NKAC

[pioneer_pride 1]

He would have to get in there first! My legs are virgin to the opponents hands.

No I'm saying if you shoot in on him and get caught under his girth...i.e. he sprawls on you.  Knees could buckle, herniated disc...bad news.  Not quite as bad as if I flopped down on you, but it wouldn't be fun. 

[clancy 0]

I would like to see Ryle attend the state duals. Undoubtedly, they are one of the top 2 teams in Northern Ky. I spoke with Coach Ruschell over the weekend, they had applied for SWOCA 3 years in a row and finally got accepted. If he declined, Ryle never would have been allowed to attend in the future. Personally, I think he made the right decision. I have seen a tremendous decline in the quality of Northern Ky wrestling over the last several years. Although each school outside of Ryle and CC have a few isolated good kids, the overall depth and competition is down, as it relates to overall team strength and depth.

Ryle is now at the mercy of Simon Kenton's Coach as to which team will be attending the state duals. I believe Ryle has a very legitimate chance of winning state duals if they attend. Simon Kenton has some very tough kids in their line up and they may want to see the state dual competition.  The NKAC collectively decided the top teams in the NKAC tournament attend state duals. Simon Kenton has earned the spot.

Ryle has a top notched Kentucky program. For those of you who feel snubbed, too bad. I don't think Ruschell is arrogant, he's hard core. There is a difference. He is trying and succeeding in making Ryle one of the best teams in Ky.

I am sorry but you are kidding(I hope).  Would SK's coach even consider this?  Why don't we just skip the regional tourney and send the top 16 ranked kids to Frankfurt.  While were at it we can skip the state tourney(we could rank the kids at the beginning of the season and skip the whole thing). This is the kind of crap that keeps holding Ky wrestling back, no legitimacy.  As far as feeling snubbed, if for any reason Ryle goes to the state duals I am sure a lot more people will feel "snubbed".  What a joke!!

[eville dad 17]

The state needs to set rules and stick to them. I have no dog in this fight but as a fan I would hope that only teams that earn a spot are the ones attending the State Duals. If they simply didnt have enough teams trying to qualify that would be reason to invite an at-large team, but I dont think thats the case here. If a Coach of a qualifying team opts not to attend because he doesnt think his team can win or compete with the best teams then they probably are in the wrong profession. All that would do is send a terrible message to his team.

Ryle's Coach's know what they are doing, they are a smart group and their teams do great. If they choos to bypass one tough meet (NKAC and State Duals) for another, thats their decision to make. I'm not sure which I would choose, I know the competition would be better at the GMVAC but theres something special to the kids about competing in a State Duals too!

Simon Kenton's boys will benefit greatly be attending the State Duals which could provide some of the best competition they will see all season. Perhaps from kids they would never see during the season. The experience they gain from going to State Duals could be difference in a match at the State Tournament.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Evilledad you are 100% correct.  However, Clancy should remember what SK did during the 2007 state dual tournament.  Their coach did not anticipate being a top 2 team at NKAC, therefore he scheduled another tournament in Ohio for that same weekend as the state duals.  Campbell County thought they were going to the state duals and left that weekend open.  SK's coach opted out and sent the #3 NKAC team (CC) instead. 

At the beginning of this season, I doubt SK's coach felt he would beat CC or Ryle and likely scheduled another tournament during the state duals weekend.  Interestingly, Ryle has an opening during the state dual weekend.  So, I beg the question, will this year be a repeat of 2007?  In no way was I saying anything negative about SK.  As I said earlier, they earned it and they have every right to attend. 

[eville dad 17]

Indiana has their duals at the end of the season, maybe that would be something for KY to consider to avoid the scheduling issue.

[grapplehed 8]

Apparently Clancy has some hard feelings towards Ryle.  I know the coaches there and in no way they are tryng to snub anyone.  They waited 3 years to get into the tournament in question.  It is equal to or better than the KY state tournament as is the GMVWA in Dayton.  Both tournament had college scouts or had wrestlers competing that college scouts were recruiting. 

Is it fair to say that they snubbed because they chose to send Ruschell, Peace and Reid to the Beast during the same weekend in the past? May have cost them a one seed instead of two.

As for the state duals, most state qualify by the number of returning qualifiers from the previous season.  Scheduling is tough enough.  So do you schedule a tournament, pay an entry fee then find out you qualify for state duals pay the fine and piss a school off by screwing the tournament up? or do leave it open with the possibilities of getting into another tournament? 

State has no bearing on the State Duals, it is run by the coaches association not the KHSAA.  Henry Clay gets to attend because they are the host school. ????

Some of the top schools in the past would not attend due to travel distance or simply scheduling conflicts.

