Youth State Ridiculous!

[grapplehed 8]

Folks, I have only scanned the posts on this topic, mainly because they are WAY too long.  Correct me if I am wrong, but we are now having 2 state tournaments March 3 and 24 and now an open tournament on the 24th to conflict with the 2nd state tournament? This is getting way out of hand.  This may do more harm than good!  Think about the kids! 

[Pinking 0]

Why would anyone schedule a Elementary School State Championship so late in March anyway.  Baseball for the kids in most cases will have already started and wrestling is already a month over for High School and Middle.  Its hard to keep the interest up so long after the season.  I would move the State Championship on the 24th up a week or two.

[Ranger123 43]

Why would anyone schedule a Elementary School State Championship so late in March anyway.  Baseball for the kids in most cases will have already started and wrestling is already a month over for High School and Middle.  Its hard to keep the interest up so long after the season.  I would move the State Championship on the 24th up a week or two.

I'm not real happy about the way this worked out either, but have you ever tried to schedule a high school facility?  It doesn't happen at the snap of a finger, especially when you're talking about getting use for elementary kids.

[SpartanMom 0]

I fail to see why our Open Tournament would be frowned upon--if I am not mistaken we are trying to build an elementary season and I would think having weekend tournaments would be the way to do that--how can we wrestle if there is no venue????  McCreary just wants to wrestle on February 24th--we are not trying to turn it in to anything other than that.  I certainly hope more programs will host tournaments so our kids can wrestle.  Unless you choose to travel out of state there are little to no opportunities for elementary kids to wrestle--we just want to get on the mat--hopefully others will also!

[grapplehed 8]

I am referring to March 24th not Feb. 24th.  I agree with you on the open tournaments.  However, it seems that there are now 2 tournaments that just happen to fall on the same day which is March 24th.  Coincidence, I don't think so. 

[SpartanMom 0]

Sorry for the mistake--I forgot about the other date--I do think that date was set a while ago since it is a yearly thing.  I will just be glad to wrestle.

[plee 0]

I am referring to March 24th not Feb. 24th.  I agree with you on the open tournaments.  However, it seems that there are now 2 tournaments that just happen to fall on the same day which is March 24th.  Coincidence, I don't think so. 

grapplehed....this is an old, tired argument.  Please get over the fact that there is going to be 2 elementary state tournaments.  here's the facts so you can get caught up to speed:

There are 2 elementary state tournaments because no one could get a hold of anyone from Johnson County to make plans for the next elementary state tournament.  Pam Clark, Stan Martin and myself all tried more than once to get a hold of Jim Matney.  No one could.  I've been told he coaches football....i understand he was busy, but still the only email address & phone number I could find I tried to contact him through...and I'm told Pam & Stan did the same thing...they (Pam & Stan) then decided to move ahead and make plans to organize the next state tournament....they tried to get the word out the best they could to hold a meeting to plan for state.  Again, no one from JC showed up to that meeting.  They set a date of 3/3/2007.  Pam Clark called me and asked me when we were planning on hosting our annual Border Wars qualifier.  I told her count on us hosting it on 3/24....so i requested our gym at Conner for 3/24/2007 back in like October!!!  So they decided to shoot for 3/3/2007.  Ryle requested to host it.  Around December timeframe, I got told by Ryle that their gym got taken away.  We wanted to keep this event in our region for this year.  So I requested the gym at Conner.  Let me reiterate, this is DECEMBER....and no one has heard of this tournament being planned for at JC.  I got our gym reserved for 3/3/2007...at that time, I contacted the people from the Michigan Youth Wrestling Association and requested a pairing official to come to both our 3/3 & 3/24 event...i did this in early December (before 12/15 for sure).  The pairing official was available for 3/3/2007, but not 3/24/2007....so i booked her for that day.  I also signed a contract with the border wars to host our annual tournament on 3/24.  If I back out of either event, it will cost me $300.  I learned about the Johnson County elementary state around 1/9/2007.  I got a vmail & email from Pam Clark about it.  That was the earliest i heard of this.  At that point, I was already committed to hiring a pairing official on 3/3/2007 & hosting a border wars qualifier on 3/24/2007.  That is the facts, you can speculate all you'd like, but that's how it went down.

You and others are so bent out of shape about there being 2 elementary state tournaments...and now you're ticked that there will be another tournament the same day as your elementary state.  Has anyone from Johnson County considered not hosting the elementary state this year?  I'm sure we can all work together on this and they can host it next year??  For the sake of the kids, let's get over the fact that there will be 2 elementary state tournaments this year...and move on.  If you send me a PM, i can forward you an email dated 12/15 that was a follow up email to the border wars people requesting our date of 3/24.

