Western Hills Tournament

[wrestlingfanatic 0]

what were the results at 135?

[pld103 0]

What were the results for 112 and 119?

[#1fan 0]

was there anybody good there at 103? who won?

[hardknox08 0]

was king fromNH wrestling 125? did he beat out jason green for varsity or what?

[Cmlswrstlng 0]

yeah King was varsity 125 and Wilbanks didnt look too bad in his match against Shotwell but he kinda gassed by the end

[southern135 0]

becasue he is ranked and we go heads up trusday i did know if he was over rated are what i have never seen him so i dont know

[thomam 11]

Willbanks went 3-2 losing 4-7 to Eck and I believe 11-7 to Shotwell.

[southern135 0]

Willbanks went 3-2 losing 4-7 to Eck and I believe 11-7 to Shotwell.

OK thank you i am trying to do a Lil bit of homework  Lil

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

The Western Hills Tournament(WHT) was the most poorly run wrestling tournament I have ever witnessed. If we want advance the sport in Kentucky, we must start showing more respect for the wrestlers, parents and fans. Like many tournaments in Kentucky, they seldom start on time, are often poorly organized and usually, but not always, only filled with the obligatory spectators such as parents. Unless one has a child in the sport, what spectator wants to spend all day in a gym waiting hours(>12) with no PREDICTABLE time to see their favorite athlete wrestle.

The WHT had 10 teams with 14 wrestlers each. That's 140 wrestlers, not including all the JV wrestlers. Each varsity wrestler had five 6 minute matches with no bracket elimination. Thats 700 matches on just 3 mats. This did not include the several hundred JV matches. The tournament was schedulled to start at 10:30, but did not start until nearly Noon. Wrestling was still going on after 11:30PM. Call it poor planning if you want, I call it lack of respect for the sport.

Some schools had to travel 2 hours to get to Frankfort and were on the road in buses at 6 AM. After wrestling all day, buses were leaving after Midnight for the journey home. Remember, school bus drivers also had to remain there all day. Not what I consider an ideal situation.

Despite all of the above, the wrestlers looked pretty sharp and we did get to witness some strong wrestling.

I realize an incredible amount of effort and time is required to host a major tournament. I suggest the coaches place rigid guidelines and rules and follow them. For example, give rosters the night before the tournament. If the wrestler doesn't make weight etc, too bad that is an empty bracket. No Saturday morning changes. If a star quarterback sprains his ankle on Thursday, does that mean the Friday night game must be delayed while changes are made? How many Kentucky basketball games start 1.5 hours late - NONE. Have any of us witnessed the Ky State Championship Tournament delayed for hours? Of course not. We must continue to mandate higher standards NOT only our wrestlers as athletes,  but also for ourselves as coaches, parents and spectators as advocates for the advancement of wrestling in Ky.

[kdsmith27 14]

I-pinned-em-all,

I can understand your displeasure with the length of the tournament, But this will not discourage wrestlers. although it was extremely long, we got what we went for " Matches". Brent was very apologetic for the delays, and I also have been there before with my first tournament. I can guarantee you it will be a better run tournament next year. He knows what needs to be done now to fix it.

By the way, there were 13 teams.

I have posted a email from Brent in reference to his tournament. I for one, am incourage to see other high schools put on tournaments.

Coaches:

  First and foremost I would like to apologize to you and your parents for the very lengthy day of wrestling and the initial delay in getting started.  To say that I showed my inexperience in hosting a wrestling tournament is an understatement that I realize fits me all too well at this point.  I would like to express my appreciation to you and your parents for your patience and understanding in times of confusion and for your flexibility when trying to get everyone matches.  While the JV did not work out as I had anticipated, there is no question that I think we all were able to see enough matches to get a grasp on where our wrestlers are at this point.  I appreciate the constructive feedback I received from all of you in regards to improving the format next season.  While I do not want to look too far into the future, next year we will add a 4th mat and will likely move into a pool style duals tournament, where it will be up to the coaches to match up JV

[Mathound 4]

I think the tournament was ran ok. It was his first tournament and this was a big tournament to be ran for your first time.

Look at this way:

Most of all varsity kids got 5 matches.

Most Junior Varsity kids got at least 2.

Wrestlers saw some good competition.

Wrestlers got to see a preview of where they stand right now.

Parents got to see why their kids spend 2 hours at practice everyday.

[Guest cmccoy]

I agree 100% with Mathound. I have ran many tournaments in the past and it is not easy. I think Coach Tackett did a great job. No, I did not leaving at Midnight but my kids got some good wrestling in and that is why we go to wrestling tournaments right...to wrestle. I think people should stop bad mouthing tournament directors until you do one yourself and see the work and stress it takes.

[plee 0]

I agree 100% with Mathound. I have ran many tournaments in the past and it is not easy. I think Coach Tackett did a great job. No, I did not leaving at Midnight but my kids got some good wrestling in and that is why we go to wrestling tournaments right...to wrestle. I think people should stop bad mouthing tournament directors until you do one yourself and see the work and stress it takes.

I agree with you and mathound & keith smith as well.  Running a tournament is a very stressful and thankless job.  And we need more tournaments in this state...so kudos to Coach Tackett for putting in the effort to put on a good tournament.  No one should criticize this guy until you've walked a mile in his shoes!!  However, late starts and long hours is a problem....and we should all try to figure out this problem and help fix it.  Not just rip on people who fail trying to do a good thing.  I know someone, somewhere has some good "rule of thumbs" about how long a tournament will last.  I'm sure some experienced head coaches out there could have said up front "700 matches, on 3 mats.....PLUS JV matches!?  You won't get done before midnight!!"  There's got to be a way to estimate the timing of these things a little better.  Also, I can tell you from personal experience that it really helps when coaches from other teams check in with the tournament director and simply ask "do you need any help with anything?"  You may be surprised.