[rooster21 0]

NKAC has changed its format three times in the last 6 years.  As for Ryle being arrogant thats not right.  Since when has it been Ryles job to make Northern Kentucky better.  Its Not!  As for Campbell County caring about the other and making them better I think they should leave kids to wrestle for the schools they started at.  Campbell County is looking more and more like a Northern Kentucky All-Star Team.   That alone would have helped teams like SK, Newport, and Conner.  At that rate no school is safe.  Bishop Brossart better watch out.  Who wouldn't want to coach that kind of team.  Ryle can at least say that there kids have been with the program since Middle school.  Don't for a minute think Ryle hasn't done its part to help Northern Kentucky wrestling.  Between camps and summer tournaments, and letting teams in there Raider Rumble so they can wrestle the better competition.  Ryle is on the rise and doing the right thing and people around here are just jealous at the rate they are doing it.  If Ryle keeps at the rate it is at you will see there name not just locally or state wide, but nationally.  One big difference between Ryle and other teams are the kids.  They believe in the system ever since middle school.  If they go to State Duals or not Ryle still knows they that they will be at the top of the leader board come Feb.  It is easy to talk about team when you know nothing about the program.  Those Ryle coaches are at the top of the coaches in the State if not the best.  If you think that it won't last just wait until the one in Wisconsin comes back.  They won't look back.

[pioneer_pride 1]

If you think that it won't last just wait until the one in Wisconsin comes back.

CC calls dibs on him.  Watched his match tonight.  Pretty cool.  That Metcalf is awesome.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Cock21, explain how CC makes kids attend their school, please?  I would like for you to educate me exactly how CC does so. Secondly, where did Bradford and Hogben go to middle school? Ruschell and Bankemper are two coaches at the absolute opposite end of the coaching spectrum in style, yet both are excellent. I would send my son to either school.

[kywrfan 0]

Cock21, explain how CC makes kids attend their school, please?  I would like for you to educate me exactly how CC does so. Secondly, where did Bradford and Hogben go to middle school? Ruschell and Bankemper are two coaches at the absolute opposite end of the coaching spectrum in style, yet both are excellent. I would send my son to either school.

Bradford started in the Raider youth program then attended Gray middle school. Hogben moved from Michigan after his freshman year.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Dear Cock21, I just watched the number one team in the Nation this past weekend. No offense to Ryle, but I don't believe a Kentucky school will register on the National TEAM radar screen for some time. No doubt Ruschell has placed Ryle on the Kentucky map. But really, try to be serious.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Dear Cock21, I am waiting for you to say "My dad can beat up your dad". Lol, try not to let your DNA bias speak so loudly! Relax, I am a big fan of Coach Ruschell and the Ryle program. Just try not to let your idiocy speak negatively of Coach Bankemper and the CC program. Sometimes a state champ moves into your district, like Ryle's first state champ, J. Blackmore happened to leave Boone County High School and enter Ryle High School. As of yet, no state champ has moved into CC, just a couple of good kids.

[D1 Fan 9]

Enough already... there has to be something more interesting to discuss... lets move on...

[grapplehed 8]

Point 1.

Look, the NKAC has been going on the same dragging weekend for the last 300 years.  It could be settled in a much easier and simpler format without taking up a tournament weekend. It is my understanding some of the coaches are working on this. 

2. go to the # number of returning qualifiers as I mentioned before and the teams are set the year before.

Sorry Cockadoodle but the following names were not in the MS program, Blackmore-SC, Fassbender-SC, Koehler-Runner up, I forget the other SC's at Ryle. 

and For the record, "my dad did beat up his dad", sister too!

[bulldog-leader 56]

 Don't for a minute think Ryle hasn't done its part to help Northern Kentucky wrestling.  Between camps and summer tournaments, and letting teams in there Raider Rumble so they can wrestle the better competition.  

Camps and summer tourneys are to make $$$ for their program.

As for the Raider Rumble don't get me started on that old sore thumb.  Inviting us then telling us we can't come on Friday morning before the tourney. 

 

One big difference between Ryle and other teams are the kids.  They believe in the system ever since middle school.

Most of the other top schools have this same dedication and belief in their team and program from grade school through high school and beyond.

[clancy 0]

Apparently Clancy has some hard feelings towards Ryle.  I know the coaches there and in no way they are tryng to snub anyone.  They waited 3 years to get into the tournament in question.  It is equal to or better than the KY state tournament as is the GMVWA in Dayton.  Both tournament had college scouts or had wrestlers competing that college scouts were recruiting. 

Is it fair to say that they snubbed because they chose to send Ruschell, Peace and Reid to the Beast during the same weekend in the past? May have cost them a one seed instead of two.