[wrestling mom 0]

Grapplehead is absolutely correct.  There may have been confusion and two state tournaments scheduled but I do not believe for one second the 2nd tournament on March 24 at Conner was already planned.  Pam Clark had absolutely no authority to call any state elementary meeting. Coach Matney was fairly elected president at the Mccreary state tournament. Pam Clark would have known this had some people not been spending time worring about running off one of the finest gentlemen and coaches in the state, Justin Bozeman.  We made sure eastern Kentucky supported her tournament.  Coach Matney was more than busy with a  wife's difficult first pregnancy and state semi final football team and will admit to being a poor communicator at times.  Neither Pat Lee or Stan Martin ever contacted him until the announcement was made of the state elementary tournament at Johnson Central.  Pam Clark did contact him and a simple reply was made.  Check the postings and see for yourself which state tourney was listed first.  Eastern Kentucky is used to being stepped on, we are used to always having to drive to tournaments but we perservere and will continue to beat all the odds and put out champions.

I am sure coach Matney would do anything to help anyone in the sport of wrestling but this has turned into a most difficult dilema.

[Pinking 0]

Pat haven't you had Border Wars at Conner around the same time ever year for the last Three or Four?

[Ranger123 43]

Pat haven't you had Border Wars at Conner around the same time ever year for the last Three or Four?

Yes.  Not sure what year he started, but at least the last 2 years it has been in that same timeframe.

[wrestling mom 0]

How interesting you use the words ....time frame.

[Ranger123 43]

How interesting you use the words ....time frame.

I don't know about interesting.  I just don't know the exact dates because I haven't attended or been involved with the meet.  I did go last season and remember it being before my son's birthday.  I just looked it up and it was March 11 last season.  I remember looking at the results the previous year and it was relatively close to the same date.  The only significance to the words time frame are it was probably a month that started with the letters M-A-R-C-H.  It could have been the first week of April one year, I don't know.  I'm sure Coach Lee can't just reserve the gym for the same weekend forever.  Like most wrestling programs he probably has to work around other schedules.

[eville dad 17]

How bout one of the two tournaments considering moving one week and the kids can have two more events to attend?

Can either of you move your event one week, it will probably help attendance at both events?

A little advice: Dont hash it out on here, haha all of this has been blown way out of proportion already, its the battle of the east vs the rest, cmon cant we all just get along!

[wrestlewatcher 3]

How interesting you use the words ....time frame.

My kids have attended this tournament for the past two years.  They do this as a fund-raiser and if they felt that it would conflict with the JC version of the State Tournament they wouldn't do it.....too much time and energy goes into this to have a tournament with no attendance.  Wrestlers come from OH, IN, MI and KY and other states to this tournament.  A lot of older kids come to it too.  

It's time to quit coming in here and stirring the pot........there are 2 state tournaments.  Some will go to Conner and some will go to JC.  I respect all teams decisions in regards to which one they will attend......whether that be for scheduling purposes, geographic preferences, or whatever.  More than anything I hope that the kids do well.  Come on now-big group hug....

[Ranger123 43]

My kids have attended this tournament for the past two years.  They do this as a fund-raiser and if they felt that it would conflict with the JC version of the State Tournament they wouldn't do it.....too much time and energy goes into this to have a tournament with no attendance.  Wrestlers come from OH, IN, MI and KY and other states to this tournament.  A lot of older kids come to it too.  

It's time to quit coming in here and stirring the pot........there are 2 state tournaments.  Some will go to Conner and some will go to JC.  I respect all teams decisions in regards to which one they will attend......whether that be for scheduling purposes, geographic preferences, or whatever.  More than anything I hope that the kids do well.  Come on now-big group hug....

Thanks for the hug.  I feel better already.

[plee 0]

I don't know about interesting.  I just don't know the exact dates because I haven't attended or been involved with the meet.  I did go last season and remember it being before my son's birthday.  I just looked it up and it was March 11 last season.  I remember looking at the results the previous year and it was relatively close to the same date.  The only significance to the words time frame are it was probably a month that started with the letters M-A-R-C-H.  It could have been the first week of April one year, I don't know.  I'm sure Coach Lee can't just reserve the gym for the same weekend forever.  Like most wrestling programs he probably has to work around other schedules.

