So what is next?

[raidercoach 51]

I think just like everything else, participation at the meetings and voting will increase as the association grows. In the past, many people never felt compelled to attend because no drastic changes were ever proposed, at least at youth. We had things going good, there wasn't a need to change anything. Now all of a sudden, everyone wants to make significant changes so, I at least, feel its important to be there. It's always better to be there in person to communicate not just your vote, but also "why". We found that out at the last meeting regarding doing away with the team scores. Some of the coaches who voted to do away with team scores realized that teams did use the state team score as motivation to recruit and drive numbers to the state tournament. I think had everyone heard that from the other coaches' mouths, no way that vote would have been approved. Having said that, emailing your vote in should still be an option.

[JCB 2]

When the last time a meeting was held in the West, East or South East KY? Hold a meeting in Wayne County and see how many people from NKY or Louisville attend.

 

Put the internet to use and when you do not get a response try using the good old reliable phone. Each Region has a respective let him make the calls.

 

However, for this to work the association would need to have a good networking system in place. Currently I feel the elementary association has disenfranchised many (MOST VOTERS from West, East and Southeast KY) voters.  

[kdsmith27 14]

While I respect the people that attend the meetings, I don't think just because a handful of people show up to a meeting they should have the right to make significant changes to the mysteriously missing youth by-laws. What's the point of having by-laws if we can't easily access them to guide our decisions and if they can be changed so easily?

 

Found the by-laws, i'll keep searching for a more recent one

youth_wrestling_bylaws_2008-2009.pdf

[MLee 68]

Found the by-laws, i'll keep searching for a more recent one

Thank you sir.

[Ranger123 43]

Good job Keith.

The middle school association has hosted meetings in each region over the last couple years and it did not affect participation. Only resulted in the board doing a lot more driving. There is a fine line between participation and babysitting there jcb. It should not take a personal phone call to get coaches to participate.

[PARVUSNUMERO 0]

Have you considered having a post-season tournament on Sat. and hold the meeting Fri. night. or Sunday after the tournament.  I have to drive 3 1/2 hrs for a meeting that might take 2hrs. 

[raidercoach 51]

Found the by-laws, i'll keep searching for a more recent one

Thanks Coach!

[JCB 2]

Good job Keith.

The middle school association has hosted meetings in each region over the last couple years and it did not affect participation. Only resulted in the board doing a lot more driving. There is a fine line between participation and babysitting there jcb. It should not take a personal phone call to get coaches to participate.

 

Let me be frank.  The middle school association has done a fine job overall in my assessment. I give it a grand of B+ to A-.    The only concerns I have are related to cost, regarding the AAU cards and hosting events (district) (450.00 dollars).  Requiring the middle teams to have a 2^nd, secondary insurance is close to the definition of insanity. (Extreme foolishness or an act that demonstrates such foolishness)  District 8 this year had about 80 wrestlers. You tell me how does a school make a profit with that kind of number with the cost of the event and officials?   Bottom line this is a rural / urban issues with the rural being somewhat disenfranchised. 

 

On the subject of making personal phone call I agree with youth that is should not take a personal phone call to get participation.  However, I do believe participation could be greatly increase by the use of the internet and affect network system.  If any association is not getting the feedback it needs I would thing the place to begin would be to verify the network system. Here is where I think personal phone calls need to be made to update the network. 

 

However, the elementary association I feel had been use for individual gain (team benefit) and has may concerns.  That was the direction of my comments. 

 

I do want to thank you for the job you did at the MS State Tournament and with all the hard work you put in to the ranking. “ I would bet you make personal calls to get that information.”  Just have some fun. Thanks

[Ranger123 43]

Ha ha. Not many calls in the recent past. Actually don't even get as many emails anymore.

$450 included all of the awards and took the responsibility and work off the host. Believe me it didn't make life any easier on board members as we drove trophies and medals around the state. This also allowed us to bring consistency to all of the awards across our post season events and provide every qualifying kid a top notch award.

I can't speak for every host; I'm sure there are differences everywhere around who gets what but here is a simple breakdown off the top of my head. $450 host fee, 3 officials for $500. Any other cost should be minimal if any. At $10 per kid entry fee you will cover most of your costs even with only 80 kids. So gate and concessions generates profit. Will it be huge? Maybe not in the smaller district/region but you should make something.

Rural western ky is growing like crazy in ms. Huge numbers and new teams. Lexington as well.

Not sure what you mean by aau and 2nd secondary insurance. We use USA wrestling and that is it. Tournaments do need to be sanctioned but that is covered for the post season.

[Nkawtg 137]

The bylaws are and have been on the kyswa.org website. At the top click on "Forms/Notes" and you will see them on the page that opens.

That's where my 5 match rule rants came from .

