No team scores for Youth State Tournament

[raidercoach 51]

Well it is official, people who have been involved in wrestling as the governing body of USA wrestling and AAU wrestling, have oversight of wrestling all over the country and have came up with weight classes know nothing about this sport. They should fold up those organizations and fall under the Kentucky 10% rule nationwide.

The Ohio TOC will just let you email your weights in this year with your coaches signature on a spreadsheet, because that is a trustworthy way of doing business.

Same with the Asics Nationals, Brute Nationals.....wait hold on, nevermind - they will still run their tournaments with weight classes and weigh-ins.

I never said they know nothing about the sport. I just don't think they care enough to stop weight cutting at the youth level. They have an ESTABLISHED product, we are trying to build something and build it the right way. Obviously many smart people in our sport have concerns about weight cutting, hence the fat and hydration tests being implemented. If they do it in high school and college to protect the wrestlers, why don't we do it at youth? Those other states don't do it at youth because of the same reasons we won't...organization and leadership.

Furthermore, I hope you aren't looking at those organizations you listed as the beacon of sports marketing. I think it is safe to say that our sport has swung and missed at marketing wrestling in this country and those organizations have been the ones at the plate. You have the hottest bed of athletes in this country (southeast) with basically no major collegiate participation in wrestling. Most of our states could care less about it at every level. Our sport is dying...but if you want to keep following a dying trend, go right ahead. After all, I have two daughters and no sons. With their lack of vision, by the time my girls go to college, there will only be womens wrestling.

[raidercoach 51]

Football and wrestling are tough to compare, but that is as applicable as the impact of weight on programs being dropped.

Ranger...now you are pissing me off. I know you...I know you didn't wrestle in college and I know for a FACT what I was told by people who accomplished more and know more about this sport than you ever will. My college team was dropped and the fact those four wrestlers died had an impact on that decision. I was there when it was discussed. You can believe it or not....I'm just inserting some facts from history that I have that you don't. You have a real issue with thinking you know EVERYTHING about wrestling. You need to get over this illusion that you are the Grand Poobah of Kentucky wrestling.

[Ranger123 43]

So again, you are saying the 10% rule is a prime solution to the marketing/participation/college problems wrestling has experienced the last few decades? Are you suggesting they implement it at the college level? Maybe we can get it in place before the Olympics kick off.

[raidercoach 51]

So again, you are saying the 10% rule is a prime solution to the marketing/participation/college problems wrestling has experienced the last few decades? Are you suggesting they implement it at the college level? Maybe we can get it in place before the Olympics kick off.

Don't twist my works Poobah. They implemented body fat and hydration tests while I was in school as a result of the kids dying. So they implemented change. You know as well as I do that we can't do that here at the youth level. Hence, the best alternative to prevent weight cutting is the 10% rule. That is my point.

What you are suggesting, is to ignore our sport's dark history of weight cuttting and go back to how it was with weight classes and NO fat/hydration tests at the youth level (assuming that is too big of a task for our association). I think that is a big step backwards. It re-inserts the culture of weight cutting at the youth level that I experienced as a youth in this area that we have been able to get rid of with the 10% rule.

Ranger, I envision you sitting in a small room arguing with the wall over the sky being blue. It is okay for you every now and then to accept someone else's point of view that might just know a thing or two about this sport. I'll try not to be insulting, but I know who you are and what you accomplished in this sport and sometimes I ask, "who is he to respond to these people that way". I appreciate your passion and knowledge, but no offense, you need to put your ego aside from time to time.

[Ranger123 43]

Ranger...now you are pissing me off. I know you...I know you didn't wrestle in college and I know for a FACT what I was told by people who accomplished more and know more about this sport than you ever will. My college team was dropped and the fact those four wrestlers died had an impact on that decision. I was there when it was discussed. You can believe it or not....I'm just inserting some facts from history that I have that you don't. You have a real issue with thinking you know EVERYTHING about wrestling. You need to get over this illusion that you are the Grand Poobah of Kentucky wrestling.