Ranger - thank you for pointing this out.  Yes, we've ran this tournament 4 times now, the first time in October, the last 3 times in March.  Yes, I have to schedule this gym well in advance around girls basketball regionals, cheerleading competitions, spring break, and other conflicting events in our area (there are a couple of Indiana & Ohio tourneys around the March-April timeframe in our area).  I also scheduled this tournament around what I believed was the date of the elementary state tourney - 3/3/07.  There is no way i can wait until mid january to request a date for the gym in March.  If i do that, i'll be lucky to get a Saturday.  I found out about the JC tourney on 1/9/07.  I had already scheduled our gym & signed a contract with the border wars people.

wrestling mom - believe what you want.  i know i can't reschedule my events without losing money, so that's not an option for us.  perhaps you guys can?  if you guys just scheduled it 1-2 weeks earlier....it would make things better for both of us i believe.  i can prove that i scheduled our events before i heard anything about the 3/24/07 elementary state at JC if you're interested in the facts.

[wrestling mom 0]

Very very well said wrestling watcher!

[kdsmith27 14]

How interesting you use the words ....time frame.

Wrestling Mom, apparently you have a big chip on your shoulders!!!!  What you are doing is not for the kids, but for your own appeasement. I never knew that we were having a war with east and west.

[SpartanMom 0]

I certainly do hope we can put this behind us and get on with wrestling.  I will be the first to agree with Wrestling Mom--I did not have the authority to call a state meeting, but nobody has that authority at the moment.  We have a president, but we have not taken any additional steps to organize so we are no better off than we have been--I sincerely hope that changes this year so we can avoid this in the future.  The absolute only reason I set the meeting was because several coaches had called me or e-mailed me to see what was going on--after being asked to get something going on more than one occassion I did set a meeting day and time.  I am sorry that has created conflict, but it should not have done so--that was a choice someone else made.  I did make several attempts to contact Coach Matney (I know he had a lot on his plate at the time), but there was no response, simple or otherwise, and we took no response as a response itself--certainly if I could go back in time I would do it differently, but it should not have been an issue. 

We also travel everywhere we go--most programs do.  Unlike other programs, both east and north, we have NO ONE to wrestle without traveling so I can understand that.  I will not, however support a split on this issue--we need to STOP all of this us vs. them bickering and consider the children.  I can't believe a group of adults have resorted to this.  This will be my last post on the issue, but I do want everyone to know that our meeting and decisions were not done in secret--we did not try to hide anything--and our results were posted on this web site soon after the meeting (complete with who attended and detailed minutes).  At that point that should have taken care of tournament decisions for this year--no question.  If we want to build our elementary program we must organize and do it right.  Slinging mud is not in my interest level at the moment.  I want the kids to be able to advance in the sport.  I want our high school wreslters to be national champions--I want us to remember why we are doing this in the first place!

[SheHateMe 0]

On the plus side.  While going through all of this it seems that ALMOST all of us are on the same page.  I have a lot of hope now for the future of the youth program in Kentucky.  It has been a headache but things are looking up.  Thanks to all the active and proactive people getting things going in the right direction.

[ekybigman 0]

I too hope that we can all get on the same page concerning elementary wrestling. I do not think that having a meeting attached to one of the disputed tournaments is a method to all get on the same page. I am concerned that we are moving farther apart.

[SheHateMe 0]

I too hope that we can all get on the same page concerning elementary wrestling. I do not think that having a meeting attached to one of the disputed tournaments is a method to all get on the same page. I am concerned that we are moving farther apart.

No the state for the most part has unified from what I can tell.  My referencing the few that haven't would have implied you and a few from that one program.  One program that won't get on board.  I don't agree with everything.  None of us ever will.  But by working together we will build and end up with a quality program.  Not everyone agrees with the middle school organization but through it all and everyone going in the same direction we have built a quality program.  There aren't many states out there that have a true MS state tournament.  This is a big accomplishment for Kentucky as Kentucky isn't exactly a mecca for wrestling.  We are on the cusp of building a similar quality organization for the elementary kids.  We can continue to work at this without JC but it sure would be nice if we had your input.

[Wrestlersgram 0]

I would like to reply about Coach Bozeman. I have personally known the man for quiet a few years. As well I have known Pam Clark for a number of years. Lady if you think he is so great then why don't we have high state winners? Take him over to your camp for awhile. We have elementary state champs and we have middle school champs but, where are the high school champs. I have been around the block and I know who started wrestling in McCreary. It happened to be a young gentlemen by the name of Greg Holtzneck. He started wrestling at our middle school. Pam Clark was the one to organize the elementary program. There were others to help. Let's just get over it and get on.