my team, but if we were picking the state champions to be on my team, he would not be my number 1 pick. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
armbar101 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 it is my understanding that the award is also based on not who you beat but how bad you beat them. a kid who won by 1 point althe way to the finals then won by 2 or something versus a kid who pinned every kid then teched the kid in the finals. which one gets it? the kid that pinned. courtney dominated his kids all through the tourney then pinned sanders in the finals. spencer i didn't watch to much but i saw (what i think) was his match with dan smith, it was a very close match as was the rest of his. so that is why he didn't get it. all his matches were very close and had the potential for him to loose . none of courtney's matches even had the thought the he was going to loose. air-go MOW. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dagger 7 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 It is not who has the best year it is who wrestled the best at the state tournament that should get MOW.If you want to give out an award for who had the best year then give out a Mr. Wrestler. Basketball does it so why not wrestling. They also give out a MVP at the state tounament to the player that has the tournament. This would give the wrestlers something else to work for. Just a thought!!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilreb 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Let's look at Harrison's trip. Pin, Pin, 15-0,16-0,Pin. Did he even have a point scored against him? That is OUTSTANDING in my book and the coaches agreed. Justin Davis beat the number 1 & 2 to win state.Congrats to Spencer, he is tough, his glory will live forever as he toppled the great Travis Sullivan. Just like DC Evans blew the chance to topple the King. Harrison Courtney is the greatest and most outstanding Ky wrestler I have ever seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MatMama 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Let's look at Harrison's trip. Pin, Pin, 15-0,16-0,Pin. Did he even have a point scored against him? That is OUTSTANDING in my book and the coaches agreed. Justin Davis beat the number 1 & 2 to win state.Congrats to Spencer, he is tough, his glory will live forever as he toppled the great Travis Sullivan. Just like DC Evans blew the chance to topple the King. Harrison Courtney is the greatest and most outstanding Ky wrestler I have ever seen. I tend to agree with you, Reb. The only wrestler IMHO who came close was Wolsifer. Did those two ever wrestle? I think Johnny was always in a heavier class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lilreb 0 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 I saw very little "wrestling" between Sullivan and Spencer. Stalling, fleeing, poor starts, bad form, and a generalized boring match. It reminded me of a basketball game between University of Cincinnati and UK many years ago. UC were the gross underdogs so their strategy was to stand at the half court line and pass the ball and stall. For 38 minutes we saw UC do nothing but stall therefore very few points were scored by either team. UC kept the score close but were in no way as good as UK. Their strategy, keep it close then try to beat UK in the last 2-3 minutes of the game. UC lost. After that game, NCAA changed the rules limiting the offensive team to 45 seconds to score. This was done in order to make the game offensive and more exciting. Spencer's strategy was very similiar. He kept it close by stalling and won it at the end. Great strategy, yes, great wrestling, absolutely not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kdsmith27 14 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 Lets help this blog out. When the coaches are given the MVP ballot, it states that the only consideration for MVP is what is done in the State Tournament. No past accomplishments are to be considered. So all this he did this and he did that is not a factor in the decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluegrassbrawler 2 Report post Posted March 8, 2008 I believe you must look at his overall wrestling, not who he defeated. The award is called the "Most Outstanding Wrestler". Not "Best in Tournament" award. If you believe this then all we have to do is look at the toughest weight class prior to wrestling, the winner of that wt. class will be named most outstanding wrestler. Truth is most of the time there are between 2-5 wrestlers that coaches already know they are going to watch for this award. I'm not in favor of the wrestler who gets the upset winning the award. The state must be proud of their most outstand wrestler. If you were to go to a wrestling meet with teh MOW you should be able to proudly say that is KY's best wrestler. Not taking anything from Spencer I would want him on my team, but if we were picking the state champions to be on my team, he would not be my number 1 pick. I can agree with you about not giving the award to the underdog who gets the upset. But, an upset of this magnitude should be considered. Scott Cooper won the OW after upsetting Luke Metzger in the finals. I am pretty sure that upset factored into it. As stated previously, I do not believe that Spencer is one of the best in the state, but he put together a gutsy state tournament run that involved overtimes, comeback victories, and upending the defending 3 time state champ. There will never be a consensus on the criteria used to determine the MOW, however, maybe two awards should be given as somebody mentioned earlier: a Mr. Wrestling for the best season, and then a tournament OW. In the end, everyone is going to have a bias towards a particular wrestler. No point in trying to persuade others to vote one way or another. Courtney is very deserving, and the best out state has to offer. But for this tournament I would have voted for Spencer still. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 I can agree with you about not giving the award to the underdog who gets the upset. But, an upset of this magnitude should be considered. Scott Cooper won the OW after upsetting Luke Metzger in the finals. I am pretty sure that upset factored into it. As stated previously, I do not believe that Spencer is one of the best in the state, but he put together a gutsy state tournament run that involved overtimes, comeback victories, and upending the defending 3 time state champ. There will never be a consensus on the criteria used to determine the MOW, however, maybe two awards should be given as somebody mentioned earlier: a Mr. Wrestling for the best season, and then a tournament OW. In the end, everyone is going to have a bias towards a particular wrestler. No point in trying to persuade others to vote one way or another. Courtney is very deserving, and the best out state has to offer. But for this tournament I would have voted for Spencer still.The big difference is that Scott Cooper was defending state champ who had already proven himself. "Upsetting" Metzger probably didn't surprise everybody. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluegrassbrawler 2 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 The big difference is that Scott Cooper was defending state champ who had already proven himself. "Upsetting" Metzger probably didn't surprise everybody.Sure surpised me after Metzger beat him 10-0 at state duals that year :roll: Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Sure surpised me after Metzger beat him 10-0 at state duals that year :roll:Roll your eyes all you want, but I'm just saying I bet there were a number of people who would have taken Cooper in that one. By the way, one of the greatest finals matches in Ky wrestling history. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluegrassbrawler 2 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Roll your eyes all you want, but I'm just saying I bet there were a number of people who would have taken Cooper in that one. By the way, one of the greatest finals matches in Ky wrestling history.Oh, I will agree with you on that. It was one of the best finals matches I have ever witnessed... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted March 9, 2008 Ranger you took the words right out of my mouth.I will bet that many coaches had already decided that the winner of that match had a huge advantage of being MOW. I for one was one that believed Cooper could/would win that match. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jimmy 0 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 I saw very little "wrestling" between Sullivan and Spencer. Stalling, fleeing, poor starts, bad form, and a generalized boring match. It reminded me of a basketball game between University of Cincinnati and UK many years ago. UC were the gross underdogs so their strategy was to stand at the half court line and pass the ball and stall. For 38 minutes we saw UC do nothing but stall therefore very few points were scored by either team. UC kept the score close but were in no way as good as UK. Their strategy, keep it close then try to beat UK in the last 2-3 minutes of the game. UC lost. After that game, NCAA changed the rules limiting the offensive team to 45 seconds to score. This was done in order to make the game offensive and more exciting. Spencer's strategy was very similiar. He kept it close by stalling and won it at the end. Great strategy, yes, great wrestling, absolutely not. how does one win the state championship without great wrestling? yes the match was boring and uneventful, but does that give the right to say that it wasnt good wrestling? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ccwrestler^oldschool 10 Report post Posted March 10, 2008 how does one win the state championship without great wrestling? yes the match was boring and uneventful, but does that give the right to say that it wasnt good wrestling?If you were at the state tournement then you saw it twice. In the 112 finals and in the 152 finals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeus 117 Report post Posted March 11, 2008 If you were at the state tournement then you saw it twice. In the 112 finals and in the 152 finals. All hard feelings aside I have to agree with you on this one, especially 152. Thank god I was getting Ethan and Blake ready to wrestle and did not have to watch these matches in their entirety. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gator_roll 0 Report post Posted March 11, 2008 If you were at the state tournement then you saw it twice. In the 112 finals and in the 152 finals. yes they were boring match but still its the fact they made it to the finals of the state tournament and either did what choate or spencer did and win, while during other rounds of the state tourney beating some very good wrestler such as choate beating ashbrook and spencer beating carpenter so yes they had boring matches but they are the best wrestlers in the state Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old140 4 Report post Posted March 11, 2008 All hard feelings aside I have to agree with you on this one, especially 152. Thank god I was getting Ethan and Blake ready to wrestle and did not have to watch these matches in their entirety.All hard feelings aside, Ethan and Blake didn't look that ready on the mat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Danger 0 Report post Posted March 11, 2008 All hard feelings aside, Ethan and Blake didn't look that ready on the mat.Oh snap :-o Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