Okay, so I have accomplished at least one of my goals today. LOL. Never claimed to know everything or that I have all of the answers. Just sharing one man's opinion. No more, no less. But now that you have illustrated your superiority to us all maybe we should just all step aside and let you set the course for wrestling in our state. WOW! At least your bro has the humility and respect for others to realize that others may have valuable input as well. Whether they wrestled in college or not.

[tiltfor3 20]

Unless it was a student at your school, if I were a betting man (I am) I'd say Title IX compliance had more to do with your program being dropped. Cutting was in the culture of our sport. Cultures change.

[stalling 7]

Sigh... even if you have the 10 precent rule, what's to say parents and kids aren't going to start cutting well before the season starts to come in as low as possible? If you know the rules is in place, then allyou have to do is start cutting in August. Wrestlers will always cut. Its a shame and I don't agree with it, but they do. To say you cut 20lbs and beat a naturally smaller guy doesn't impress me. Wrestle what you weigh.

[raidercoach 51]

Unless it was a student at your school, if I were a betting man (I am) I'd say Title IX compliance had more to do with your program being dropped. Cutting was in the culture of our sport. Cultures change.

Of course Title IX was the excuse our school used to cut our program. But, there are other factors involved when a school decides which sports to cut. Such as team success, local community support, alumni support, finances, etc. They just don't pick the teams they want to cut out of a hat. Did Title IX have more to do with my team being dropped than cutting weight? No doubt. However, those deaths and the bad press at that time had an impact according to the lawyers that spoke with us.

Also, the law firm that represented us were a group of former wrestlers who were fighting the fight at the college level. They represented other programs other than ours as well. Their words, not mine, was that the deaths were mentioned by the administrations of all the teams they represented. At the time, that was a big deal. I know that in almost all of those cases the deaths weren't the driving force that got those programs cut. I just mentioned it to to insert a little tidbit of history and experience that I lived.

[raidercoach 51]

Sigh... even if you have the 10 precent rule, what's to say parents and kids aren't going to start cutting well before the season starts to come in as low as possible? If you know the rules is in place, then allyou have to do is start cutting in August. Wrestlers will always cut. Its a shame and I don't agree with it, but they do. To say you cut 20lbs and beat a naturally smaller guy doesn't impress me. Wrestle what you weigh.

I suppose what you are suggesting could happen, but it doesn't happen today with youth, as far as I am aware. As been discussed in great detail, it doesn't make a lot of sense to cut weight with the 10% rule. Also, I don't think most people cut weight to have the advantage of wrestling against smaller people. Usually, weight cutting is done to fit into your team's line up. I'm sure there are a lot of examples otherwise, but most of what I witness with weight cutting are wrestlers who just want to find a starting spot on a team or to make room for someone else to make the team stronger. Of course with 10%, the weights are unknown and there aren't "starting" team spots, which I think promotes wrestling your own weight.

[raidercoach 51]

Okay, so I have accomplished at least one of my goals today. LOL. Never claimed to know everything or that I have all of the answers. Just sharing one man's opinion. No more, no less. But now that you have illustrated your superiority to us all maybe we should just all step aside and let you set the course for wrestling in our state. WOW! At least your bro has the humility and respect for others to realize that others may have valuable input as well. Whether they wrestled in college or not.

I find it transparent that you suggest that YOU need to step aside to allow me to set the course for wrestling in our state. At least you admitted that you think you are in charge. I'll give you some credit for finally coming out and admitting that.

Humility and respect for others aren't words that I would use to describe your know-it-all attitude towards anything anyone has to say on these boards you disagree with. I pulled my credentials on you because I firmly believe you need a reality check. If you want to be a leader and represent our state, you should cherish other people's experiences and support of our sport instead of acting as if no one else's opinion matters unless they agree with you. You routinely attack people's posts with sarcasm or ask for more evidence as if we have to go out of our way to support everything we say for your approval. I know most of the people on these boards have good intentions and while I disagree with some opinions, I wouldn't question their integrity or honesty.