If you're considering running a tournament....I would recommend trying to get all the advice you can from some of the coaches who have ran many tournaments.  MOST of them (if not all) are very helpful and will offer some great advice.  Dan Upchurch has always been a big plus to our tournaments. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

I think that I will respond to each quote separately.

I realize an incredible amount of effort and time is required to host a major tournament. I suggest the coaches place rigid guidelines and rules and follow them. For example, give rosters the night before the tournament.

  This was done.  Most if not all coaches sent their rosters in.

If the wrestler doesn't make weight etc, too bad that is an empty bracket. No Saturday morning changes.

1.  Most teams already do this because they have full teams and no place to move the wrestler.

2.  Small teams with only 4-8 wrestlers have enough problems, and would run into more serious problems if their kids could not wrestle.

3.  Brackets must be changed if wrestlers are not there.  There are rules on where bye's can be placed

4.  There are always Saturday morning changes.

If a star quarterback sprains his ankle on Thursday, does that mean the Friday night game must be delayed while changes are made?

  Of course not it does not affect the start time if a kid is injured in football, BAD EXAMPLE

How many Kentucky basketball games start 1.5 hours late - NONE.

I'm not sure where you are from.  Bus problems, Officials late.  This occurs in basketball as well as wrestling.

Have any of us witnessed the Ky State Championship Tournament delayed for hours? Of course not.

This is because they allow several hours before wrestling begins.  Plus they are experts at this.

We must continue to mandate higher standards NOT only our wrestlers as athletes,  but also for ourselves as coaches, parents and spectators as advocates for the advancement of wrestling in Ky.

I have no problem with this.  This tourney may have run long, but I believe that most of the coaches already knew this when they signed up for it.  This was an opener and all they wanted to do is wrestle.

The idea of possibly making it a dual tourney was discussed, but most of the coaches wanted to wrestle.  With the dual tourney those that wrestled the teams with small squads would get mostly forfeits and this is not what they wanted.

[I-pinned-em-all 0]

Perhaps in my fatigued and grumpy state I was too harsh on WTH coaches. I do applaud their efforts and I sincerely believe their intent was most genuine. It is not just about wrestling alot of matches, athlete safety is paramount. As a former wrestler and coach, I have walked in similar shoes therefore I am both empathetic toward the WHT coaches, as well as concerned about wrestler safety.  One can not underestimate the unnecessary detriment of fatigue on young adolescent athletes. Many of these athletes awoke at 5AM, had wrestled 4 matches, sat in a gym beginning at 8 AM, only then to wrestle their most competitive championship match at nearly midnight. Although I do appreciate the intent, I don't believe this was a proud moment in Kentucky wrestling. There must be a balance between wrestling and safety.  Objectively, these athletes were most susceptible to adversity under these circumstances. Prior to undertaking such an enormous, admirable endeavor, I encourage consultative input from more experienced coaches and tourney organizers - no need to reinvent the wheel.  I very sincerely appreciate the efforts and intent of the WHT coaches and organizers. I believe we should strive to improve rather than just console.

Nevertheless, we did get to witness some great wrestling and I believe next years tourney will be better.

[eville dad 17]

This topic has been discussed on this forum before but we still dont have guidelines in place for hosting high school wrestling tournaments. The USAW has very detailed guidelines on how to host a tournament, I believe the same is true of AAU. Has any of the organizations regulating High School wrestling provided any guidelines to be used as a guide? Something along the lines of how to calculate the total time projected for a tournament based on number of matches, number of mats, number of breaks etc...

How many mats needed based on number of wrestlers?

How many wrestlers per mat, 50-60-75 90?

What is the practical amount of time to complete a tournament? At what point does it need to become a two day event?

How many refs relative to the number or mats?

What is the average time per match?

Most effective staging methods to reduce down time between matches?

How many breaks?

How many tournaments did you attend last year that operated manually by hand vs using the software?

When I was a kid all the tournaments were done by hand but I never paid any attention to it then, I had often wondered "How did they do it back in the day". Well I saw a tournament conducted manually by hand last year in IN, it was very cool to see it all done without any computers or printers. Just poster boards created into grids by wt to record the results and brackets competed as they went along, bout cards created as the brackets were filled in. Does anyone have directions for operating a tournament by hand?

[oldman52 0]

I think personally doing a tourney in bracket style is much easier by hand especially if each teams info is turned in ahead of time..  Having worked a few middle school tournaments when i was in college it seemed to be pretty much effortless if you have like 4 people to make brackets and bout sheets. (given each person has an idea of what their doing.)  As I think anybody that has hosted a tournament know that after the brackets are made and the first round is completed it pretty much falls into place.  I just think that as tournament managers we sometimes overlook the intermission periods, and no matter how much planning is put into a tournament there always seems to be small aggravating problems that come out of nowhere..  (If anybody has a fix for these problems please fill me in)    Otherwise...  I think as men of the sport we should applaud anybody to takes the responsibility of hosting a good size tourney...

[grappler-of-old 44]

As a representative of the olden days I prefer to run a tourney by hand.  

I think it makes it easier if there are changes.  The only downfall is getting copies made of the brackets and scores quickly.  You must transfer them to a computer to send my e-mail.

[Josh_Claywell 52]

Brent Tackett and Derek Nesselrode are both class acts. I had the privilege of working with them all last season when I worked at the Frankfort paper. Brent is a heckuva guy, and I can promise you that next year's tournament will be much better.

I don't think WH ever hosted anything like this last year, so it was an entirely new experience for both Brent and Derek.