Mark Hall returning to AV

[crazyotto 381]

http://www.twincities.com/sports/ci_21480647/prep-wrestling-2-time-champ-mark-hall-ii

Thought some might find this interesting.

[PinAndWin 64]

yawn

[WHS98 34]

He won a state title in the 7th grade,LOL LOL LOL.wasn't he in the 7th grade when he wrestled in KY ? What some people won't do to break records.Thats right son if you can't win it right out lets find a way to beat the system.So if by chance a mircle happens and he gets beat this year maybe they can hold him back again so they can get them 6 state titles.He is a great great wrestler but the way his dad tries to beat the system makes me sick.WAY TO GO BRADBERRY FOR PUTING A NITCH IN THEIR KY PLANS. LOL LOL LOL

[Mpire 76]

Well mark had a nitch in his plan from the start ,HELLO he wrestled here to wrestle HS comp and he wrestled up when he was doing it ,

Not sure what you mean by beating the system but he sure beats a lot of good wrestlers .

A Dad and his son having fun chasing dreams and doing a better job at it than most , the kid is a legend and only an idiot would bring up some sr beating a jr high kid when he was wrestling up to begin with ,

You could only hope your plans could go half as well .

Not sure anyone cares where he is at now but good luck to him he has worked hard to get where he is and his dad has put more into it than any of his detractors . And the sad thing is he would help all those who blast on him in a heartbeat .

I think it's funny he got so many all worked up ,

Are you hating on the num 1 ranked fresh in the country lol lol a whole LOL

[grappler-of-old 44]

C,mon M. No way you feel that way. Your just trying to stir the pot. You can see he did bend the rules slightly to his advantage. I for one really enjoyed Mark Hall and his dad when he was here in KY and wished he would have stayed. I would still like to see him wrestle but geesh, moving him to another state while living in a trailer next to the school until wrestling season was over. Then retaining him in the 7th grade so he could get 6 titles? C'mon even you have to admit that is not quit right.

[WHS98 34]

Thanks goo,I was hoping I wasn't, the only one who thought that way but if there was one person who would believe it is ok to do things the way his dad did it would be mpire.I also will say Bradberry had a ton of pressure on him wrestling a 7th grader as talented as hall,he was in a no win position.just like wrestling a girl if you win all they say is you beat a girl and if you lose well just get ready to take a lot of ribbing from your friends.no not comparing mark to a girl but 7th grader to a senior.you haven't heard me say a thing about any of the moves into woodford and I won't.they say they moved back here to take care of his parents and I don't anyone would see anything wrong with that.

[Mpire 76]

I do feel that way lol and I have issues that would make me take the opposite stance but I do not ,taking advantage of rules is what dedicated people do and living in a trailer in a different state shows a lot of dedication , tell

The truth mark should have never have wrestled Bradbury because he should have been at a lower weight but did ao to not make waves just to wrestle HS , as for me lol I would have loved to see my kids wrestle in ky as jr high kids talked about it a lot really as do a lot of people in oh . Except we are from ky begin with,sounds lie people are jealous of mark straight up and yes it's a big stress for a se wrestling a seventh grader but c'mon it shouldn't be close a sr wrestling a seventh grader who is bumping up to begin with its a no brainer who should win and a no brainer that it's not much to brag about , all the using the rules has mark ranked number 1 in the country but I think some people forgot its not just using loopholes you have to be able to wrestle or did you forget .

I have been on both sides of this argument bottom line the kid is good probably one of the best ever .

And taking shots at me is funny as I said my kids are noMt seventh graders and are going to hand people their lunch , and they did and will , no I wouldn't put my kid in a trailer and travel the country to wrestle but if I was a single dad I wouldn't hesitate we would have a blast lol

As for the hold back issue look at the top kids and then come back and smart off about me or anyone else , meanwhile I will go dust off my kids state title and that pretty national champ plaque he won this year and that sweet OW trophy ,guess you don't need one from a state when you get one from the nation , Feel me

[Buckeye 20]

Can you spell out just exactly what they did wrong? Was there rules broken? If so what were they?