Example: I provided you with a detailed account with my real life experience of my college team being dropped and how our attorneys suggested the deaths from weight cutting impacted the decisions by the administrations they dealt with. You responded with a typical sarcastic response claiming that those deaths had nothing to do with teams being dropped. You are either calling me a liar or don't have enough respect for other people to actually listen to someone's experience that are relevant to this topic.

Example: You implied with no evidence that our team used wrestlers from other schools at the state tournament. By doing so, you are essentially calling us cheaters. Either provide evidence or don't mention it at all. You know the coaches for our team; why not bring what evidence you have to us. Instead, you insert an unfounded accusation on the state message boards and then just never mention it again when I ask for evidence. Then I call you out about winning the high school title with a pair of mid-season recruits and you hide behind the "we can't talk about eligibility". It is okay for you to question our eligibility, but we can't question yours...typical Ranger.

Example: You asked for more evidence of national tournaments using 10% rule (again we can't just make a claim with you, we must support it with a ton of evidence that you will more and likely ignore anyway). Coach Lee gave an example of a big tournament that I think you and your team may be attending and you just dismiss it. I find it insulting that Coach Lee or many other very qualified wrestling minds of this state have to constantly provide you with evidence just to make a suggestion with how to run our sport. Once they go out of their way for that evidence, you just find a way to dismiss it because you have already made up your mind. I'd rather you just have the guts to say "I think I'm smarter than anyone associated with Kentucky wrestling and therefore I know best" than put on this act as if you listen to anyone from this state.

These are just a few posts from this topic alone that demonstrate your "humility and respect".

[Ranger123 43]

Glad to see you put that superior college wrestling education to use tonight and failed to read plain english. I clearly typed "we ... all", not me, not I.

As far as being in charge, the only thing I claim to have any "control" over regarding wrestling is my team (as head coach) and middle school wrestling (as President of the KSWA). The feedback I receive on a consistent basis, from those of any consequence, is overwhelmingly positive. And I regularly admit that most of my successes have a lot of good people who play important roles in that success (from state titles to rankings to running a state tournament).

Example 1: Go back and use those reading skills again. After you posted about your college experience, I never said those deaths had no impact on teams being dropped. I'm sure that gave those in the administration who probably already wanted to cut the team needed ammunition. I simply stated I cannot believe that was the PRIMARY issue.

Example 2: I can name a couple of wrestlers off the top of my head, but I refuse to throw any kids under a bus here. I know of a couple kids who practiced daily and competed the entire middle school season with another team and competed with your team at the last couple youth state tournaments. Yes, they have been part of your club in the past, but were obviously part of another team at the time they competed with you. If it is still a mystery to you, call your brother. There could be others, but this is not against any rules so no need to make a list. And again, if you will properly read my response on the high school issue, I invited you to have a thorough discussion about that anytime you would like.

Example 3: Yes, Coach Lee gave a second example. I believe others were providing the balanced side of established national events that use weight classes. Neither myself nor my team will be attending the US Army Nationals.

From what I can see, you are the only person who has an issue with me sharing my opinion and have to read each post as a commandment from Mount Olympus. Last time I checked no rules were ever changed or enforced based on someones post on this site. This is simply a bunch of wrestling fans sharing thoughts and opinions.

