5 MATCH RULE

[Mike Calhoun 49]

I know this is a NFHS rule and KY follows the NFHS guidelines. But does any one have a good idea as to where and why this rule was started, what is its main purpose, does it actually help to achieve the purpose it was intended for, and why a forfeit applies to this rule?

[itiswhatitis 1]

I think the rule is stupid. What if a good wrestler wrestles all the way back but then meets the 5 match rule but was going to wrestle a kid he pins everytime easily then takes a loss. Not fair for the wrestler.

[FalconWrestling 147]

It is the same reason as why we have waiting periods between matches. If kids wrestle too much they will get tired and get hurt. Now in the Olympics and other International events the waiting period is around 10-15 minutes but those guys are also in incredible shape. We have kids who can't even finish an entire match

[New2Wrestling 3]

To me there are 2 issues here.   First- tourny's such as out at S. Oldham yesterday.  According to the t-shirts, 29 teams there, and each class had about 20 kids.   That's way too much for a 1-day tourny.     Second- if you were not seeded and continued to win- there was NO WAY you could place.  We had a kid go 4-1, not seeded, but won-won-and won, but due to the 5-match rule had to forefit in the placement round.  Sad sad rule.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

It is the same reason as why we have waiting periods between matches. If kids wrestle too much they will get tired and get hurt. Now in the Olympics and other International events the waiting period is around 10-15 minutes but those guys are also in incredible shape. We have kids who can't even finish an entire match

There is a time limit in between matches, understandable. But do the math 5 matches at a maximum of 6 minutes a piece equals no more than 30 minutes of wrestling for the day.....so let me ask you....how long and how often do your kids practice? I'm pretty sure it is more than 30 minutes. Are they given break periods during practice that are as long as the break periods required between matches? Your rationalization makes no sense to me.....we had two kids who had to forfeit their placing match because of this rule, one who had a match that he won due to forfeit and never actually physically wrestled a fifth time. Had their potential opponents also wrestled five times, I was told their matches wouldve been decided by coin flip.....seriously. But the other two had only wrestled four times and were automatically given the win by forfeit. Does any one know if any criteria actually exists besides a coin flip, doesnt sound right to me.

[bigedcoach 27]

When I orginal helped run the Dragon with Steve Fiser, If you lost in the first 2 rounds you wrestled for 7th place, that helped eliminate forfeits also it helped kids that never usually get to wrestle just 2 or 3 matches in one tourny to wrestle a couple more matches, great brackets for beginners that made their way on a varsity line up. I know the 5 match rule is a burden but it was added through an over sight committee with ama and the national federation. I believe it should be 6 and 30 . Unforunately its all about the liaibility today and I would rather have rules than no sport at all. Wrestling is tough and I believe it should be tough, but with good planning, you can go forward.

[Nkawtg 137]

Why the 5 match rule!!??

The real question is why plan a tourney where a kid can go 4-1 and not place. I would love to hear from some head coaches why they participate in such nonsense. This is the only thread or discussion I've ever heard that's critical of the 5 match rule. The rules are what the NFHS says they are. Why aren't we as a wrestling community following them by either limiting the brackets/teams or making it a two-day tournament?

Also, this may all be solved by instituting a point based system regulating the amount of matches kids get in a season. Ohio does, Pa does too, I'm

almost certain.

[Nkawtg 137]

The following is an interesting editorial on the subject.

The National Federation of State High School Associations (NFHS) mandates that a high school wrestler cannot compete in more than five matches on a given day. The rule is meant to protect the health and safety of high school athletes and is enforced nationally.

A wrestling match, especially a close, hard-fought one, puts a lot of physical and mental stress on the body. To go through five hard-nosed battles in a day is an enormous strain. More than that can significantly increase the chance of injury, especially in the developing bodies of high school wrestlers.

The rule is in place to protect and it does accomplish that goal. However, there are several issues with and arguments against the five-match limit.

The rule is most often seen enforced in consolation finals matches. Having to go through wrestle-backs means extra matches, and wrestlers can find themselves at the limit by the time they get to the third- or fifth-place match. This can be seen at several CT tournaments this year, most recently at the New Milford Invitational.

This situation poses several problems. First, if one wrestler is at the limit but the other is not, then he/she forfeits and the wrestler under the limit takes the higher place for no reason other than having not wrestled as much.

That can be hard for both wrestlers and coaches to accept, especially when they fought hard to come back through the consolation rounds. They want, and have earned, the right to compete for that place, regardless of how many matches they already had.

There are also several arguments against the five-match limit. