Why isn't state going to be seeded?

[gator1 32]

3 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

1.  First thing that has to happen is that all results must be put in, and be put in relatively quickly along with updating the records portion of track.  

2.  KHSAA must require this, and have consequences for not doing so like in other sports. 

3.  A criteria must be set up that rewards who you wrestled and defeated.  

We already have all 3 of these requirements met for regional seeding the week before states.  This isn't anything new. 

As for ducking, this is a poor reason to avoid seeding.  It's an unfortunate byproduct but will only work to the detriment of the teams that duck in the longterm. 

[GentleBeard 145]

If you want people to update results in track, then use track as criteria as a way to seed it. If coaches don’t put in their results, seeding criteria, or records, then it falls on them not the “system”. 

I grew up in a state that wrestles for true 2nd. Those matches are always tough, but my perspective may be a minority. It’s the closest thing to a true double elimination bracket that we could have. I like it. We will never have such a thing in Kentucky, though.

At the end of the day, “seeding” is really all about bracket placement. No better way to get separated from who you want to wrestle later in the tournament than by wrestling head to head prior to the tournament. 

 

[Elite Training Center KY 37]

Let's look at the weights 

106-Wells hasn't wrestled anyone in top 5 as far as I know but Koller who he controlled at WCI 10-2 or so and should finish undefeated until state. Cornwell has beat Roman but lost to Koller and union. Roman dominated Koller twice before pinning. So top 5 guys based on that flip a coin on seeds. 

113-Birk set his place as the 1 pretty clear (but not a lock imo) and flip a coin for next 3 guys on seeds.

120 clear number 1 and imo a lock for Landon. Flip a coin for next 3 guys

126 clear number 1 and lock for Raney. Flip a coin for next 4-5 guys

132 clear number 1 and lock for Raney. Flip a coin for next 2 guys. (Reeves is probably a clear 2 but not 1000% sold)

138 this is the first weight seeding could be a impact. TJ and Whorton are clear 1-2 seed and big gap after. 
 

144 Jenkins clear number 1 as of now. Flip coin for next 3-4 guys. 
 

150 Miller clear 1 as of now. Flip a coin for next 5-6 guys. Millers 9-8 match with Wojo shows the depth at 150. 
 

157 clear number 1 in malachia. Flip coin for next 4 guys. Faucett could spladle his way to a title

165 put matney at 1 but honestly flip a coin for seeding on 1-5. 
 

175 put Seth at 1 but again flip a coin for 1-4 at this weight

190 Clear 1 and 2 with Lane and Uriah. This is the Second weight seeding would help of 14. 

215 Jack at 1 next couple guys flip a coin

Hwt Carter at 1 and again, next couple guys flip a coin. 
 

I went off of Rangers rankings on these so could be upsets recent that changes this ,but if so, It only makes my point more. Of the 14 weights, I see 2 that have a clear 1 and 2 guy. Of one of those It might be better to get third so less people watch Raney do what he does lol. I don't think seeding is that big of a deal as of yet. 

 

[DrBaker 497]

Every sport does it. Most wrestling tourneys do it. If ironman and Super32 can do it, then we can do it here. Seeding the 8 regional champs will make it even worse. There are times the top 3 in a weight are in the same region. If you run from competition, just to keep a good record, it will do no good according to track. 

[Team1 5]

3 hours ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

Let's look at the weights 

106-Wells hasn't wrestled anyone in top 5 as far as I know but Koller who he controlled at WCI 10-2 or so and should finish undefeated until state. Cornwell has beat Roman but lost to Koller and union. Roman dominated Koller twice before pinning. So top 5 guys based on that flip a coin on seeds. 

113-Birk set his place as the 1 pretty clear (but not a lock imo) and flip a coin for next 3 guys on seeds.

120 clear number 1 and imo a lock for Landon. Flip a coin for next 3 guys

126 clear number 1 and lock for Raney. Flip a coin for next 4-5 guys

132 clear number 1 and lock for Raney. Flip a coin for next 2 guys. (Reeves is probably a clear 2 but not 1000% sold)

138 this is the first weight seeding could be a impact. TJ and Whorton are clear 1-2 seed and big gap after. 
 

144 Jenkins clear number 1 as of now. Flip coin for next 3-4 guys. 
 

150 Miller clear 1 as of now. Flip a coin for next 5-6 guys. Millers 9-8 match with Wojo shows the depth at 150. 
 

157 clear number 1 in malachia. Flip coin for next 4 guys. Faucett could spladle his way to a title

165 put matney at 1 but honestly flip a coin for seeding on 1-5. 
 

175 put Seth at 1 but again flip a coin for 1-4 at this weight

190 Clear 1 and 2 with Lane and Uriah. This is the Second weight seeding would help of 14. 

215 Jack at 1 next couple guys flip a coin

Hwt Carter at 1 and again, next couple guys flip a coin. 
 

I went off of Rangers rankings on these so could be upsets recent that changes this ,but if so, It only makes my point more. Of the 14 weights, I see 2 that have a clear 1 and 2 guy. Of one of those It might be better to get third so less people watch Raney do what he does lol. I don't think seeding is that big of a deal as of yet. 

 

[Elite Training Center KY 37]

58 minutes ago, DrBaker said:

Every sport does it. Most wrestling tourneys do it. If ironman and Super32 can do it, then we can do it here. Seeding the 8 regional champs will make it even worse. There are times the top 3 in a weight are in the same region. If you run from competition, just to keep a good record, it will do no good according to track. 

Personally I don't think you can look at one off national tournaments like Super 32 or Ironman as examples. National level guys from 30 different states aren't gonna hurt state seeds. I'm in the heat of battle up here in Iowa in a state that seeds EVERYONE and it's miserable. All the teams including the best teams in the state couple top 50 in COUNTRY teams are forfeiting and ducking to protect seeds.

Literally 2 weights have clear 1 and 2 guys right now in Kentucky. One of those weights the 1 is probably 10 points better on a bad day than the number 2. Seeding isn't something that's hurting Kentucky due to having decent depth from guys 1-5. I am all for seeding if there is big bonus to wrestling good in state comp and little down side if you lose to other high level guys. Idk how that all works on track wrestling. I still don't think it's needed (YET). 

[grappler-of-old 44]

1 hour ago, DrBaker said:

. Seeding the 8 regional champs will make it even worse. There are times the top 3 in a weight are in the same region.. 

If top three are from same region then the champion would get the 1st seed then the other 2 would automatically be on the other side of the bracket and meet in the semi finals. All four qualifiers from a region are in separate quarter brackets. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

8 hours ago, gator1 said:

We already have all 3 of these requirements met for regional seeding the week before states.  This isn't anything new. 

As for ducking, this is a poor reason to avoid seeding.  It's an unfortunate byproduct but will only work to the detriment of the teams that duck in the longterm. 

If this was true then how was it that all wrestlers from a certain team only had about 5 matches when they went to the state tournament during COVID? What is the consequences? Look at track now do all teams have their events updated? 

How do you seed when teams spend most of their season out of state like many of the Nky teams do?  Mostly because they don't want to travel 2 hours every weekend to wrestle in Lou and Lex. I know my parents and wrestlers love when we are in Ohio because they can sleep an extra hour and their family can make the short trip across the river. Not to mention the school enjoys the lower travel cost. 

There are several reason I don't like the idea of seeding, most of which have already been mentioned. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

What is wrong with having a few exciting matches in the semi's and quarters. Keeps the whole tournament exciting.  Having an athlete move up or down one spot in placement ultimately is not a big deal. 

[Elite Training Center KY 37]

8 hours ago, grappler-of-old said:

What is wrong with having a few exciting matches in the semi's and quarters. Keeps the whole tournament exciting.  Having an athlete move up or down one spot in placement ultimately is not a big deal. 

1000% Agree. People want to say "look at other sports" well other sports like basketball and football don't get the chance to fight back for 3rd-8th. Only thing that matters is 1st. 

[Parrott Wing 1]

19 hours ago, Elite Training Center KY said:

Indiana use to do true second for middle school (maybe they still do idk) and It was terrible. Just get better and don't lose in quarters is all I can say. Realistically what's the difference between second and third.

Bingo, can't be a state champ anyway unless you beat the top guys, so what's it matter if it's in the quarters, semis, or heck even the first round. Good friend of mine made a mistake our senior year and had to wrestle the eventual champ second round. Didn't hear him complain once, he owned it, lost in a tight one and wrestled all the way back to get 3rd. This late in the year there is only win or lose no more no less, doesn't matter how ugly the wins are either W's are still W's in the long run.

[grappler-of-old 44]

12 hours ago, DrBaker said:

Every sport does it. 

Arguably the most important sport to KHSAA does not seed. (Basketball)

[rjs4470 103]

On 1/29/2024 at 2:18 PM, gator1 said:

So how can we get this changed?  It's not too late, and these kids deserved an opportunity for the fairest and most accurate outcome, even if it's a little more work for coaches.  I'd also like to see the best state finals possible, not a bunch of lopsided wins. 

This is just silly.  Every sport at every level is looking for a champ in the playoffs, you still seed.

I feel the event should be seeded too, but the KHSAA literally doesn’t seed any state tournament, except to a certain extent, football. All other state tournaments are random draws.