[raidercoach 51]

Glad to see you put that superior college wrestling education to use tonight and failed to read plain english. I clearly typed "we ... all", not me, not I. As far as being in charge, the only thing I claim to have any "control" over regarding wrestling is my team (as head coach) and middle school wrestling (as President of the KSWA). The feedback I receive on a consistent basis, from those of any consequence, is overwhelmingly positive. And I regularly admit that most of my successes have a lot of good people who play important roles in that success (from state titles to rankings to running a state tournament). Example 1: Go back and use those reading skills again. After you posted about your college experience, I never said those deaths had no impact on teams being dropped. I'm sure that gave those in the administration who probably already wanted to cut the team needed ammunition. I simply stated I cannot believe that was the PRIMARY issue. Example 2: I can name a couple of wrestlers off the top of my head, but I refuse to throw any kids under a bus here. I know of a couple kids who practiced daily and competed the entire middle school season with another team and competed with your team at the last couple youth state tournaments. Yes, they have been part of your club in the past, but were obviously part of another team at the time they competed with you. If it is still a mystery to you, call your brother. There could be others, but this is not against any rules so no need to make a list. And again, if you will properly read my response on the high school issue, I invited you to have a thorough discussion about that anytime you would like. Example 3: Yes, Coach Lee gave a second example. I believe others were providing the balanced side of established national events that use weight classes. Neither myself nor my team will be attending the US Army Nationals. From what I can see, you are the only person who has an issue with me sharing my opinion and have to read each post as a commandment from Mount Olympus. Last time I checked no rules were ever changed or enforced based on someones post on this site. This is simply a bunch of wrestling fans sharing thoughts and opinions.

Wow....your arrogance is really coming out lately. You must really think highly of yourself to state that I think your posts come from Mount Olympus. "The feedback I receive on a consistent basis, from those of any consequence"...please enlighten me Grand Poobah how you determine who are of any consequence and who aren't. Are you even aware of how arrogant that sounds? Only the people that agree with you do you find "of any consequence"! I've seen other people complain about the same thing I'm complaining about on these boards. I've personally talked with many people that are sick of your know-it-all attitude, but just aren't as vocal as I am.

My reading skills are fine. I'm sorry you lack comprehension skills, but "we" didn't make that post about leading this state YOU did. You can hide behind the pronoun "we" or "us" all you want, but you are the one behind the keyboard. Everything I posted is true with evidence to back it up, yet you predictably dismiss it as if you know what is best.

Coach Lee gave you an example of a large tournament that uses the 10% rule and you asked for another example. He gave you another example then you asked for others. Why does he have to keep providing you with evidence? He has much better credentials than you as a wrestler, he has a much larger network of people who coach at major schools across the country that he is in constant communication with....he simply knows what he is talking about. Yet you act as if he has to do more to earn your respect. I think the opposite is true. I think you need to earn the respect of our state before you start barking orders to people like Coach Lee and Stan Martin.

I know of 3 kids that wrestled for our youth team at state that spent most of the season wrestling up at middle school. All of which wrestled all of their youth seasons with Raiders. A middle school team started up a couple miles from where we practice after these kids had already spent years in our program. These kids are studs and want to push themselves. Are you suggesting they shouldn't wrestle both middle and youth? They wanted to finish their youth career with the team they started with and wrestle up to push themselves to get better. They, as well as their families, should be commended for that commitment. Yet this "rubs you the wrong way". It's well within the rules and quite frankly is great for our sport to have such committed families. Not to mention you brought this up in the context of a team score debate. If this bothers you so much, take their 12 team points away and we still win the state tournament by 60 points.

Since we keep going back and forth over many topics, why don't you just prove me wrong on one topic? I'd like for you to elaborate on how our kids wrestling up at middle is a problem and what your solution would be. Are you suggesting a kid who wrestled 4 years for Raiders who decided to wrestle middle at WV should wrestle for WV's youth team? If so, that is asinine. I'm waiting with bated breath for that response. Instead, I'll probably just get another sarcastic and argumentative response with no substance other than that it came from the Grand Poobah Ranger from Mount Olympus.

