Questions in 2008 Kentucky Middle School State

[JCB 2]

I am a parent of one of the Johnson County Middle School Wrestlers and it appears there are some serious questions regarding the Larue County Score and the Middle School State Tournament.  The issue is who is the scorer for Larue County at the 185 lb Weight Class.  If you look at the 185 bracket you will see Larue County qualified 2 wrestlers.  Billy Hardin was the # 2 seed and Cole Hughes the # 3 seed from Region #1.  After the heavy weight match at the state tournament between Newberry from Larue and Johnson from South Oldham the Johnson County Wrestling Coach Bob Horne went to the tournament director (also coach of Larue) and asked him who the scorer was for Larue County at 185.  The tournament director reported Cole Hughes was Larue's scorer and he had made the change before the Region 1 Tournament due to the health of Billy Hardin.  However, after reviewing the Region 1 results, it appears the scorer for Larue at 185 in the regional tournament was Billy Hardin not Cole Hughes as reported.  If this is the case Larue County would lose 6 to 8 team points of the 137.50 total which would put Larue County in second place. 

[DumpTruck 0]

Wow!  This is a huge difference.  If those point differentials hold true then it impacts which team is the state champion.  I am sure that if the scorers were reversed to increase the team score it was by mistake of the Larue County coaches or the tournament officials as this is a clear violation of the scoring rules.  The President should take a good luck at this to correct the error if one exists.  Larue County has always been such gracious hosts and Central Hardin has always been a tremendous location for the tournament, but running the tournament should not give them an advantage.

If JCMS followed correct procedure and an error is found in scorers for Larue County, the error must be corrected to uphold the integrity of the competition in the future.  Middle School wrestling in KY has moved the state forward by leaps, but a failure to enforce rules and procedure could set us back again.  I will be interested to see an official ruling on this one.  Keep us posted

[shakeandbake 0]

I am sure he will keep us posted if he can. Someone keeps deleting his posts in the youth wrestling page. Is this site ran by Larue Co. as well?

[pridewrestler 0]

I think Larude runs all of this...

[shakeandbake 0]

Was that a typo, or a subtle hint?

[pridewrestler 0]

What do you think shakeandbake

[shakeandbake 0]

I have never had any problems with them, but I wouldn't think Mr. 4.0 would make a typo!

[pridewrestler 0]

lol, i didnt use spell check.. english is my weakness

[grappler-of-old 44]

I'll repost what I posted in the Youth wrestlng

WOW?!?!?!?!?!?!

Whis is what amazing.  I have never heard so much belly aching in my life.  The state tourney was held the kids wrestled and the better kids that day won. 

Just one mure reason to not have a team champion.  WHO CARES!!!

Middle school wrestling is for the kids, you don't even represent your school in many cases (club teams).

I can garauntee that no coach would jeperdize thier coaching career just to win a team title.  They just are not that important. 

This crazy crying about people cheating, unfairness, and calling people liars sounds more and more like those cheerleader mothers who go out and sabatoge other cheerleaders so their daughters make the squad.

Its over deal with the win or loss and continue with your lives.  If this is the most important thing in your life then I feel sorry for those individuals.  Wrestling is a sport for our entertainment and enjoyment.  Lets try and keep it that way. 

Oh by the way:  Why do I not have an option for spell check any more?? I need it desperately. 

[kdsmith27 14]

I am sure he will keep us posted if he can. Someone keeps deleting his posts in the youth wrestling page. Is this site ran by Larue Co. as well?

No, but alligations and slander of others is not part of this forum!!!! if you have a problem with a person or school, go to the source.

[Josh_Claywell 52]

I am a parent of one of the Johnson County Middle School Wrestlers and it appears there are some serious questions regarding the Larue County Score and the Middle School State Tournament.  The issue is who is the scorer for Larue County at the 185 lb Weight Class.  If you look at the 185 bracket you will see Larue County qualified 2 wrestlers.  Billy Hardin was the # 2 seed and Cole Hughes the # 3 seed from Region #1.  After the heavy weight match at the state tournament between Newberry from Larue and Johnson from South Oldham the Johnson County Wrestling Coach Bob Horne went to the tournament director (also coach of Larue) and asked him who the scorer was for Larue County at 185.  The tournament director reported Cole Hughes was Larue's scorer and he had made the change before the Region 1 Tournament due to the health of Billy Hardin.  However, after reviewing the Region 1 results, it appears the scorer for Larue at 185 in the regional tournament was Billy Hardin not Cole Hughes as reported.  If this is the case Larue County would lose 6 to 8 team points of the 137.50 total which would put Larue County in second place. 

Now I have a question for you:

Why in the crap would you wait so dang long to bring this up? If you knew something was wrong, you should have said something to someone else a week ago.

[ubtappin 1]

I am sure he will keep us posted if he can. Someone keeps deleting his posts in the youth wrestling page. Is this site ran by Larue Co. as well?

:-D  That's funny, I don't care who ya are.

[VisionQuest 64]

Now I have a question for you:

Why in the crap would you wait so dang long to bring this up? If you knew something was wrong, you should have said something to someone else a week ago.

It was brought up to the tournament director at the state tournament.

[Josh_Claywell 52]

It was brought up to the tournament director at the state tournament.

If they did nothing, then I'm afraid you are SOL.

[overweight 0]

I think Larude runs all of this...

You are everywhere!

