Tournament improvements

[grappler-of-old 44]

You still have places and or coaches that don't keep very good records, are the only coach, and at a school where the school cares less about the team.  Even though I may be efficient in technology and keep decent records the rest apply to myself.

It's kind of gotten off topic here.  I truly don't think the seeding meeting is the problem.  If the other things we talked about here.  Tote board, fewer breaks, shorter breaks, extra official, and a competent scorer on the computer (I still think I can run the tourneys more effectively manually).  The seeding would not be an issue.

The only reason there are seeding meeting is because of team points, and I have expressed my opinion on team points numerous times on here.  Get rid of them.

[grappler-of-old 44]

If you don't make weight you should not be able to wrestle.  Why are we allowing kids to not keep commitments, but still be allowed to compete.  Coaches need to send in the roster, and if there is a scratch that is one thing, but if your kid doesn't make weight because he wasn't disciplined enough to do it, he should be dropped out of the tournament.

Wow I totally disagree on this one.  Small teams that are struggling to get wrestlers would be damaged terribly for this.

Many time in the past if this rule was in effect I would have had to turn around and come home, because the 2 or 3 wrestlers that I had did not make wt. It's hard enough to convince the school that I need $100 every week for tournament fees and a bus for only 4 kids.  Let alone go to a tourney and almost half the team not wrestle.  When you only have 3 or 4 kids on a team this is a huge possibility

[kdsmith27 14]

I use a software program from preferred Education called Wrestling Tourney v 7.0. I'll admit the first year we used it we had problems. But I thought last years Trojan Invitational went very well, with little down time. Manual is OK, but computer is so much more efficient, and you need less workers.

[plee 0]

I think this is common sense. However you run into situations where a true stud does not make wt. and bumps up a wt. class(because the team has an opening) and he messes up that bracket.  I like the tourneys where they ask for 2 or 3 kids that need to be split and go, no true seeding. Actually I would not mind if they blind drew all the tourneys except the region, since it is the one that really counts.

If you dont make weight you should not be able to wrestle.  Why are we allowing kids to not keep commitments, but still be allowed to compete.  Coaches need to send in the roster, and if there is a scratch that is one thing, but if your kid doesnt make weight because he wasnt disciplined enough to do it, he should be dropped out of the tournament.

About the online seeding, each team should either send their info in on the forum or email or fax the info to the tournament director.  The director should then add it to the forum.  That way everyone knows why wrestler A is seeded above wrestler B.  If a kid gets hurt or scratched, there should be a twenty minute or so meeting at the conclusion of weighins to verify the seeds.  This is what my school did and it worked out great.  Dont allow the coaches to argue over seeds at that 20 minute meeting.  Seed 1 alternate and bump him in and everyone else up one spot to fill it.

I would agree with you on not letting the kids that don't make weight wrestle....if it was a major inconvenience, but the truth is, it's easy enough to either put them in a spot where there's a bye or just pigtail them in the next upper weight class.  The other problem is, scales fluxuate or a kid counts on floating off a little more weight than what happens.  It happens sometimes.  If there's room to bump them up, i say just move them up to the next weight class.  As far as it throwing off the brackets, that's unfortunate...it will sometimes happen...but not that often.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Thanks plee;

I thought I was going to be alone on this one.  :-D

[5291234 0]

Making weight is part of the sport.  At the state tournament (even if they are defending state champ) and do not make weight they are done.

Seeding of kids-  If for example the number one seed does not make weight he is disqualified.  2 goes to one/3goes to 2/ 4goes to 3 and during the seeding meeting that takes place the days prior, you go ahead a seed a five just is case.  The new wrestler that takes the place of the kid who did not make weight is now seeded five.

By doing this the seeding is cut and dry and you will save time on the day of wreslting where the fans don't have to sit there.

[bulldog-leader 56]

Making weight is part of the sport.  At the state tournament (even if they are defending state champ) and do not make weight they are done.

This however is a tournament that the wrestler had to qualify for. And the only tournament with this stipulation.

