New state location idea.

[crazyotto 381]

What was the attendance at last years state? What is capacity of Alltech? This will drive the venue options as well as location. Also, I can see where this could be pared down to a two stage regional->state event rather than three stages. Seeding is a must. It makes no sense to not seed. Choose a weight class, any class. There are usually three or four boys that are ahead of the pack. Now, there is a distinct possibility that #1 meets #2 in first rd and then #3 in 2nd round. Now you have put two of the top three in the conso bracket through benign neglect. Neither has a shot at making finals, or even semis. not only are the top guys knocked down but this produces a very anticlimactic semis and finals. Every inseason tournament worth its weigh is seeded. We see it from little league up to the pros in every sport.

[grappler-of-old 44]

1 and 2 could not meet in the 1st round or second round unless one of them did not win thier region. (even if you seed, If you don't win your region then you don't get seeded)

It is possible that that the 1 and 2 could meet in the quarters and then the semi's.

And as I have stated. It all comes down to bias as to who is better than who. Even on here there has been some disagreement on who is better. Who would seed it? What person has seen all the kids wrestle to determine who is best.

example. at 145 there is dispute as to who is on top? Lampe, Hamilton, Clay, Polley, imagine if Cooper dropped (I would use Meyers but then Hamilton would not be there) I'm certain there would not be a majority of people to decide who is ranked 1-4.

To me good wrestling is good wrestling I don't care if it is in the quarters, semi's or finals. I personally believe the quarters and semi's are usually better because it's do or die and there is no holding back in those rounds. I've seen many wrestlers hold back in the finals just to hold onto a lead. (I know it's smart wrestling, but it's not exciting wrestling).

[grappler-of-old 44]

. We see it from little league up to the pros in every sport.

Not true: If the best two or three teams in MLB are in the National league they won't meet in the world series.

Same goes for NFL and i believe NBA.

[Bearcats Coach 94]

I'm still not sure about the ALL TECH arena. Maybe it will grow on me.

A few things I think need to be addressed are:

For one, get a better/big score board for the Finals. That small 4 side score clock just doesn't cut it for a State Finals match, jmo.

Also the lighting was terrible for the Finals. I like the idea of a spot light just for the finals match. A bright one at that!!! LOL.

Awards/Podium. I think its ridiculous that parents (at least parents) can't enter the main floor to take pictures of their kids who have placed and getting their medal on the podium.

I like the idea of raising the Mat off the floor for the finals. That would be pretty cool. I also like the idea of letting all the wrestlers that are in the finals having them to be seated close to the mat to watch the finals.

Last, I think KY Wrestling has come along way. I'm proud to have my boys wrestling in this great state. But I think KHSAA could spend the money and buy a MAT for the finals (just the finals) that has the KHSAA logo on it and have it state "Kentucky High School State Wrestling Championships".

Ohio has mats like this and it's pretty cool.

Just my 2 cents on this topic.

[crazyotto 381]

To me good wrestling is good wrestling I don't care if it is in the quarters, semi's or finals. I personally believe the quarters and semi's are usually better because it's do or die and there is no holding back in those rounds. I've seen many wrestlers hold back in the finals just to hold onto a lead. (I know it's smart wrestling, but it's not exciting wrestling).

Heck yes. The best wrestling is generally qtrs and semis. We agree on something!!! but ya still gotta seed

[crazyotto 381]

1 and 2 could not meet in the 1st round or second round unless one of them did not win thier region. (even if you seed, If you don't win your region then you don't get seeded) In the KY unseeded tournament this very well could happen

It is possible that that the 1 and 2 could meet in the quarters and then the semi's.

And as I have stated. It all comes down to bias as to who is better than who. Even on here there has been some disagreement on who is better. Who would seed it? What person has seen all the kids wrestle to determine who is best. Seeding done by placement at regional tournament. No voting, no committee. Trust me, it works.

example. at 145 there is dispute as to who is on top? Lampe, Hamilton, Clay, Polley, imagine if Cooper dropped (I would use Meyers but then Hamilton would not be there) I'm certain there would not be a majority of people to decide who is ranked 1-4. My point exactly. These guys should be seeded, and by winning/placing high at a regional event they would be. Do you really want these guys meeting up in first two rounds at state?