Was it actually wrong or did it just make you mad?

[WHS98 34]

Mpire you told me not to say anything to you in one of your post well that goes both ways.I make you sick and you make me sick we agree on one thing so let it go.

[Mpire 76]

There are loopholes and rules you use one you break the other , he broke no rules and he brought notoriety to the state and he didn't even take a title away from a native kid so everyone won out in the end , I'm sure he wanted the title but at the same time he got to wrestle High School kids for the comp ,win win ,

What some people won't do to break records ?

It's a sport that's what your supposed to do ,If you can , there are worse things in life to shoot for than breaking records !

When every top coach in the country and state tells top kids they should hold back good kids if the circumstances are good for it why wouldn't you .

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK i give up on this one. We will never see anywhere close to eye to eye on this one. You should never and I repeat never hold a kid back for athletics no matter what. If it is academic OK but not athletics. This is one issue I will never budge on. And will just have to agree to disagree on. Kids are in school for an education not sports. We enjoy sports and it is a privalige not a right to participate in them while in high school/middle school.

No no rules were truely broken, but the spirit of the rules were broken. NO Buckeye it didn't make me mad I had/have no dog in the fight just some personal ethics.

Yes you are correct Mpire: With no disrespect intended he may be the greatest 7th grader I have ever seen wrestle and probably the best I ever will see wrestle. I fully expect to see an Olympic Gold medal around his neck one day. And I'll be telling my grandkids "I saw that kid wrestle in the state finals in Ky as a 7th grader, the last time he didn't win a championship""A 6 time high school state champion and 4 time NCAA D1 champion".

[Mpire 76]

I don't recall saying anything exactly like that who knows i have been on a lot of threads LMAO one things for certain if i did say it you deserved it because you talked smack about me or mine just like you did Mark and his dad ,I guess since you are so much better at this sport and have such high morals we should all bow down and thank the wrestling gods"Austin and the rest " that we have you to be the defender of all that is right and good in the wrestling world .

LMAO and you dont make me sick you make me glad im better at training my kids than dumbasses who know so little about this or any sport .

Well goo a great HS coach maybe the best there is "Jeff Jordan" steered me into holding my son back thinking as many do that it will only help his education as in a free or less expensive college degree but you can take whatever stance you want on the subject its a free world but as im looking over college letters for my SR and looking at a letter my held back Freshman has already gotten from Arizona State ,im glad we made the choice if a kid is ok with it and its all positives there is no harm in it ,i think the only kid who will make fun of Austin for being held back is his brother anyone else he would laugh at or dump on their head and he dumps him on his head already sooo no harm ,looking at all the top kids in the nation many are held back i doubt their college coaches care ,as for being fair My sons already wrestled up in Hs divisions as sixth graders over the summers so all the hater smack about running is funny .

To bad whs98 no one is going to put a nitch in Our Mpire because they cant ,but i bet they do yours LOL LOL LOL .

People are hillarious eventually some would claim training more is unfair ,The biggest injustice in youth sports is never even discussed because it is so rampant and thats the amount of Dad /relative coaches in the sport ,not that all are bad but i have seen so many that are sooooo dirty its sickening rooms focusing on a coaches kid so much its so obvious and everyone chooses to ignore all the bs to not make waves ,it sickens me

[grappler-of-old 44]

Do you truely believe that he would not have gotten a letter if not held back. I don't think you believe that. And you are correct in that it may help with a scholarship or two but that is not helping his education as the famous "jeff Jordan" said. Coaches can spin it any way they want but It only possibly helps in the burdon of obtaining the $$$$ for college not inhancing his education.

[Buckeye 20]

OK i give up on this one. We will never see anywhere close to eye to eye on this one. You should never and I repeat never hold a kid back for athletics no matter what. If it is academic OK but not athletics. This is one issue I will never budge on. And will just have to agree to disagree on. Kids are in school for an education not sports. We enjoy sports and it is a privalige not a right to participate in them while in high school/middle school.

