kentucky needs to step it up

[Pinned 0]

Tennessee....really?

yeah tennessee

[raidercoach 51]

I don't think that any kid is packing on any weight. I think that the weight is not true from the beginning. I think we as coaches are putting these kids out on the mat to compete and to learn the sport of wrestling and to be fair and honest. If you have a kid that weighs 55 pounds but you say he weighs 53 that's not fair to either kid or the sport. If the kid weighs 55 to 60 pounds and you slate him in at a lower weight and he crushes the kids in that bracket what has he learned NOTHING. It also takes away from the kids that got crushed. I hate to challenge a weight but Sunday I will challenge a kids weight because I know he weighs more then what he has been slated in at..

You absolutely must challenge a kid if you are confident he is over weight. We need to expose the "cheaters". Our region weighs in as a region. It's a legit weigh in, granted it is over a week before state so I'm sure there is some fluctuation, but there is no cheating.

yeah tennessee

Tennessee is far from the top echelon of wrestling. I doubt many believe they are much better than Kentucky if at all.

[Ranger123 43]

We will be checking the medalists as they wait in line on Sunday. I agree that it is not the kids that are cheating but the coaches submitting the weights/rosters. And if there are issues my guess is there will be consistent issues for certain teams/clubs. And we need to expose them and implement processes to address this in the future. And maybe we will find that in general everything is fine and weights are okay.

[Pinned 0]

Ok so a kid places 1st he beat everyone he was up against what will happen if he is over the weight bracket. Can we challenge before the match ever takes place.

[raidercoach 51]

Ok so a kid places 1st he beat everyone he was up against what will happen if he is over the weight bracket. Can we challenge before the match ever takes place.

Pinned,

I don't know you or who you are suspecting, but if you have evidence of a kid or kids that you feel are overweight, I suggest you PM Mlee or Ranger and I'm sure they can ask that kid's coach for a challenge before wrestling begins.

[raidercoach 51]

We will be checking the medalists as they wait in line on Sunday. I agree that it is not the kids that are cheating but the coaches submitting the weights/rosters. And if there are issues my guess is there will be consistent issues for certain teams/clubs. And we need to expose them and implement processes to address this in the future. And maybe we will find that in general everything is fine and weights are okay.

This is great Ranger....I'm going to pull up a chair and grab some popcorn to watch this. I sure hope coaches read this board and are aware of this, otherwise there could be some fireworks at the podium.

[Chris Duke 284]

For all of you who want qualifying tournaments, have you thought about the fact that if you do that you are virtually eliminating the possibility of having the tournament at Alltech? In my opinion, having it there the day after the high school tournament is priceless and is about the only thing that makes this tournament special. Winning a youth state tournament in Kentucky (or any state for that matter) is not and will never be prestigious. Quit acting like it should be set up like middle or high school! Some of these kids are 6 years old. Make it cool and fun and they'll keep coming back and our state will continue to grow at the youth level.

 

 

I found this from AAU Nationals 16 man brackets with set weights you will have over 1000 kids.  I'm not sure what the numbers are just thinking they can't be much higher than this.

 

TOTS: (BORN AFTER 2007) 

35, 40, 45, 50, 55, HWT

BANTAM (BORN 2005-06)   

40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 90, HWT

MIDGET (BORN 2003-04)     

50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 103, 112, 120, 130, HWT   

NOVICE: (BORN 2001-02)

60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 112, 120, 130, 140, HWT

MIDDLE SCHOOL: (BORN IN 1998, 1999, 2000)

70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 140, 150, 160, 180, HWT

[raidercoach 51]

I found this from AAU Nationals 16 man brackets with set weights you will have over 1000 kids. I'm not sure what the numbers are just thinking they can't be much higher than this.

TOTS: (BORN AFTER 2007)

35, 40, 45, 50, 55, HWT

BANTAM (BORN 2005-06)

40, 45, 50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 90, HWT

MIDGET (BORN 2003-04)

50, 55, 60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 103, 112, 120, 130, HWT

NOVICE: (BORN 2001-02)

60, 65, 70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 112, 120, 130, 140, HWT

MIDDLE SCHOOL: (BORN IN 1998, 1999, 2000)

70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 140, 150, 160, 180, HWT

We ran the numbers using these weight classes with the kids we had last year and the big problem you have is you would HAVE to have a qualifying tournament. Which is fine if you want to have the state tournament in a middle school gym.

[Chris Duke 284]

Is it an option to hold Middle School the same day as youth?  As much as I like my boy wrestling Middle School this would limit youth at the Middle School level.  Alltech holds 10-12 mats and it brings the whole state to one site in one weekend.  

 

MIDDLE SCHOOL: (BORN IN 1998, 1999, 2000)

70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 140, 150, 160, 180, HWT

[raidercoach 51]

Is it an option to hold Middle School the same day as youth? As much as I like my boy wrestling Middle School this would limit youth at the Middle School level. Alltech holds 10-12 mats and it brings the whole state to one site in one weekend.