The 2 or 3 times we went to tourneys that required names at wt. classes or no one could be added to the wt. class. I used the TBA method at every wt. class.  With a small team and wrestlers that have several team members that are not dedicated I need to do this for those few that are dedicated. This caused the scratch meeting to be longer than needed to be.

If I were to not have the non dedicated kids on the team I would have even fewer members on the team and lose the team all together. 

[Ranger123 43]

This however is a tournament that the wrestler had to qualify for. And the only tournament with this stipulation.

The 2 or 3 times we went to tourneys that required names at wt. classes or no one could be added to the wt. class. I used the TBA method at every wt. class.  With a small team and wrestlers that have several team members that are not dedicated I need to do this for those few that are dedicated. This caused the scratch meeting to be longer than needed to be.

If I were to not have the non dedicated kids on the team I would have even fewer members on the team and lose the team all together. 

I think that is ok.  You send in the lineup that you expect and if guys don't make their weight then they are not seeded.  Don't spend and hour (or 2) trying to fix and re-seed the brackets.  Just bump them to an open spot in the weight class above.

[rbm 1]

I just posted this on another state forum but it really seems to fit this thread about running tournaments. 

We run a large youth wrestling tournament in southern Maine.  It started as our Jr High invitational (about 200-300 kids).  We ran out of room at the school and rented the gymnasium at Univ of NH with the agreement that we would invite kids from outside of Maine (especially NH kids).  That was in 1994.  After that, we moved to the UNH hockey new arena and then to the Cumberland County Civic Center in Maine.  We are up to 1200 kids now and it is unofficially considered to be the New England championships for Kindergarten through grade 8.  It is a blast!  We run on 14 to 16 half-mats (which really stinks, but we have been trying to keep in on one day), but it's a full double elimination, usually around 100 weight classes (Madison type pairing), 4 divisions (Kindergarten and Grades 1/2 separated but in one division, grades 3/4, grades 5/6 and grades 7/8.  It's an individual tournament (individual medals) but has team scoring and team awards for each division.

Things that I think are key to our tournament's success

Pre-registration with a total number cutoff .  Even though that number is 1200, we turn away a several teams each year.

Absolutely no additions or substitutions after the cutoff date .  The cutoff is two weeks before the tournament but we are always full before that; even teams that had got in cannot add kids or substitute after the cutoff.  We know that we will have a good number of no-shows (up to 10-12% so we actually accept about 1300 to 1350 registrations.  In the past, teams that didn't get in because they tried to register too late would call around and get their kids in open spots on other teams at the last minute.  That could really mess up our planning if all 1350 kids showed up.  So, no more substitutions - period.

Optional - but highly recommended - weigh-ins the night before for all divisions.  We split the tournament with K-4 from 9:00 to about 12:30 (so they can also weigh in from 7-8 the day of the tournament) and grades 5-8 starting at noon (so they can also weigh in from 10-11 that morning).  We typically weigh-in 75% or more on the night before.  We don't do any weight allowances whether they weigh in the night before of the morning of the tournament.

Madison weight, determined the morning of the tournament.  Very, very few byes that way and we know in advance how many brackets we will have (that tells us how many medals we need etc.)

We don't seed except to keep teammates separated.  We ask for seeding info for the Jr High kids only and use that to keep the "best" wrestlers in different sides of the bracket.

Split tournament.  Like I mentioned above, K-4 from 9-12 or 12:30, 5-8 from 12-whenever (usually finish around 7:30 or 8 if we don't have any problems).

As many certified refs as we can get.  We try to get 50% more than the number of mats (half-mats) we have.  We usually run 16 half-mats at once, so we try to get 24 refs, and as many of them as possible are certified refs - we do use some college wrestlers (mostly former Marshwood wrestlers) if we need to, but only ones that we are very comfortable with.  Good refs = fewer arguments and fewer injuries = shorter tournament and more fun for everyone.