[JCB 2]

Jay, nor do I like to post or hide behind screen names.  I am J. C. Blanton the father of Geordon 70 lb. for Johnson County Middle School.  I feel certain you knew that.  In the past, I have had several conversations with you and fill you are a fair and honorable man who wants to promote middle school wrestling in the state.  That

[Josh_Claywell 52]

If the scorer was changed prior to State, there's no issue and LaRue County is the champion outright.

If the scorer was changed during State, as you claim, then that's just a whole different issue the governing body should look into.

[JCB 2]

I still think there is an issue but a much smaller one. 

1.  I do not think teams have been allowed to switch scorers in previous tournament. (KSWA has made it clear there are no by-laws addressing switching scorers between region and state.)

2.  Competitive advantage is given to the team who can look at the state bracket and then switch scorers. 

3. Shouldn

[Ranger123 43]

I still think there is an issue but a much smaller one. 

1.  I do not think teams have been allowed to switch scorers in previous tournament. (KSWA has made it clear there are no by-laws addressing switching scorers between region and state.)

2.  Competitive advantage is given to the team who can look at the state bracket and then switch scorers. 

3. Shouldn

[JCB 2]

It would be very easy to prove blatant dishonesty.  All that would need to be done is to have the scoring sheet for the first round.  Hardin won his first round and Hughes lost and the score that was anounced for Larue after the first round was 24.5 and could only have happened if Hardin was the scorer. 

[pioneer_pride 1]

It would be very easy to prove blatant dishonesty.  All that would need to be done is to have the scoring sheet for the first round.  Hardin won his first round and Hughes lost and the score that was anounced for Larue after the first round was 24.5 and could only have happened if Hardin was the scorer. 

If there was a scoring sheet from the first round that showed 24.5, don't you think the m.s. president would have already overturned the score??  Plus....assuming Larue did what you said, do you think they will just turn over a scoring sheet?  Don't you think that scoring sheet is somewhere in a landfill in Hardin County?

Here is the he said/she said part.  I was not at m.s. state, but of the 2 people I spoke to about this, they both do not recall hearing the team scores announced until like after the 2nd round.  They are convinced.  However, you are convinced it was.  I'm not saying you didn't hear it, or that it wasn't announced.  But think about what you are asking the m.s. president to do - overturn the final scoring based on some people remembering what score was announced after the first round.  Even if it was announced, if you asked 100 people what score was announced you'd probably get 50 different answers.  There is no official rule to handle this situation, it's a shame there isn't but the league is what everyone makes it.....good or bad.  You may very well be 100% right about what happened.  But can the president overturn the score based on your theory?  No, just on the facts and what he can absolutely prove.  It wouldn't be fair to Larue either to just overturn the score without concrete evidence.  An official scoring sheet would be great.  But if it doesn't exist....what can you do?  What would you do in the president's shoes?

Believe me, everyone on this website knows you feel like your team got cheated.  The president made his decision.  Please let it go.  You have definitely made a good point that this is a questionable situation and needs to be addressed in the future.  I feel bad for your team, but also Larue for being put in the position where they could so easily be called cheats.  Eddie's ran the tournament for like 4+ years and has done an outstanding job.  Every year a kid on his team gets a good draw at state, someone gets suspicous.  He can't win.  I've known him for quite a few years, and he's a good guy as are almost all if not all the m.s. coaches throughout the state.  You are essentially calling a highly respected member of the m.s. coaching association a cheater.  Not many people are going to take your side on this.  Sorry, but that's just the truth.

[Ranger123 43]

It would be very easy to prove blatant dishonesty.  All that would need to be done is to have the scoring sheet for the first round.  Hardin won his first round and Hughes lost and the score that was anounced for Larue after the first round was 24.5 and could only have happened if Hardin was the scorer. 

Not necessarily.  First, you have to get the scoring sheet.  Second, all that proves is that the scorer changed between region and state.  And from what I am hearing and been told, by well respected coaches who have been part of this process for years, there is not a bylaw that addresses this.  I know there was a discussion between the coaches, but I don't think that conversation can be the deciding factor.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

This entire topic is disgusting. Get a life JCB. Let is rest, your kangaroo court is over. You have successfully smeared a respected coach, an excellent high school wrestling program, called to question the integrity of the middle school president. As a parent, you have demonstrated to all of the children/adolescent readers how lobbing slanderous comments in a public forum makes everyone look bad, there are no winners here. Remember, if you wrestle in a pile of crap, "everyone" smells like crap afterwards.  You should have handled this behind the scences rather than in front of all the readers. Your only form of justice was to deface the characters of individuals.  If you actually thought you could alter the final decision by this tactic, you are naive.  Personally, I find your behavior repulsive and immature. Let it rest, your scorched earth policy was successful. By the way, it didn't change the champion, did it?

[Broke Back Wrestler 0]

I know this isn't the thread but this is the primary reason why we could never have a seeded state tournament.  No matter what happens people will whine and cry about injustices they feel were the reasons why they didn't win.  Larue County and its coaches have my sympathy.  Winning a state championship and then having it tarnished by accusations of cheating.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I know this isn't the thread but this is the primary reason why we could never have a seeded state tournament.  No matter what happens people will whine and cry about injustices they feel were the reasons why they didn't win.  Larue County and its coaches have my sympathy.  Winning a state championship and then having it tarnished by accusations of cheating.

I know this isn't the thread either, but there was another thread about screen names...so i gotta ask you....what's with "Broke Back Wrestler"?  Please say the name comes from a back injury.