No no rules were truely broken, but the spirit of the rules were broken. NO Buckeye it didn't make me mad I had/have no dog in the fight just some personal ethics.

Yes you are correct Mpire: With no disrespect intended he may be the greatest 7th grader I have ever seen wrestle and probably the best I ever will see wrestle. I fully expect to see an Olympic Gold medal around his neck one day. And I'll be telling my grandkids "I saw that kid wrestle in the state finals in Ky as a 7th grader, the last time he didn't win a championship""A 6 time high school state champion and 4 time NCAA D1 champion".

Wow! Really? The spirit of the rules?

Where does one find that section in the rule book??

[Mpire 76]

Your loosing me GOO if a kid gets a scholarship or gets more offers or a better scholarship then that helps his education and being more mature when the time comes will help as well there are many benifits ,heck I even like the fact it makes the haters mad , you see when they crybaby about it it only makes them look like envious sore losers , and your right Goo he may have because if w were in ky I would have had him ready as a 7th and 8 th grader to make runs at state ,

We discussed it even his 8th grade yr , he wanted the OW at jr high state in OH and was worried about getting comp and hitting big tournaments , he is a bit more comfortable with it now but wanted In Swowca he grew up on the west side of Cincy and Swowca is the big tourny there , he wants to do the other big tourny in oh as we'll but I think he enjoyed the summer tournys he did with team ky and had fun at the BG games , there was actually some very good classes there .

The spirit of the rules ?you lost me as well is that something that someone thinks should be a rule and is not ?or just something someone does that most do not do or think of or attempt that gives them an advantage Or should I say something they do that no one else will do because it's a hassle " like living in a camper in another state so your 7th grader can wrestle HS ?yes not many would do that and most could not .

The funniest thing is holding a kid back only gives him another yr of education sooooo it does help his education it's a no brainer . I look at most of the top football players wrestlers and the rest and many are held back I do not see the harm only the benifits ,heck the mental aspect alone makes their opponents upset LOL now you know how a true winner thinks , did I tell you the story about Austin's first HS match , the kid forfeited , I know for certain they had never seen him wrestle or even seen him period just heresay and board gossip , a forfeit thats the mental edge that's just one aspect of the sport , you are either a winner an all out Winner or your a part timer and winners do what it takes to win , now the team forfeits but bumps a 220 up to wrestle our hvy and wins , as I said they had no real clue only gossip , but they didn't want to risk wrestling a Norse God lmao ,anyway he would have pinned the kid but it was just the point.

I was a 16 yr old sr I had friends who were still in school two yrs after I graduated and were older than me that got full rides to D1 schools and my dad would brag on them and say how good they were and I would say I ran over through and around them but I was a sr they were soph , get the picture . At 18 I was 222 lbs of monster with all 4 state powerlifting records and I was not the most talented but I would have ran over everyone playing ball then and I would have decapitated most of the quarterbacks in the state ,so tell me it won't help your Definatly wrong on this one GOO my boy will get the scholarships I did not and i will laugh at whoever cries about Austin hammering everyone when he is a sr because he hammered everyone from day 1 he was a state champ his first yr wrestling probably didn't even need held back but it will and has helped him , I will enjoy watching him decapitate some QBs and running all over some poor suckers his Sr yr .

Getting astray yes I think it will help his wrestling as well when he has 4 do you think anyone will say he was held back ? Of course , when he does have four and a few more national titles and is wrestling D1 everyone will say damn that crazy ass dad of his went all out for his boys and his boy backed up every single bs cocky smack he ever said about his boys , ask all those haters in oh they have full bellys of crow I replaced all the shit they were full of with crow served on state brackets ,

Some before anyone was held back and some after ,

I am sure Hall is not perfect and some have had bad run ins with him but this I about the concept of what they did not any interaction with them and what they did was admirable not something to be blasted on ,

Shame on anyone for blasting on someone for enduring hardship for their kid and for blasting on a kid who is an underdog from the start , the whole concept sickens me ,and yeah I remember those same types of haters blasting me last yr saying my boys would find out like Mark did LOL yeaaah seems someone put a niche in their plans as well , guess there is a difference between 7th graders and true HS wrestlers ,

[grappler-of-old 44]

The spirit of the rule means. Why was the rule made?