MIDDLE SCHOOL: (BORN IN 1998, 1999, 2000)

70, 75, 80, 85, 90, 95, 100, 105, 110, 115, 120, 125, 130, 140, 150, 160, 180, HWT

I believe we need to keep youth separate. The goal of youth wrestling should be to introduce the sport to kids and families and make them want to come back. If we try to make it as intense and pressure-packed as middle and high school, I think we'd hurt ourselves. If you have some stud youth kids and want more competition you can easily get it by wrestling up at middle, going to camps, etc. We have to keep in mind that we have very different goals as an association at the youth level compared to middle. So combining the two could have bad consequences. I know some people want our youth tournament to be like Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, but keep in mind we have some very young kids out there.

[Chris Duke 284]

I I know some people want our youth tournament to be like Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome, but keep in mind we have some very young kids out there.

 

I'm not looking for Mad Max.  I just believe If you are going to call it Youth State it should be just that.  Our product is watered down.

[Pinned 0]

I agree with Chris Duke on this kids have the option to compete or not to compete. This is my sons first year of competing I held him out last year from competing because I didn't want to crush his spirit. We have to leave it to the parents on this if they think the child should be competing then they should do just that. I think more then any thing its about the money that this brings in. Wrestling is a intense sport! Two kids on the mat one weighs 50 pounds the other 60 that's a huge advantage it should and needs to be fair bottom line. Some of these kids that really not that good but have 2 or 3 " 1st place state finishes" well wonder why maybe its because the kid out ways everyone in his/her bracket. Its bull and it need to be looked at in the perfect world everyone would be honest but we are not in a perfect world. This will hurt the sport more then anything. wrestling is growing at a rapid pace we need to step up our game.

[Keepyourheadup 10]

Doesn't every region wiegh in together like we do for state? Everyone in our region went to CC to wiegh in together so there is no cheating. Both my boys have consistantly wieghed with in 5 pounds each week. One weighed between stayed between 76 to 79 and the other 82 to 84. I do agree that weighing in 2 weeks before state is a little early. But I don't have an answer. I also know there is some people that bust their butts for this sport and they hear a lot of complaining. Id like to thank them for the work that they put in.

[sbfraz 8]

Some regions are very spread out so they don't weigh in together. I know some schools have to travel about 2 hours to their regional so it gets difficult.

[raidercoach 51]

I agree with Chris Duke on this kids have the option to compete or not to compete. This is my sons first year of competing I held him out last year from competing because I didn't want to crush his spirit. We have to leave it to the parents on this if they think the child should be competing then they should do just that. I think more then any thing its about the money that this brings in. Wrestling is a intense sport! Two kids on the mat one weighs 50 pounds the other 60 that's a huge advantage it should and needs to be fair bottom line. Some of these kids that really not that good but have 2 or 3 " 1st place state finishes" well wonder why maybe its because the kid out ways everyone in his/her bracket. Its bull and it need to be looked at in the perfect world everyone would be honest but we are not in a perfect world. This will hurt the sport more then anything. wrestling is growing at a rapid pace we need to step up our game.

You clearly are focusing in on one kid that you know around your kids weight. Like was said earlier, you can challenge their weight at the tournament and they will be weighed if they medal.

[raidercoach 51]

I'm not looking for Mad Max. I just believe If you are going to call it Youth State it should be just that. Our product is watered down.

Our high school state is watered down. You are not going to get elite competition in Kentucky at ANY level. If you want it, it's not hard to find it. You live in NKY, as you already know, if you cross the river you can get all the competition you want.

[MLee 68]

How exactly are brackets established? Seems like no rhyme or reason in them. There are kids with 3 (5%) pounds difference in same bracket. Why not go straight down weights??

The brackets are done using a software designed by a youth coach from Ohio.  Once all rosters are entered, the software sorts in 8 man brackets by age group and weight starting from smallest to largest and not exceeding 10% weight spread.  The lack of "ryhme or reason" is contributed to a function of separating kids from the same club.  For instance, if a team had multiple kids the same age and weight, the software will separate if and only if the bracket is w/in the 10% rule and age group.  This will create an overlap in weight classes.  Personally, I love this function.  Who wants to go to "state" and watch a bracket of 5 kids from the same team?  2 years ago (before this upgrade to the software was added) there were 3 brackets where all 8 kids were from the same team! 

[Nkawtg 137]

We will be checking the medalists as they wait in line on Sunday. I agree that it is not the kids that are cheating but the coaches submitting the weights/rosters. And if there are issues my guess is there will be consistent issues for certain teams/clubs. And we need to expose them and implement processes to address this in the future. And maybe we will find that in general everything is fine and weights are okay.

You'd better have a good reason if you try to weighin Youth region 2 kids. We all battled rush hour to get to St X to do weigh ins and birth certificate checks. Evidently we were the only ones doing this. Why aren't the other regions?