[deadlift 1]

Concerning weight classes for individual state, I don't have a dog in the fight as I live and coach youth wrestling in Clarksville, TN. I do follow KY a little as we are on the KY/TN line right across from Hopkinsville and sometimes wrestle their tournaments. I was in the military for 22 years and my kids wrestled in New York, Georgia, Colorado and TN. We always wrestled in successful fixed weight class state tournaments. I don't see how the 10% method would prevent weight cutting. Whether it's an individual or a dual tournament, the desire to cut and wrestle smaller, more naturally lighter kids would still exist. Does KY actually do hydration testing of their youth wrestlers? Wow, if they do.

If using the 10% rule, what prevents kids from still cutting weight to make sure they are not close to the weights of their teammates? They wont know the exact weights, but they can increase their chances of seperation. Seems like fixed weight classes would take the numbers advantage out. Everyone wants large numbers but fixed weight classes would even the playing field. Also does KY even have a consolidated weigh-in or are weights sent in by coaches for their state tournament? Seems like a buddy of mine who had a son wrestle in the KY elementary state a couple of years ago said they didn't even weigh in. If no team scores will be kept anymore, I guess none of this really matters anyway.

[MLee 68]

Concerning weight classes for individual state, I don't have a dog in the fight as I live and coach youth wrestling in Clarksville, TN. I do follow KY a little as we are on the KY/TN line right across from Hopkinsville and sometimes wrestle their tournaments. I was in the military for 22 years and my kids wrestled in New York, Georgia, Colorado and TN. We always wrestled in successful fixed weight class state tournaments. I don't see how the 10% method would prevent weight cutting. Whether it's an individual or a dual tournament, the desire to cut and wrestle smaller, more naturally lighter kids would still exist. Does KY actually do hydration testing of their youth wrestlers? Wow, if they do.

If using the 10% rule, what prevents kids from still cutting weight to make sure they are not close to the weights of their teammates? They wont know the exact weights, but they can increase their chances of seperation. Seems like fixed weight classes would take the numbers advantage out. Everyone wants large numbers but fixed weight classes would even the playing field. Also does KY even have a consolidated weigh-in or are weights sent in by coaches for their state tournament? Seems like a buddy of mine who had a son wrestle in the KY elementary state a couple of years ago said they didn't even weigh in. If no team scores will be kept anymore, I guess none of this really matters anyway.

Deadlift, I appreciate your comments and understand how some don't understand the benefits of the 10% rule. Not sure how I became the spokesperson for it, but all I can tell you is it works and youth wrestling has flourished in KY (and Cincy, OH) using it. I believe the hypothetical situations you and others have mentioned simply are not happening. I suppose it COULD happen, but it's not. The results and evidence is there to support the benefits, people can choose to either believe it or not. I'm well aware of how everyone else does it (OH, PA, NY, etc.) but that doesn't necessarily make it better. These states have had youth organizations for a lot longer than us and are much more established. One quote from a youth coach from a very large program in Cincinnati, OH, "Cleveland is stuck in their ways."

I'm also aware of areas in our state that do not weigh in for Regionals. I can assure you most of our state does. It is a major problem that needs to be fixed, I agree.

[plantmanky1 58]

Deadlift, I appreciate your comments and understand how some don't understand the benefits of the 10% rule. Not sure how I became the spokesperson for it, but all I can tell you is it works and youth wrestling has flourished in KY (and Cincy, OH) using it. I believe the hypothetical situations you and others have mentioned simply are not happening. I suppose it COULD happen, but it's not. The results and evidence is there to support the benefits, people can choose to either believe it or not. I'm well aware of how everyone else does it (OH, PA, NY, etc.) but that doesn't necessarily make it better. These states have had youth organizations for a lot longer than us and are much more established. One quote from a youth coach from a very large program in Cincinnati, OH, "Cleveland is stuck in their ways."

I'm also aware of areas in our state that do not weigh in for Regionals. I can assure you most of our state does. It is a major problem that needs to be fixed, I agree.

10% rule for President then, perhaps (being its the best thing since sliced bread) it can fix all our problems in the country.

[MLee 68]

10% rule for President then, perhaps (being its the best thing since sliced bread) it can fix all our problems in the country.