1. The transfer rule: Was made so that kids would not jump from school to school so that they could play a specific sport for a specific team or person, because that hinders their education because of moving from school to school.

2. The eligibility rule: "you may only compete 4 years in high school" Was made so that kids would not be retained just for sports, especially if they are not having trouble with academics. Retaining a kid and having him/her repeat the same grade over does llittle good.

Both of these "Spirit of the rules" were broken by Mr Hall Sr.

You have to remembe M. Academics and school will always come first with me. Sports are fun to watch and agrue about but it should never take president over academics.

Once again I thouroughly enjoyed watching Hall Jr. wrestle, and it would have been nice if he would have won here as a 7th grader then stayed for his 6 state titles. But when he came in during wrestling season then moved out when it was over, that is where I balked at the decission not the kid or his wrestling.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Just because I'm a nerd and I can't sleep.

Here is KHSAA rules and reasonings. for Eligibility of grade level.

BYLAW 4. ENROLLMENT

Sec. 1) Maximum Number of Semesters

a) A student promoted from grade eight (8) to grade nine (9) shall have four (4) consecutive calendar years of eligibility from the date of fi rst promotion by the school provided the student is eligible according to this and all other Association bylaws.

The eligibility shall conclude with the completion of the spring sports season following the fourth year. No additional eligibility may be granted in a case where the grant would allow a student to compete in all or part of the fifth competitive season in a single sport following the initial promotion by the school from grade eight (8).

Sec 2) Ineligibility for Repeating Students

A student having been enrolled in the fourth (4th) grade or in any grade through twelfth (12th) shall not be eligible for interscholastic athletics at the high school level (grades 9 through 12) for more than a total of one (1) year in each grade and applicable eligibility shall begin in the fi rst year enrolled in that grade. A student repeating a grade for any reason is ineligible to participate in interscholastic athletics at the high school level (grades 9 through 12) during the second year in that grade. The penalty for violation of this rule shall be the loss of one of the four years of eligibility after being promoted from grade nine (9). Policies regarding the participation of repeating students at the levels of play below high school interscholastic athletics shall be determined by the school council pursuant to KRS 160.345 (2) (i)’

Case BL-4-1- Why is there a requirement that limits the number of semesters and stipulates a maximum

participation requirement?

Without a clearly defined limit, avenues remain open for redshirting, deception, legal maneuvering, and other athleticsdriven motivations for a student to remain in school rather than proceeding on into college or into the work force thereby denying the participation of a student who is otherwise “next in line” to play.

A maximum participation requirement is in place because it:

1) promotes timely progress toward graduation by discouraging students from delaying or interrupting their high school education;

2) disallows students to enroll for one single semester each school year to increase athletic ability and skill;

3) diminishes risks stemming from unequal competition;

4) places emphasis on the year-long academic mission of the school;

5) promotes harmony and fair competition among member schools by maintaining equality of eligibility affording each student the same number of semesters of athletic eligibility;

6) increases the number of students who will have an opportunity to participate in interscholastic athletics;

7) is conducive to the prevention of red-shirting;

8) helps avoid exploitation by coaches or boosters who otherwise might seek to obtain transfers or to delay a student’s normal progress through school; and

9) prevents displacement of younger student-athletes by older students wishing to protract unfairly their high school careers.

[grappler-of-old 44]

The Tranfer rule.

BYLAW 6. TRANSFER RULE- DOMESTIC STUDENTS

Sec. 1) Domestic Student Transfer

Any student who has been enrolled in grades nine (9) through twelve (12) and has participated in any varsity contest in any sport at any school while maintaining permanent residence in the United States or a United States territory following enrollment in grade nine (9) and who then transfers schools shall be ineligible for interscholastic athletics at any level in any sport for one year from the date of enrollment in the new school.