[Ranger123 43]

The bylaws are and have been on the kyswa.org website. At the top click on "Forms/Notes" and you will see them on the page that opens.

That's where my 5 match rule rants came from .

The "missing" bylaws they are referring to are youth.

[raidercoach 51]

The bylaws are and have been on the kyswa.org website. At the top click on "Forms/Notes" and you will see them on the page that opens.

That's where my 5 match rule rants came from .

 

Those are for middle school....the one's we were after are for youth.   

[DamonMBarnes 13]

Why can't you have team scores and create divisions? Seems like it would solve both problems.

Go back x amount of years and look at how many kids each team brought. Sort from greatest amount of kids to least (on average). Divide that in half. Anyone who falls below the mark is in small team. Anyone above is in big team. Re-evaluate the numbers on a continual basis.

[JCB 2]

If you want to have team scores you need to only score 9-10 & 11 & 12 groups and set an X number of weight classes. Take the data (number of wrestlers) you have divide by 16(32) will get you the number of brackets. Use the 10% & 2 years to group the brackets. Have the younger age groups be exhibition.

[sbfraz 8]

You could keep team scores like some college tourneys. You enter as many as you want but select the 12 ( or whatever number is determined bu the association) that you expect to score the highest before the tourney begins. Then only those points are used to calculate team scores.

[stanmms 4]

Let me be frank.  The middle school association has done a fine job overall in my assessment. I give it a grand of B+ to A-.    The only concerns I have are related to cost, regarding the AAU cards and hosting events (district) (450.00 dollars).  Requiring the middle teams to have a 2^nd, secondary insurance is close to the definition of insanity. (Extreme foolishness or an act that demonstrates such foolishness)  District 8 this year had about 80 wrestlers. You tell me how does a school make a profit with that kind of number with the cost of the event and officials?   Bottom line this is a rural / urban issues with the rural being somewhat disenfranchised. 

 

On the subject of making personal phone call I agree with youth that is should not take a personal phone call to get participation.  However, I do believe participation could be greatly increase by the use of the internet and affect network system.  If any association is not getting the feedback it needs I would thing the place to begin would be to verify the network system. Here is where I think personal phone calls need to be made to update the network. 

 

However, the elementary association I feel had been use for individual gain (team benefit) and has may concerns.  That was the direction of my comments. 

 

I do want to thank you for the job you did at the MS State Tournament and with all the hard work you put in to the ranking. “ I would bet you make personal calls to get that information.”  Just have some fun. Thanks

When the Youth Assoc. was started I emailed every High School coach in the state asking for the names and #'s of their youth coach.  NOT ONE coach returned an email. 

 

Before the 1st Youth state tourney I had gathered a list of youth coaches from every person I could find.  Those that I had not heard from I personally called to make sure they had the info needed to sign up.  I recall only talking to 2 or 3 of all the coaches I called. 

 

Ranger is right, we shouldn't have to spend all our spare hours informing the uninformed when they have every available resource they need at their disposal.

[JCB 2]

When the Youth Assoc. was started I emailed every High School coach in the state asking for the names and #'s of their youth coach.  NOT ONE coach returned an email. 

 

Before the 1st Youth state tourney I had gathered a list of youth coaches from every person I could find.  Those that I had not heard from I personally called to make sure they had the info needed to sign up.  I recall only talking to 2 or 3 of all the coaches I called. 

 

Ranger is right, we shouldn't have to spend all our spare hours informing the uninformed when they have every available resource they need at their disposal.

 

Stan,

You & Ranger, and others have identify communication as a major area of concern in the Youth Wrestling Association however, when reasons and options are suggested they are attacked and dismissed. I am personally done with youth wrestling. But I would like to see it grow in such away that benefits high school wrestling through out KY. To do that the association will need more involvement from all areas of the state. I believe the association will need to use all meas necessary to increase involvement. Below are three areas that I feel can and needs to be addressed.

Technology: (internet, conference calls)

Meeting: (spring meeting on Saturday at the high school state tournament,during one of the beaks) (feed then they will come)

Disenfranchisement:

[stanmms 4]

JCB,

 

I am no longer actively involved in Youth but feel like your concerns should be passed along to the current President.  I think your 1st two suggestions definitely need to be explored.  Don't have a clue about the last.

[Ranger123 43]

Stan,

You & Ranger, and others have identify communication as a major area of concern in the Youth Wrestling Association however, when reasons and options are suggested they are attacked and dismissed. I am personally done with youth wrestling. But I would like to see it grow in such away that benefits high school wrestling through out KY. To do that the association will need more involvement from all areas of the state. I believe the association will need to use all meas necessary to increase involvement. Below are three areas that I feel can and needs to be addressed.

