Large public university to start wrestling team?

[BluegrassRiver 0]

What major Kentucky university ( UK , UL, WKU, EKU, Morehead, Murray, etc) athletic program will be smart enough to first start an official team and attract high school graduates from about 80 high schools in KY to their university? 

[Guest wrestler92]

None.

[BluegrassRiver 0]

Are you trying to say they are not very smart because they are managed and run by basketball and football people?

[Guest wrestler92]

it's not profitable for them and there is only one other school in the big east with wrestling i believe and not sure of the other conferences, but I just don't see it ever happening.

[Old School 0]

it's not profitable for them and there is only one other school in the big east with wrestling i believe and not sure of the other conferences, but I just don't see it ever happening.

Isn't the big ten profittable :?

[DHHScurl145 0]

Isn't the big ten profittable :?

i'm sure the big ten is proffitable

but none of those teams are in that conference

the conferences that UK and the other schools are in are not big wrestling conferences

the SEC isn't known for its wrestling

for college wrestling, the big ten is where its at IMO

[Guest wrestler92]

There are no Kentucky schools in the big ten conference and those schools in teh big ten conference have several hundreds of in state high schools with wrestling at them, not 75-80.  and those hundreds of high schools many times have 3-4 deep rosters instead of the 25 or so in kentucky that have about 9-10 kids on them.  In my first year of college i went to several practices at a high school in Chicago and there were about 100 kids on the team and they were all real good.  

[grapplehed 8]

1st let me say that none of those schools have the balls to challenge title ix, which is what put most of those programs down in the beginning.  2nd There aren't too many programs that make money, on the other hand they don't cost much to operate either.  Do you know how much it cost to run a DI A football program?  Remain DI A status?  It's ridiculous.  Back to my point if there is one,  using rough numbers, you have 100k in operating budget.  25 kids on the team at 10k tuition=250k.  less 50k in 5 scholarships.  Leaves you 100k in university profits, not to mention the the ripple of alumni. 

On a side note, the Big Ten wrestling championships are profitable, as a matter of fact so is NCAA wrestling championships.  Probably one of the most profitable among the NCAA sports. 

It will come back to Title IX regardless. 

[BluegrassRiver 0]

It can't be Title IX because wrestling is considered a "co-ed sport" on a national basis.  It is not for just  males only anymore.  USA Wrestling's national website has information to debunk that myth and their leaders have been working to convince college athletic departments that they should put this co-ed sport in their programs. Since women are wrestling now, the fact that athletic departments won't initiate wrestling makes them appear to be anti-women.  Title IX is actually on our side if you approach the arguement in this way.

[#1fan 0]

It can't be Title IX because wrestling is considered a "co-ed sport" on a national basis.  It is not for just  males only anymore.  USA Wrestling's national website has information to debunk that myth and their leaders have been working to convince college athletic departments that they should put this co-ed sport in their programs. Since women are wrestling now, the fact that athletic departments won't initiate wrestling makes them appear to be anti-women.  Title IX is actually on our side if you approach the arguement in this way.

Yea but when the SEC was pretty well known for wrestling, and the whole title 9 thing started it was an all male sport.  And the SEC didn't produce enough revenue to keep their program alive, and start up a new program for women. Now they figure that most universities in the SEC couldn't afford it.

But it would be nice, Kentucky D1 wrestling schools would definitely make High school wrestlers in our state work harder in my opinion.

[tiltfor3 20]

I've got my AARP card and I don't ever remember the SEC being "known for wrestling". They have comparable budgets as the Big 12 and 10 conferences but pale in comparision as to the number of sports they support.

[eville dad 17]

I have been writing letters annually to the A.D.'s at our State Universities asking them to consider adding Wrestling.

The only good enough to send a reply were from NKU and WKU.

NKU cited Title IX and the expense involved in extensive traveling to compete because there weren't enough schools close by to maintain a schedule. I fully appreciated her reply and understand her concerns but also explained that wrestling is now a coed sport and the sport competes between NCAA classes. DI-DII-DIII-NAIA all compete against one another making it easier to minimize the travel for competition. She is aware of the popularity of the sport in N. KY and the surrounding areas.

WKU simply stated they couldn't afford it considering their move in football which includes more scholarships.

I have never heard back from UL or EKU, both good candidates.

I think the addition of wrestling at a State University is very important to the sports growth!

[grappler-of-old 44]

NKU cited Title IX and the expense involved in extensive traveling to compete because there weren't enough schools close by to maintain a schedule. I fully appreciated her reply and understand her concerns but also explained that wrestling is now a coed sport and the sport competes between NCAA classes. DI-DII-DIII-NAIA all compete against one another making it easier to minimize the travel for competition. She is aware of the popularity of the sport in N. KY and the surrounding areas.