The Ruling Officer and Commissioner have discretion (but are not required) to waive the period of ineligibility set forth above if one or more of the following exceptions in Section 2 has been met. Determinations of whether a student shall be granted a waiver pursuant to this rule shall be based on the circumstances existing as of the date of enrollment at the new school.

Case BL-6-2- Why is there a transfer rule?

Nearly every state has a transfer rule to protect the integrity of the interscholastic program. These rules are necessary for several reasons including, but not limited to, the following principles:

1) these rules prevent and deter transfers due to recruiting or athletic reasons;

2) these rules protect the opportunities of bona fi de resident students;

3) these rules provide a fundamentally fair and equitable framework for athletic competition in an academic setting;

4) these rules provide uniform standards for all schools to follow;

5) these rules support the educational philosophy that athleticsis a privilege which should not assume a dominant position in a school’s program;

6) these rules keep the focus of educators and students on the fact that students attend schools to receive an education first, and participate in athletics second;

7) these rules maintain the fundamental principle that a high school student should live at home with parents or custodian in the event of parental death or incapacitation, and attend school in the school district in which they reside;

8) these rules reinforce the view that a family is a strong and viable unit and as such is the best place for students to live while attending high school;

9) these rules serve as a deterrent to students running away from, or avoiding discipline that has been imposed; and

10) these rules prevent manipulation of a residence change or other exception solely or primarily for the purpose of interscholastic athletics participation and serve to ensure the integrity of the rules adherence process.

I posted these just so you understand my thought process. I have had arguements with family members on this same issue, and disagreed with them when one held back their kid for sports. And I still stand by my belief on this.

Now let me get off my high horse or soapbox and let me have some more fun on here. This to me is not fun and having fun is the only reason I love this site.

[eville dad 17]

I like #3 the best, lets keep the competition fair for all playing by the same rules. Integrity is often lost in the world of sport.

[Mpire 76]

Hall is a fresh ,how did he break a rule applying to HS kids when in KY jr high kids are allowed to compete in HS?

That was an awful lot of typing when there are a few more rules that go along with all those you wrote .like the ones that allow the transfers ,

It's a free country so if someone wants to move for any reason whatsoever they should be allowed , and the only questions should arise when it's done duiring the year or season and even then there are legitimate reasons for moving .

Hall broke no rules whatsoever in Ky,all this is personal preference on the subject , it seems it was a matter of state pride rather than any actual problem to me it's not a pick on ky thing it was a good kid going to a state that allowed jr high kids to wrestle HS ,of course he went to minn after ky so who knows , either way get rid of the jr high rule if everyone doesn't like it , I think it's neat and adds twists and allows for kida to get better and that's what's really important not a bunch of bogus rules made to protect some HS kids who's felling a might get hurt or more likely their coaches and parents .

Let everyone compete on the level they choose and can ,

The real villain on all this transfer athlete talk is obvious . Private Schools . Taking kids from all over scooping up kida from districts outside their own and generally hiding behind religion and academics , I'm all for it but it's obviously not fair to the public teams ,

Here let me have the best kida from half a state and compete against teams that only allow kida from their area ,

What's your take on the "Spirit of That "or is that spirit ok because it's usually got a Holy Or a ST before it .nation wide it is totally unfair without question .

Let public schools take kids from wherever then it's all even .

[workhard 28]

Nice change of topic but the only middleschoolers who are allowed to compete in highschool are from middleschools that feed Public highschools.The middleschoolers from rivercity wrestling and shamrock wrestling although very capable were not allowed to compete . Quit being a hater on private schools and religious adjectives just as some could quit being haters of hold backs and rule benders.