[raidercoach 51]

You'd better have a good reason if you try to weighin Youth region 2 kids. We all battled rush hour to get to St X to do weigh ins and birth certificate checks. Evidently we were the only ones doing this. Why aren't the other regions?

I think the point is to weigh in all the kids that placed. Why would anyone have a problem with this?

[Nkawtg 137]

In my opinion there's a higher likelihood of false ages being given. I've seen one team consistently enter 12 year old, 7th grade girls in the 10 and under divisions.

[Undercoverwildcat24 0]

What is your allowance gonna be? 2lbs or 5%???? The problem is you have no rules in place and now you are gonna make them up as you go. That will be a tough sell. Don't ruin a good thing because someone is mad over a kid. This needs to be addressed but 2 days before is not the time.

[Nkawtg 137]

I think the point is to weigh in all the kids that placed. Why would anyone have a problem with this?

The only problem I have is what are the rules here? If a kid is .5 heavier is that ok? If a kid is 5 lbs heavier what is the impact? We already weighed in once. We told our parents there were no more weighins. Now because Ranger says so we are weighing then in again?

What about birth certificates? EQ mentioned at the Region 2 tournament during the coaches meeting that other regions weren't checking them.

I'm not against the weight checks. Lets do it. Lets also check birth certificates. I just want to know what the rules are here. If the bracket is 110-118 and a kid who was entered at 112 weighs 117 is that OK? If so, how is that any more fair than the 118 lb kid who check in at 123 at the medal ceremony?

[dutch 178]

I think a lot of people have made some great suggestions. I think at last youth meeting they came up with the idea to take all the placers and put together a tournament after the state tournament. That should put to rest who the real state champion is. I went to two youth practices recently and talked to multiple kids. I asked them if they were going to win a title. Most of their faces lit up and the response was "yes". The point is that an 8 year kid is excited to win the tournament. Regardless if the adults are arguing that it is not a true state title. I say let them be kids and be excited to win a title.

As far as weight classes I think this will be addressed at the new season ending tournament. The big problem is the parents cutting little Johnny down from 54 to 50lbs when the kid is 8 years old. That's a problem. I remember doing regional weigh ins a few years ago and a parent told me his 7 year old stayed home from school and ran all day prior to weigh ins. Wow. I thought what is wrong with people.

I can say as a parent and coach I can remember when my son won his first youth title. The excitement for him was indescribable. He ended up winning 3 total and none of the compared to the first. Now that he is in middle school he understands what it takes just to make it to state. The point is that in the moment of his first title he didn't get his medal and say "I'm not the true champion". They have plenty of time to work and battle to make it to state and hopefully win a middle school title or high school title. Let them be kids. I can tell you it gets tougher the older they get. That so called title might be the only one they ever get. Mine is still hoping to get a middle school title. Maybe one day he will. Lol.

Good luck to all the youth kids Sunday. When all the kids climb up on that podium to get their medal look at their faces. Let me know if the kids care they are not the "true state champion"

[IWIN 49]

I think many coaches are hesitant to ask for a weight check because the opposing coach often gets hostile and the hosting team still allows the kid to wrestle. If we are going to say weight checks are an option, then there needs to be a clear definition of what is allowed. Does the kid have to make the weight listed, one pound allowance, 2 pounds? Right now, it's very subjective. We need to have clear cut guidelines if we aren't doing weigh ins.

Can't have clear guidelines without clear weight classes. Not trying to be counter productive, just stating my opinion. Sbfraz, this isn't a post knocking what you said. Its taking what you said, agreeing, then expanding.

[IWIN 49]

Weight classes = weight cutting....this is a broken record. We should do whatever we can to prevent it at youth, regardless of what other states or tournaments do. Telling a youth kid who weighs .1 lbs over a weight that he can't wrestle will guarantee weight cutting and discourage youth kids and families from our sport.Not everyone is a winner. Almost every bracket is a full 8 man bracket. So there will be 7 "losers" in every bracket.For all of you who want qualifying tournaments, have you thought about the fact that if you do that you are virtually eliminating the possibility of having the tournament at Alltech? In my opinion, having it there the day after the high school tournament is priceless and is about the only thing that makes this tournament special. Winning a youth state tournament in Kentucky (or any state for that matter) is not and will never be prestigious. Quit acting like it should be set up like middle or high school! Some of these kids are 6 years old. Make it cool and fun and they'll keep coming back and our state will continue to grow at the youth level.

If we are not trying to set this up like the middle school and high school state tournament, why is it so important to have it Alltech? (I know that the middle school state is held elsewhere) I dislike that set up for high school, so it wouldn't hurt my feelings at all to have the youth tournament somewhere else. Why put the youth on the same level "Alltech" as the high school? I respectfully, disagree. True weight classes, weigh ins, and qualifying tournaments, that's wrestling.