This is the same lady who made the comment.  "As long as I am AD at NKU they will never bring back wrestling."

While I was attinding NKU (in the 80's) with several other friends who wrestled this is the comment told to us.  We were offered to start a club using NKU's name but nothing more. Some of these friends are still on this web site.

[kdsmith27 14]

This is the same lady who made the comment.  "As long as I am AD at NKU they will never bring back wrestling."

While I was attending NKU (in the 80's) with several other friends who wrestled this is the comment told to us.  We were offered to start a club using NKU's name but nothing more. Some of these friends are still on this web site.

I have also been contacting the universities and addressing the same issues from the USA wrestling side of the house. I have sent info to debunk title IX excuses the benefits of a program at there university, and also a resolution that was passed by one of our State Representatives (Steven Riggs) that is an avid wrestling fan in our house of representative to consider a wrestling program in our state universities. At least you received the courtesy of an answer. If you have not seen this resolution, i have attached the hyperlink.

http://eteamz.active.com/kyusawrestling/files/HJR_203Wrestling.pdf

[grapplehed 8]

KD,

In what ways are they encouraging the sport of wrestling to be added to the public universities? 

I have also heard the same about NKU's AD saying that she would never start another male program. Bluegrassriver, I understand your point about coed, but that is easier said than done.  As long as their numbers are in proportion, they will not go out of their way, not to mention, these guys don't want to come under fire from alum, activists etc. The damage has been done and it is very hard to reverse most of these situations. 

Keep pounding the letters, I will do the same. 

Is there a generic one that can be copied and flooded to the PU's of KY? 

[eville dad 17]

How about an organized effort from the Kentucky Wrestling Coaches Association, supported by parents, relatives and fans which by the way includes current and future in-state tuition paying citizens of the same state which supports these schools?

[grapplehed 8]

let it rip eville, I nominate you to lead the charge.

[eville dad 17]

Im not a coach, just a dad wishing my kid could consider a state school to attend and have the option to wrestle. I wouldn't mind leading a charge if the coaches were to be involved, I think it will take a state organization's endorsement to really get any attention to the matter along with support from the community, politicians, businesses and alumni. It's just a shame our state doesnt have this to offer to the kids.

Unfortunately, I think it will take a leader from within the ranks to get any kind of support. Grapple are you a coach, you seem to know alot about this subject? Any ideas!

[grapplehed 8]

I wish I had more time to put forth into it.  I have had some experience in the past w/ Title 9 at the collegiate level.  I could also get in touch with someone on the national level who has taken the reigns in the Title 9 battle.  He would know what state reps, congress etc to contact and possibly a game plan.  As far as me coaching, yes unofficially, I help a few programs out.  I may get back into the coaching ranks someday or maybe an official.  Right now, time comittment prohibits me from coaching a program to the level that I would want to take it to. 

[plee 0]

I would think getting a program started at U of L, UK, or even NKU is probably several years out at best.  The club teams that are at a couple of the universities sound like the best way to start the seeds of a true program.  How are these club teams doing?  If they do really well (numbers wise) it seems like that would be useful to show the school president or AD that there is enough interest in the sport at their school. 

[wj215 0]

morehead state should start one they have the talent there...i was attending school there and i was a 2 time national qualififer and two time district wualifier from ohio...i know the two albaneese brothers that are their from fairbanks ohio are both state qualifiers and national qualifiers...there are twoo cheerleaders there who are california state qualifiers and they wanted to get a team started..theres a couple guys i met there from georgia and i wrestled them at nationals...a couple kentucky state qualifers...a good looking line up especially with the ohio boys and the california boys (california one division for all team so state qualifier is pretty big) and the georgia kids are studs..the best thing any of the kentucky schools can do is start a club team, which can be done through the ncwa without approval of any higher ups, and get intrest in the program and see what they can do from there

[wrestling4life 0]

I have heard that Union may be starting a team, and for these schools that say that there is no money, make it a club sport. I mean the students have to do most of the work, but the NCWA is the governing body and their national championship is huge. I belive their website is www.ncwa.net

[Charger Coach 14]