[grappler-of-old 44]

If you allowed everyone to compete wherever they wanted then there would only be maybe 3 or 4 schools that would be competitive in the long run. That just makes things even worse for those kids that are good because there is less competition for them. You would have other teams starting the development of a kid then see him leave to one of the 4 schools that will win everything.

I absolutely have no problem with kids moving or attending a school for reasons outside of sports. Sports should not run a childs life, academics should run a childs life. The sports are there to help ease the tension of hard work in class and to relax the brain from all the learning that should be going on in the classroom. I have no religion however I know it is extremely important in 90% of peoples lives, so attending a school for religion (if it is truely the case) is not a problem either.

Breaking school records or national records in sports are nice but in the long run are really no big deal. Now earning a full academic scholarship to Harvard and finishing as the valivictorian of that Harvard class, now that is a huge deal. A thousand times more important and a bigger accomplishment than winning 6 state titles or finishing 1st in the nation or winning 4 NCAA titles while going undefeated.

And yes he did break a KY rule, even though the state looked the other way. It states in reason 1 that it was to prevent kids from moving for athletic reasons.

He also broke the Ky rule of participating twice for one grade level. I'm not sure what the rules are in his new state but that is what they are here. Rules are not iron clad, and KDE and KHSAA easily look the othe way when faced with possible lawsuits (even the ones they would probably win) because of the cost.

You can argue that they have to prove that the reason he moved was for academics, but that is not the point the point is he did even though it couldn't be proven.

Oh and by the way I didn't type all of the rules I cut and pasted it.

My mamma only raised one dummy and my sister is not typing this.

[grappler-of-old 44]

You are correct it is a free country and anyon can move for any reason. And when a system starts a program that you can join if you want or not join if you want they can make rules for that sytem.

There are wt. classes. So maybe we should say well we weighed him last year and he was 103 so he should be able to wrestle that weight, even though he now weighs 130.

Rules are there for a reason, not to be bent or broken. If someone does not like the rules then they don't have to join the team or league. KHSAA is a leage joined by schools, not all schools in KY are in that league, those that are not have to find their own competition. Folow the rules the way they were ment and don't find ways to bent them or break them without being caught.

It seems that since ole President Clinton got away with perjury on the stand by double talking and bending the rules, we all seem to think we can do it. "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" Wow then we had to define sexual relation. geesh.

[Mpire 76]

Well goo like I said h didn't break any ky rule because he did not compete twice In the KY league or whatever it is in the same grade he was in another state and organization sooo no rule was broken , in either state ,

Now smart people hold their kids back as sixth graders that way they can wrestle gradeschool and then get all three yrs in Jr High ,

Those high state placings and national placings lead to scholarships that help education its simple , now if everyone had the same thought as you do on the subject goo we would not have enjoyed all those olympic medals our us team got this Olympics or the last , Cejudo left his native state as a young man to wrestle at the Olympic training center do you think all those young gymnasts are academics first ? Not hardly ,

And I don't the on private schools

I like them I like their flexibility and the way they do not have the same limitations as public schools , I don't like how they try and hide behind religion and act as if they do not have a HUGE advantage , simply state tHe truth , I would send my own sons to a private school but the majority of top kids who attend them are not even of the same religion they want the academics and usually the sports plus'

Wasn't trying to switch topics it obviously is a thread about transfers schools and rules , and goo you pretty much described private schools when you stated there would be only a few top schools like , Trinity in Ky . And all the other private schools in other states , or ones with open enrollement ,

Acting like private schools do not have an advantage is ridiculous and as far as the private middle schools not competing in HS I doubt they are full of HS state champs if they were they would have won jr high state and they did not maybe a title or two but they probably wouldn't have made the teams in the private schools they intend to go to and NONE of them are anywhere near a Mark Hall or any transfers I have heard about in ky the last two yrs , guess that's a small negative to te huge plus of private schooling for athletes . Most studs do get their skills in other schools then head to private ones .

[Buckeye 20]

I got ya GOO, but I just think that that particular subject has been hammered over and over. The rules do not prevent the outcome. But I do understand your point.