To me good wrestling is good wrestling I don't care if it is in the quarters, semi's or finals. I personally believe the quarters and semi's are usually better because it's do or die and there is no holding back in those rounds. I've seen many wrestlers hold back in the finals just to hold onto a lead. (I know it's smart wrestling, but it's not exciting wrestling).

[grappler-of-old 44]

Otto you must not know how the ky state works.

The first placers in each region will wrestle a 4th placer from another region.

Example. if the higher placers win.

First round

1 V 4

2 v 3

2 v 3

1 v 4

Second round

1 V 2

1 V 2

Third round (Quarters)

1 V 1.

There is no way that 2 regional winners could meet before the Quarter finals.

The seeding that everyone in KY is talking about is seeding the regional winners (Which there are 8 regions)

[crazyotto 381]

Otto you must not know how the ky state works.

The first placers in each region will wrestle a 4th placer from another region.

Example. if the higher placers win.

First round

1 V 4

2 v 3

2 v 3

1 v 4

Second round

1 V 2

1 V 2

Third round (Quarters)

1 V 1.

There is no way that 2 regional winners could meet before the Quarter finals.

The seeding that everyone in KY is talking about is seeding the regional winners (Which there are 8 regions)

Damn straight, grappler. I did not know this. I have heard many comment on this "why isn't the state tournament seeded?" So I assumed it was a total blind draw. Thanks for setting me straight on this. Help me out once more.....Is the regional a blind draw? Perhaps that is where the confusion is. And, if it is a blind draw then that should be changed through a seed meeting. Thanks again.

[CCMS_SC 59]

Regional is seeded as well. I think what everyone is compaining about and would like to see is that the top 2-4 number 1's from regionals don't end up on the same side. It is a random draw on which region #1's end up together.

[crazyotto 381]

Thx all for the enlightenment. I can see where there are situations in which the top guys in a class come out of the same region. In many cases the top guys are returning placers. Separation can be given to these returning placers. Criteria can be put in place in which returning placers from the same class a year prior are given 1st order of separation, from a different weight class 2nd order, etc..... Another question if I may. Are all 32 slots seeded? Or is it just the top four?

[IWIN 49]

Problem is, there are 8 Regions, 8 #1's, and 16 kids that quite honestly don't deserve to be there. Ok, I'm gonna take criticism for that last statement, but it's ok. I have big shoulders, I'll carry it. When we had 16 man brackets, the possibility of the State's 2 best kids meeting up before finals, was possible, but not until semis (if they won Regionals like they should have.) Now we have that same possibility in the quarters. Goo, your right, the best kid will win regaurdles, my only point is it is anticlimatic to watch a final with 1 dominate kid and 1 so so kid. Do I know how to seed it????? Nope!! Just think it should be looked in to. Crazyotto, to answer your question, it is seeded in a blind draw fashion. Every region champ will wrestle the 4th place finisher from a different region. Same for the 2's and 3's. 1vs4, 2vs3. Problem comes when u have 4 #1s on the same side of the bracket. Eventually that will create problems. I have seen a previous year STATE FINAL MATCH, happen the next year in the QUARTERS!!!! No way that should have happend, but it did

[HWT 4]

There is always four number 1's one each side of the bracket.

Top bracket

1v4

2v3

1v4

2v3

1v4

2v3

1v4

2v3

Bottom bracket

1v4

2v3

1v4

2v3

1v4

2v3

1v4

2v3

[True170 3]

I could see where seeding would be good but I am not a fan of it. Makes for some good match ups early on as we had with Jarvis vs. Rucsh last year at 160 in the second round.

[Mpire 76]

Top four kids in the state should Definatly be seeded

After that it probably gets hairy

[throwking 16]

I have seen a previous year STATE FINAL MATCH, happen the next year in the QUARTERS!!!! No way that should have happend, but it did

So you are saying we should fix the state tournament with the finals matches being pre-planned? I think this mentality is garbage. The kids who make it to the finals deserve to be in the finals. POINT BLANK PERIOD! IF a kid deserves to be in the finals he will make it happen on his own, not because someone mapped the brackets out so his toughest competition is on the opposite side of the bracket.