1st for grapplehead, it does cost a lot of money to run a D1 football program, but they also bring in a ton of money as well.  For example, they usually have at least 6 home games a year that attract at least 40,000 people to each.  240,000 people who pay at least $15 a ticket (most ticket prices are anywhere from $20 to $200).  You do the math.  That is not including the rich alumni who make generous contributions to the program & university just to have the right to buy season tickets.  Imagine programs like Michigan who attract over 100,000 each game.  That is not to mention the revenue that they receive from lucrative bowl games, t.v. deals, athletic apparel sales & the money they bring in when 1 or more teams from their conference play in a BCS bowl game.  I have seen many people wear Andre Woodson or Brian Brohm jerseys, but have yet to see anyone wear a Cael Sanderson singlet.  Alumni are also more inclined to donate to a mainstream sport like football or basketball especially when they can take pride in the fact their teams play on national t.v. at least 2 or 3 times a year or more.  As far as wrestling is concerned, no it doesn't bring in much revenue, but it takes a little more to run a program than one might think.  You do have travel expenses (transportation, lodging & meals), coaching salaries, singlets, equipment likes mats & throw dummies, the cost to keep up the facilities, conference fees & not mention if you have home meets, referee fees & the cost to run the venue for the evening.  I understand most wrestlers will pay tuition out of their pocket & many won't have scholarships, but the scholarships they do have aren't free & the tuition most would pay goes towards paying profeesor salaries, room & board & university facility upkeep, in addition to grants funded by the university's annual endowment, research projects & academic department fees other than salaries.  A program at Kentucky or Louisville would generate a negative cash flow.  Programs in the Big 10 succeed because of the interest, national exposure (those programs do have some meets on t.v.) & attendance at given meets.  The Big 10 championships are a big money maker for them.  What conference championships would Kentucky or Louisville attend?

Second for BluegrassRiver, wrestling is not considered a co-ed sport on the collegiate level unless scholarships are offered & given to female athletes & that won't happen.  Yes, females can compete, but they must be afforded the same scholarship opportunities as the males.  Besides, Title IX is more than just participation or offering an equal amount of sport participation or programs.  It also encompasses the amount of money budgeted to each sex.  Universities are not going to spend extra money on wrestling & take away from sports like football, basketball & baseball in order to even the amount of finances distributed to each gender's program.  For example, if you have to budget $100,000 to a wrestling program (& it would take that much contrary to popular belief), a university would either have to take that money away from the mainstream programs or increase the budget to female programs to match.  Let's face it, neither will happen.

I would love nothing more than to see wrestling offered as an intercollegiate sport on the DI level in Kentucky, but it is not going to happen any time soon if at all.  There is not enough interest statewide.  It is kind of a Catch-22.  Major college wrestling programs would help to generate more interest in wrestling at the high school, but universities will not start college programs unless there is more interest generated.  Plan & simple, it sucks!

[grapplehed 8]

Dragon Master, I understand the details, thats why I gave rough numbers.  Most of the football teams you are referring to are in football are playing in a bowl game as well.  40,000 is a bunch of people for a smaller IA school like Northern Illinois or Buffalo in the MAC.  How much money does the Northern Illinois Football team bring in?  A team that will never, make a bowl, much less maintain a IA status.  85 scholarships plus their baggage.  Years ago, it used to be 27,000 in attendance for x amount of games to remain IA football.  I remember one school, were counting people in attendence from 1,000 yards away from the stadium so they could keep their status or they had to build a 30,000 seat stadium.  They built 5,000 more seats the following year.  It was so bad, admission to athletic events was rolled into your tuition, just show your ID. They were losing money as does several other schools outside the major DI conferences. 

It doesn't take that much to run a program, been there done that.  Let me rephrase that, I agree it takes more than one might think, but it really doesn't take that much.  What about the other non revenue sports, swimming, tennis, baseball? 

A team like Louisville or UK, if in fact DI, would probably fall into the Southern Conference with UTC, UNCG App St. etc.

I don't think it would happen soon either or it would have happened already.  Who wants to go wrestle for a club in college in hopes there will be a program someday?  Field of Dreams "If you build it, they will come".  But it the real world, "Prove it will work, and we will support you"  Catch 22.

[eville dad 17]

The sport needs an alumnus with deep pockets to get behind this and it could happen very quickly!

Who in the sport's history has been very successful financially, enough so to seed the funding for a program?

What if an organizing group had funding to donate to a school for starting a program, would that make a difference.

Any efforts to pursue private or corporate funding for such an undertaking?

Any corporations who could get behind this kind of effort, any who support amatuer sports and a well rounded sports offering at the state universities? Ford, UPS, Humana, Toyota ??

Should the effort go toward the University boosters looking for someone to support the cause and let them take push it thru the school.

Could the USAW help with such a task?  I'm sure they could see the benefit to their efforts by expanding not only with a collegiate program but also by expanding a whole sates effort for their sport.

I think it could happen, its not that hard to believe. But it would really benefit from an organized effort from the hometown boys involved with the sport already. Perhaps the KHSAA, KWCA, USAW, AAU, all of the above!