Technology: (internet, conference calls)

Meeting: (spring meeting on Saturday at the high school state tournament,during one of the beaks) (feed then they will come)

Disenfranchisement:

Coaches are generally fed very well at KSWA meetings. Doesn't help for attendance. I also don't know that we could squeeze all the necessary business into a break.

We do need to explore ways to use technology although I do not feel it will be as a replacement for meeting attendance/participation.

I'm with stan, not sure what you mean by disenfranchisement.

[Nkawtg 137]

Those are for middle school....the one's we were after are for youth.   

DOH!! My bad.

[bigedcoach 27]

this topic went no where I really wanted to go but , I really only meant for it to be a middle school only discussion but Youth got involved soo. but here are some of my opinions from what comments have been said                            

 

Meetings: As a middle school and high school coach, coaching meetings were not my #1 issue, middle school coaching had 2x the paperwork and 3x the amount of meetings. I understand the need for organization but........ hear is my idea

#1 one general meeting in the fall to go over rule changes policy changes and maybe a coaches clinic

#2 at the district seed meeting , take time to go over improvements and possible changes, elect a district spokesman that goes to the spring meeting to speak on behalf of the district

#3 A late spring KWSA meeting of all district reps that goes over policy and a ballot that is emailed to all coaches to vote on issues or let just the district reps handle a voting proxy for the district

 

Weight Cert.

Since middle school doesntuse or try to afford fat testing this is what I would do

#1 I am a firm believer in a growth allowance and not for cutting weight at the middle school level, I suggest this

#2 Must make scratch weight 3x before Jan 1 so if you are a 70Lber, you must make 70lbs scratch 3x , have a form with opposing coaches and referees sig on each weigh in

#3 if a Kid doesnt make scratch because of injury then the first weigh in after Jan is his weight class , If a kid weighs 71lbs and its his first weigh in of the season then he is a 75lber

#4 After Jan if a kid has had all three weigh ins at the desired scratch weigh, he gets his 2lb allowance ex. your 70lber get to weigh 72lbs. If he doesnt get his 3 weigh ins then he is a 75lber and gets to weigh up to 77lbs

# If a kid has his first weigh in after Jan 1 he makes 70lbs on his first weign in , he is a 70 lber and get to be 72lbs after that weigh in. This must be his first weigh in of the season. If he doesnt make 70 , he is not eligible to wrestle 70.

 

Cost of tournament hosting

# 1 $450 seems high but I am in agreement of same trophies and awards for all districts and regions especially after what happened in Anderson Co last year.

# 2 As an orgination I would look for ways to lower the cost of this fee with out sacrificing the quality

 

USA Wrestling

#1 USA Wrestling is a great orginization and has come a long way under Keith Smith

#2 I understand the question about why do I need secondary insurance, but its not about protecting your kid or school, its about making sure everyone is covered under 1 umbrella from wrestlers to coaches, to referees and schools and clubs. school insurance doesnt cover competitions vs club teams like River City or Fern Creek. If everyone has USA wrestling insurance then everyone can wrestle everyone. Im about to finish my Rank 1 in athletic adminstation and I have learned so much about liability and insurance and realized you cant have enough.

#3 All officals should have USA officals cards, maybe the KY MS can help with this cost. If you are going to use a hybrid set of rules, then referees need to be covered, remember state sanctioned refs are only NHFS cert and can only go by those rules and your at a liabilityrisk

 

Youth Wrestling.

Except for when I was involved in AAU wrestling I was never involved with elementary school wrestling so my opinions might just be moot. I love the fact thhough that there is soo many kids getting involved

 

#1 Have a true state championship, it seems like the way you do it now, everyone gets to wrestle and there is a ton of championships, have a region then qualify an ex amount of wrestlers for state

#2 Have age brackets like 8/9 10/11 12/13 or grades k-1, 2/3 4/5, I prefer grades because it is the natural progression of scholastic progress. and if a kid is age eligible to wrestle weather he is a state champ or a beginner. You probably weed out the MS wrestlers because they would probably miss the regional tourney because of their MS season.

#3 I like the way you do weight classes now but a standard weigh class set with rules and educated coaches isnt a bad thing. Maybe even a Drs permission slip to be  eligible to wrestle in a weight class might not be a bad idea

 

opinions are like noses, everyone has one and breathes through it, I hope you enjoyed mine and see the positives.

[2yankees3 2]

I like the idea of having tournaments in each region that are open to everyone.  We have less than 50 kids in the southern part of the state that are willing to wrestle in a regional.   We wrestle in TN just about every saturday because of the distance and the fact that the best toutnaments here are on sundays in KY.  Its hard to get the parents to travel on sunday.  In TN each of the regions host a tournament that is open to everyone and the turnout is great.  The competition is great.  Such tournaments could be used as qualifiers for the state. Kids in the south have to pay an entry fee and may not wrestle a match in a regional.  Its tough here to get numbers because of travel {this cant be helped}, Football coaches are afraid to share their athletes, and your average parent doesnt realize how hard and demanding this sport is.  It is the hardest sport the kids will play.  We tell our parents that it is the most demanding sport there is and the its not for everyone.  The kids, coaches, and parents that stay in it deserve a lot of credit. 