[IWIN 49]

So in your opinion a previous years State Champ and State Runner Up meeting in the quarters is desirable? That mentality is garbage. If Kevin and Steph were in the same weight class, would it really be fair to either of those kids, coaches, spectators to wrestle each other anytime before the finals? Arguably the 2 pound for pound best wrestlers in the state wrestling anytime before the finals would be absolutely ridiculous.

[Mpire 76]

Of course the best guys should meet in the finals , and if a kid has earned his rank and seed then HE preplanned his own destiny not anyone fixing a bracket if they earn it they get it and If anyone with a lower seed wants it they have to earn it from them

Beat them take their spot on the ladder ,

Blind draw and no seed is ignorance .

[grappler-of-old 44]

Ahh but using the GMV (not trying to stir the pot) The finals still happened in the Semi's.  The Meyer/Merlini (don't know how to spell his name and don't care because he is from ohio) was the finals match.  Yet this tourney was still seeded. 

 

My point is this:  who decides the seeds?  Who decides who is 1,2,3,and 4.  If there is a fool proof way of determining this then I would be for it, but there is not and therefore I'm not for it.  If you seed then there will be a cry of bias for one kid or team

[Mpire 76]

Well , there are a long list of criteria , but honestly everyone usually knows who is top four splitting them up is not really rocket science .

[crazyotto 381]

Ahh but using the GMV (not trying to stir the pot) The finals still happened in the Semi's.  The Meyer/Merlini (don't know how to spell his name and don't care because he is from ohio) was the finals match.  Yet this tourney was still seeded. 

 

My point is this:  who decides the seeds?  Who decides who is 1,2,3,and 4.  If there is a fool proof way of determining this then I would be for it, but there is not and therefore I'm not for it.  If you seed then there will be a cry of bias for one kid or team

I agree with your point that allowing an outside influence seed the wrestlers is a poor idea. The wrestlers decide this in their regional placement. Outside of that, regional pairings at the state meet should be random. True enough there will be finals type matches in the semis. Quite honestly, it should be that way. Most weight classes should have more than two top flight wrestlers which means semis are a blast to watch! Using GMV example: Cooper, Myers, and Marinelli were all worthy of making the finals (was Kowal here as well or had he already dropped?), as it should be.

Well , there are a long list of criteria , but honestly everyone usually knows who is top four splitting them up is not really rocket science .

Do you think this could be done through separation of returning state champs/placers?

[IWIN 49]

Crazyotto, I agree what your saying about the semis. Typically this is my favorite round at any tournament. I just hate seeing these matches happen in the quarters.

[Mpire 76]

That ,their record against top comp and , simple common knowledge .

[crazyotto 381]

That ,their record against top comp and , simple common knowledge .

Example: wrestler A goes 22-3 on the year with some big wins over top talent along with three losses to top talent vs wrestler B without big name wins and nor losses. Who would be ranked higher? Simple common knowledge says the CC wrestler that is battle tested and battle proven. However, there will be a contingent that do not believe this. Some will cry foul, claim fixed brackets.........And in turn what is happening is the wrestler that did not have the opportunity to see top comp is being penalized.

[Mpire 76]

Your post shifted from a hypothetical wrestler to a CC wrestler ,hahahhahaha

As I said numerous criteria , record,

Rank , previous yr placement ,regional placement , all regional champs would get a good seed the coaches would seed the best I doubt a large group would get it wrong .

[crazyotto 381]

Your post shifted from a hypothetical wrestler to a CC wrestler ,hahahhahaha

As I said numerous criteria , record,

Rank , previous yr placement ,regional placement , all regional champs would get a good seed the coaches would seed the best I doubt a large group would get it wrong .

Ha! Didn't notice that. True though. Imagine Stephen, with one loss getting the 2nd seed to some turd that went undefeated wrestling a crap schedule. Sure, he would hammer the kid when the time came around, but this is why it is tough to use the simple common sense method.