As for the state duals, most state qualify by the number of returning qualifiers from the previous season.  Scheduling is tough enough.  So do you schedule a tournament, pay an entry fee then find out you qualify for state duals pay the fine and piss a school off by screwing the tournament up? or do leave it open with the possibilities of getting into another tournament? 

State has no bearing on the State Duals, it is run by the coaches association not the KHSAA.  Henry Clay gets to attend because they are the host school. ????

Some of the top schools in the past would not attend due to travel distance or simply scheduling conflicts.

I will say again, this has nothing to do with Ryle.  I could care less what Ryle does.  This has do do with rules and precedence.  If a school (Ryle in this case) wants to send their varsity team to a tougher tourney, go for it(I would).  However, you sacrafice a chance to go to the state duals.  That's it for me, nothing more.  In this case Ryle varsity went to the classic, I felt none of the two and outs should have been at the nkac, they were and I really don't care that much I just wonder what the rules state, they then gave up the state duals for a better tourney.  If you want you can use the name Anyteam USA in place of Ryle, but in this case it happens to be Ryle's actions that have bought this to the forefront.

If Ryles jv would have placed 1st or 2nd at the nkac, I would argue that the same line-up should go to the state duals,  with the exception of injuries(none of the guys that weren't at the nkac).  Maybe you could think of it as one weigh-in, once at the nkacs and once at the state duals, therefore it is one tourney. 

[clancy 0]

On the same subject, can anyone explain the state duals to me.  I am not from KY and don't recall any "state duals" in any other top wrestling states (OH, PA, NJ, NY).  Why does ky do them at all?  I may be wrong about the other states, I just never heard of them.  Seems to me if teams want to get in better tourneys, then KY could get rid of the duals all together, seems like some teams feel forced to go (like Christmas with the in-laws, you go and smile but you would rather be somewhere else).

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

State duals makes perfect sense to me. There are 2 types of good teams. Good tournament teams and good dual teams. A good tournament team could have 3 or 4 studs/champions and win a team tournament but that same team may be terrible in a dual because their teammates are weak.Vice versa for a good dual team.

Last year Trinity were state dual champs while Union ran away with the KHSAA tournament. See, both were state champs!

Personally, I like it.

I have a question for the Simon Kenton fans; Is Simon Kenton going to the state duals this year or do they have prior commitments?

[clancy 0]

State duals makes perfect sense to me. There are 2 types of good teams. Good tournament teams and good dual teams. A good tournament team could have 3 or 4 studs/champions and win a team tournament but that same team may be terrible in a dual because their teammates are weak.Vice versa for a good dual team.

Last year Trinity were state dual champs while Union ran away with the KHSAA tournament. See, both were state champs!

Personally, I like it.

I have a question for the Simon Kenton fans; Is Simon Kenton going to the state duals this year or do they have prior commitments?

I guess it is the attempt to make wrestling a team sport.  But from my point of view it hurts the guys that would benefit from the tougher competition.  "Hey what did you place in the Classic?"..."I didn't go, but we won the state duals in KY!!".  I just don't see any benefit to it, waste of two weekends to me.

[Ranger123 43]

I guess it is the attempt to make wrestling a team sport.  But from my point of view it hurts the guys that would benefit from the tougher competition.  "Hey what did you place in the Classic?"..."I didn't go, but we won the state duals in KY!!".  I just don't see any benefit to it, waste of two weekends to me.

Some states determine their team state champions with this format (maybe IN), so I wouldn't completely dismiss it.  I do agree that the "regional duals" concept has built in some scheduling difficulties for KY, but I think it is something that the coaches will figure out.  Maybe it is time for the NKAC to be looked at.  Maybe it isn't in the best interests of the teams to continue it, at least as it is currently formatted.

[heavy83 15]

Just a suggestion why don't coaches try to get the state dual be a tournament that does not count against the 17 limit.  Since you have to qualify to wrestle in it you should not be penalized for having a good team.

[rooster21 0]

Sounds like I struck a nerve with I-pined-no-one.  There has never been a state champ or state placer ever move to Ryle.  They trained and they became state champs or state placers at Ryle (big difference).  All of the other State champs Ruschell, Aylor, Peace, Reid all wrestled for Gray.  Hogben(Michigan), Fassbender(Ohio), and Koehler(Upper Ohio) they are not from our area.  I never said CC made anyone go there.  That was just funny that CC is trying to make the wrestling around here better with kids from other schools that are around here. As for Blackmore they moved so Jordan could wrestle remember Boone didn't have a program.  The difference between Ryle and Boone at that time Ryle was interested in having a wrestling team.  I didn't say look back since Ryle program started to find kids that didn't attend Gray.  Look at there line-up right now and you can only find two kids that didn't wrestle for Gray.  Hogben moved from Michigan freshman year, And the heavy weight started two years ago.  Ryle didn't make a dime for the camp they host with Barry Davis, and Kyle Ruschell.  As for the Rumble if you don't think that happens any where else get serious.  It happens.