[J.W. 21]

Deadlift, I appreciate your comments and understand how some don't understand the benefits of the 10% rule. Not sure how I became the spokesperson for it, but all I can tell you is it works and youth wrestling has flourished in KY (and Cincy, OH) using it. I believe the hypothetical situations you and others have mentioned simply are not happening. I suppose it COULD happen, but it's not. The results and evidence is there to support the benefits, people can choose to either believe it or not. I'm well aware of how everyone else does it (OH, PA, NY, etc.) but that doesn't necessarily make it better. These states have had youth organizations for a lot longer than us and are much more established. One quote from a youth coach from a very large program in Cincinnati, OH, "Cleveland is stuck in their ways."

I'm also aware of areas in our state that do not weigh in for Regionals. I can assure you most of our state does. It is a major problem that needs to be fixed, I agree.

You became the spokesperson as you (and as you mentioned again) the CYL are the only real advocates for this. You would fix the issue of no weigh ins by having weight classes and weigh-ins for the state tournament.

To call Cleveland stuck in their ways - you have not even began to see anyone else's point on this. The weight loss still exists in Kentucky - ask a kid - he tells you everything. 10% has not broke a code all it has done is allowed it to be easier on tournament directors. I think that each tourney director should be able to determine throughout the year on how they want to do it, but bottom line is if you want a real state tournament, run it like a real tournament of that caliber - Weight Classes and Weigh-ins.

If you are more impressed with the CYL, move to Ohio and have your kid be the city league champion, but if you want your kids to be a state champion, lets have them wrestle more than an 8 man bracket.

[raidercoach 51]

delete

[raidercoach 51]

This topic has gone from trying to get clarification to why the team scores got dropped to a battle over the 10% rule. For all of you who don't want the 10% rule, do you understand what our state brackets would look like with weight classes? Have you ever run a youth tournament in KY with weight classes? This isn't Ohio where you have hundreds of youth teams larger than our largest team. You would have 3 to 5 brackets that would take 3 days to finish and a ton with 2 to 3 kids in a weight class. You would actually reduce the overall competition for most of the weight classes.

Aside from reducing weight cutting, the 10% rule distributes the wrestlers evenly which to me is the biggest advantage of the 10% rule over fixed weight classes at the youth level, especially in developing states. If you want more wrestlers per weight class, we could easily bump it up from 8 to 16 man brackets. That wouldn't be a problem at all for most weight classes. For those who suggest there are people messing with the brackets, we could have more than one team putting them together to audit the process. I personally don't think that is a real issue, but if it would ease the minds of everyone then lets do it.

[raidercoach 51]

You became the spokesperson as you (and as you mentioned again) the CYL are the only real advocates for this. You would fix the issue of no weigh ins by having weight classes and weigh-ins for the state tournament.

To call Cleveland stuck in their ways - you have not even began to see anyone else's point on this. The weight loss still exists in Kentucky - ask a kid - he tells you everything. 10% has not broke a code all it has done is allowed it to be easier on tournament directors. I think that each tourney director should be able to determine throughout the year on how they want to do it, but bottom line is if you want a real state tournament, run it like a real tournament of that caliber - Weight Classes and Weigh-ins.

If you are more impressed with the CYL, move to Ohio and have your kid be the city league champion, but if you want your kids to be a state champion, lets have them wrestle more than an 8 man bracket.

JW, why are you suggesting that Coach Lee is the only one advocating this? The 10% rule was put in place by the people who started youth wrestling in this state which wasn't Coach Lee. We had weight classes before, it didn't really work for reasons I mentioned.

[MLee 68]

You became the spokesperson as you (and as you mentioned again) the CYL are the only real advocates for this. You would fix the issue of no weigh ins by having weight classes and weigh-ins for the state tournament.