[Nkawtg 137]

I just mapquested the distance to Johnson county--it's over 200 miles from where I live near Louisville. My point is that geography is a serious impediment in our state. Mucho respect to the rural schools and their dedication to the sport.

[KARL GOTCH 3]

Excuse me if this post is missed placed but i was reading early in the post where middle school could possibly overtake clubteams and it all be middle school. I ould have to say ask Moore how they feel about middle school. I know of at least two of their wrestlers where able to place at state and never had that oppurtunity.

[plantmanky1 58]

this topic went no where I really wanted to go but , I really only meant for it to be a middle school only discussion but Youth got involved soo. but here are some of my opinions from what comments have been said                            

 

Meetings: As a middle school and high school coach, coaching meetings were not my #1 issue, middle school coaching had 2x the paperwork and 3x the amount of meetings. I understand the need for organization but........ hear is my idea

#1 one general meeting in the fall to go over rule changes policy changes and maybe a coaches clinic

#2 at the district seed meeting , take time to go over improvements and possible changes, elect a district spokesman that goes to the spring meeting to speak on behalf of the district

#3 A late spring KWSA meeting of all district reps that goes over policy and a ballot that is emailed to all coaches to vote on issues or let just the district reps handle a voting proxy for the district

 

Weight Cert.

Since middle school doesntuse or try to afford fat testing this is what I would do

#1 I am a firm believer in a growth allowance and not for cutting weight at the middle school level, I suggest this

#2 Must make scratch weight 3x before Jan 1 so if you are a 70Lber, you must make 70lbs scratch 3x , have a form with opposing coaches and referees sig on each weigh in

#3 if a Kid doesnt make scratch because of injury then the first weigh in after Jan is his weight class , If a kid weighs 71lbs and its his first weigh in of the season then he is a 75lber

#4 After Jan if a kid has had all three weigh ins at the desired scratch weigh, he gets his 2lb allowance ex. your 70lber get to weigh 72lbs. If he doesnt get his 3 weigh ins then he is a 75lber and gets to weigh up to 77lbs

# If a kid has his first weigh in after Jan 1 he makes 70lbs on his first weign in , he is a 70 lber and get to be 72lbs after that weigh in. This must be his first weigh in of the season. If he doesnt make 70 , he is not eligible to wrestle 70.

 

Cost of tournament hosting

# 1 $450 seems high but I am in agreement of same trophies and awards for all districts and regions especially after what happened in Anderson Co last year.

# 2 As an orgination I would look for ways to lower the cost of this fee with out sacrificing the quality

 

USA Wrestling

#1 USA Wrestling is a great orginization and has come a long way under Keith Smith

#2 I understand the question about why do I need secondary insurance, but its not about protecting your kid or school, its about making sure everyone is covered under 1 umbrella from wrestlers to coaches, to referees and schools and clubs. school insurance doesnt cover competitions vs club teams like River City or Fern Creek. If everyone has USA wrestling insurance then everyone can wrestle everyone. Im about to finish my Rank 1 in athletic adminstation and I have learned so much about liability and insurance and realized you cant have enough.

#3 All officals should have USA officals cards, maybe the KY MS can help with this cost. If you are going to use a hybrid set of rules, then referees need to be covered, remember state sanctioned refs are only NHFS cert and can only go by those rules and your at a liabilityrisk

 

Youth Wrestling.

Except for when I was involved in AAU wrestling I was never involved with elementary school wrestling so my opinions might just be moot. I love the fact thhough that there is soo many kids getting involved

 

#1 Have a true state championship, it seems like the way you do it now, everyone gets to wrestle and there is a ton of championships, have a region then qualify an ex amount of wrestlers for state

#2 Have age brackets like 8/9 10/11 12/13 or grades k-1, 2/3 4/5, I prefer grades because it is the natural progression of scholastic progress. and if a kid is age eligible to wrestle weather he is a state champ or a beginner. You probably weed out the MS wrestlers because they would probably miss the regional tourney because of their MS season.

#3 I like the way you do weight classes now but a standard weigh class set with rules and educated coaches isnt a bad thing. Maybe even a Drs permission slip to be  eligible to wrestle in a weight class might not be a bad idea

 

opinions are like noses, everyone has one and breathes through it, I hope you enjoyed mine and see the positives.

 

 

Bigedcoach who and how do you propose to track all that paperwork for weight certifications?