Separate area for awards, or awards handed out on the mats.  We do not stop the tournament to have awards ceremonies.  We try to have a separate room (LARGE room) of one end of the hockey rink for awards ceremonies for the younger kids.  They love getting on a podium!  As soon as a division is done, we send them all to that area for the awards. The last division is the Jr High and by then most people want to go home.  We hand out their awards , 1-4, on the mat as soon as they finish their medal match (the refs do it and we try to get them to "make a big deal of it" for parents to get pictures etc.).  Team awards for first 3 divisions handed out at their awards ceremonies and Jr High at the end.

NO planned breaks!  That's one reason why we have so many refs plus a Head Ref who is responsible for making sure they all get breaks (he also handles all referee calls questions or complaints)

Our coaches, parents and booster organization.  Incredible dedication and support. 

Our whole thing is run on a tournament program that we developed back in 1994 and have been tweaking it ever since (Tournament Plus).

There you go - ideas for running a tournament, a quick history lesson and a plug for the software.  Any questions?

[Ranger123 43]

Great ideas, especially for out-of-season meets!  And it sounds like a great tournament!  But some of those ideas cannot help a high school event, for example, weigh-ins the night before.  Also, with tight budgets and a shortage of officials, it is tough to get extra officials.

[dscicle 6]

Tournaments directors-Run your tournaments straight thru.  Maybe one 15min break one.

The only problem is really that you MUST have a minimum rest between matches. This really kills most tournaments. Also, the officials need to use the RR too.

[rbm 1]

Couldn't agree more with the rest for refs.  That's why we try for 50% more refs than mats.  It is a LONG day for them and we all know what they put up with.  Even if you have to supplement the refs with some college or really good high school wrestlers (younger kids tournaments only), you can get your older refs some time to eat and relax.

As far as the kids go, with High School, we follow the NFHS rest rules.  For the littler kids, we don't have a set rest period but leave it up to the coach (within reason).  Our tournament is usually so large that it doesn't become a concern, but when it does, we just tell the coach to let the ref know that his kid just wrestled "x" minutes ago and need a few more minutes rest.  They usually just hold off on that match and give it to them.  The NFHS 45 minute rule is just too much for the younger wrestlers.  They don't wrestle the full 2-2-2 minute rounds and seem to be ready to go much sooner.  This also keeps the day a little shorter for the parents (a big plus)

The biggest problems with scheduled breaks is that there is no such thing as "be back in 15 minutes".  You delay the tournament by a minimum of a half-hour and lose momentum.

[dscicle 6]

Actually, the Middle school association has set some modified rules on the rest periods. 30 minutes MINIMUM.

I know from experience, (i run all our middle school tournaments) that the computer person needs time to print out new bout sheets. for those of you who don' believe this, try it some time. the only reason i/we take a break is because either 1) the officials ask for it (always do what the officials say) or 2) the tournament needs to be stopped for the staff to catch up.

[overtimeking 0]

I think at the larger schools they could have mats for groups of wieghts to speed up the process like 103,112,119 on one mat so on and so on amke the ong days shorter and help wrestlers not get lazy between matches

[Southern112 0]

Couldn't agree more with the rest for refs.  That's why we try for 50% more refs than mats.  It is a LONG day for them and we all know what they put up with.  Even if you have to supplement the refs with some college or really good high school wrestlers (younger kids tournaments only), you can get your older refs some time to eat and relax.

As far as the kids go, with High School, we follow the NFHS rest rules.  For the littler kids, we don't have a set rest period but leave it up to the coach (within reason).  Our tournament is usually so large that it doesn't become a concern, but when it does, we just tell the coach to let the ref know that his kid just wrestled "x" minutes ago and need a few more minutes rest.  They usually just hold off on that match and give it to them.  The NFHS 45 minute rule is just too much for the younger wrestlers.  They don't wrestle the full 2-2-2 minute rounds and seem to be ready to go much sooner.  This also keeps the day a little shorter for the parents (a big plus)

The biggest problems with scheduled breaks is that there is no such thing as "be back in 15 minutes".  You delay the tournament by a minimum of a half-hour and lose momentum.

I give refs props...They have to ref the matches for HOURS at a time..it would be a heck of a job..