[BC FROG 0]

On the same subject, can anyone explain the state duals to me.  I am not from KY and don't recall any "state duals" in any other top wrestling states (OH, PA, NJ, NY).  Why does ky do them at all?  I may be wrong about the other states, I just never heard of them.  Seems to me if teams want to get in better tourneys, then KY could get rid of the duals all together, seems like some teams feel forced to go (like Christmas with the in-laws, you go and smile but you would rather be somewhere else).

Ohio Duals - 2009 Event Info

2009 OHSWCA-sponsored Ohio Duals

January 11, 2009

Division I @ Wadsworth

# 1 Lakewood St. Edward vs. # 8 Grove City Central Crossing

# 5 Cincinnati Moeller vs. # 4 Elyria

# 3 Wadsworth vs. # 6 Cincinnati St. Xavier

# 7 Beavercreek vs. # 2 Massillon Perry

Division II @ St. Paris Graham (NEW SITE)

# 1 St. Paris Graham vs. # 8 Perry

# 5 Harrison Central vs. # 4 Medina Highland

# 3 Lexington vs. # 6 Columbus St. Francis DeSales

# 7 New Richmond vs. # 2 Hunting Valley University School

Division III @ Evergreen

# 1 Troy Christian vs. # 8 Monroeville

# 5 West Jefferson vs. # 4 Bedford St. Peter Chanel

# 3 Marion Pleasant vs. # 6 Elmwood

# 7 Clinton-Massie vs. # 2 Cuyahoga Heights

Ohio Duals - Selection Process

O.H.S.W.C.A.-Sponsored

Ohio Duals Team Tournament

QUALIFYING FORMULA

A. Four points for each underclass member of their team that qualifies for the District Tournament.

B. Four bonus points for each underclass member of their team that wins one or more matches at the District Tournament.

C. Teams receive all team points earned by underclassmen competing in the District Tournament.

D. In the event an alternate has the opportunity to compete in the District, he will be scored the same as any other qualifier. If an alternate does not have the opportunity to compete, they will not count in accumulating team points.

E. The top two teams will be invited to compete in the Ohio Duals. In the event a team declines, the invitations will be offered in order of team finish based on the above formula.

F. In the event of a tie, the team with the most district qualifiers is invited.

G. In the event of a tie, the team with the most District champions (then 2nd, 3rd, 4th, etc.) is invited.

 

       

 

[BC FROG 0]

http://www.ohswca.com/

Information found on Ohio High School Wrestling Coaches Association Website

Maybe we could adopt some of their qualifying criteria statewide instead of letting the conference decide who attends state duals. 

[eville dad 17]

In my opinion its important to establish the team duals to help develop the importance of team wrestling in a state still trying to continue the growth of the sport. I think KY wrestling has improved and grown a great deal in the last 5-10 yrs but to sustain that growth it needs to continue to improve and grow the numbers of kids wrestling.

I think its important for the state to promote State Duals because it does emphasize the team aspect and recognize the ultimate team effort which includes all the wrestlers not just the ones that medal each weekend.

Those are the kids that add to the numbers that ultimately grow the sport.

I have always thought the current setup for duals created to long of a day, and diminished the competitive aspect of the event. Lets face there aren't that many teams with a  legitimate shot at winning state duals, so why prolong the fact and make the day so long that traveling schools have to lay over because the tournament last so long. No wonder some teams from far away don't care to attend, if they aren't going to be that competitive and its going to be expensive, lets eliminate that problem. Reduce the number of teams competing on championship weekend and it becomes more competitive and less expensive to attend.

This is not as complicated as it sounds, but is compounded by the lack of authority directing the sport. The state or the coaches whoever has any control (and I use that term loosely, because the state, I don't think is directly involved in duals and the Coaches Assoc sort of exist, sort of doesn't, certainly not the presence it could be in the sport). The Coaches Assoc could really become more active in the sport.

Set scheduling so that the duals qualification is all decided on inter region duals and then have the 8 region championship teams in an 8 team dual bracket. 1st round would be 4 duals between neighboring regions during the week, dueling for a chance to attend Championsip weekend at a central location with the top 4 teams wrestling the weekend before state.

This is the same format or similar as to how Indiana does it and it works well. If coaches are opposed to wrestling the weekend before state schedule for the weekend after state or find a weekend that doesn't compromise the regular season schedule.

Please don't blast me for this post, I don't expect these ideas to provide all the answers, but could be a good working base to build upon.

Just an idea on how to possibly improve an already good event for the sport.

Lets hear other ideas on how to improve this aspect of the sport.