To call Cleveland stuck in their ways - you have not even began to see anyone else's point on this. The weight loss still exists in Kentucky - ask a kid - he tells you everything. 10% has not broke a code all it has done is allowed it to be easier on tournament directors. I think that each tourney director should be able to determine throughout the year on how they want to do it, but bottom line is if you want a real state tournament, run it like a real tournament of that caliber - Weight Classes and Weigh-ins.

If you are more impressed with the CYL, move to Ohio and have your kid be the city league champion, but if you want your kids to be a state champion, lets have them wrestle more than an 8 man bracket.

JW, I am not the spokesperson for the 10% rule, but I am in favor of anything that helps our state. Our current bylaws have helped our youth wrestling grow every year. Why change them? What does a youth state championship mean to the resume of a wrestler? Absolutely nothing, especially in KY. I don't care if we made 100 man brackets. Do you think any college recruiter looks at that? Not a chance.

As it pertains to cutting weight. You claim weight cutting is occuring at our youth level. What evidence do you have? I coach a program with over 100 kids, none of them lose weight..not a single one. If you need proof, I can provide weigh in sheets from our first tournament to our last. We had less than 1000 participants in our state tournament, so I have a sample size of 10% to support my case. Is there an isolated case of some crazy dad/coach encouraging it? I'm sure. But that is the exception, not the norm.

[eville dad 17]

The problem with youth state sounds as simple as reducing the number of participants at the state tournament. Has the idea of qualifying tournaments been discussed, districts and regionals, semistates to get to a 16 man bracket for state?

[raidercoach 51]

The problem with youth state sounds as simple as reducing the number of participants at the state tournament. Has the idea of qualifying tournaments been discussed, districts and regionals, semistates to get to a 16 man bracket for state?

I don't believe anyone involved with the state tournament believes there is a "problem" with the event. It has run very smoothly the last few years, it has grown incredibly, the feedback we hear from the kids and parents that go is overwhelmingly positive. It has grown into a pretty cool event over a very short amount of time.

It has been discussed to move towards qualifying tournaments, but many don't want to do that just yet. The idea is to keep the momentum going and keep getting bigger. Getting kids to experience the spectacle of the state tournament helps hook them into the sport. I think everyone agrees that eventually we will get to the point where youth with be structured just like middle and high school.

There has been a ton of negativity on these boards and I have certainly contributed to it, but the fact is, youth wrestling in KY is in great shape. All we are going through now are growing pains. I don't think we should make any major changes because what we are doing is working. I think the biggest issues we have are trying to work out the state tournament to include all areas of KY, especially WKY and find a way to get other areas of the state to grow the same way NKY has lately.

The bigger issue I see is as youth wrestlers move up to middle and high school, so do their dads who are coaching. There will always be a quick turnover of coaches and people involved with the association. Hence, we seem to fight about the same issues every 2-3 years. All of the stuff we are fighting about now, we fought about before. I say we just leave well enough alone and lets see how big we can take it until we stop growing.

[Ranger123 43]

Agree raider. I would defintely not characterize the youth state as a problem. Obviously, I am not a fan of the team scoring process, but the tournament itself continues to grow and seems to run a little smoother each year. It seems like there has been a lot of discussion over the last few years about qualifiers etc, but no real plans. That is obviously a major change in direction that needs to be planned and set in motion in an organized manner. I guess what I would like to see is the association (and the coaches involved) determine what the direction is that we would like to go. And develop at 5 or so year plan to make it happen. I would like to see us take the next step at the youth level. Raidercoach believes we should continue to push growth as long as we can. Both reasonable approaches. If the concensus is "if it ain't broke don't fix it", then we should leave it alone. But if growth is the focus then we should be developing ideas that promote growth and not just hope it happens or continue to rely on the big clubs to get bigger.

[eville dad 17]

Sounds like the "if it aint broke dont fix it" applies here, the numbers for hs wrestling in KY continue to grow and its a result of the great work you are doing at the youth and middle school levels.

Keep it fun and keep em coming back for more!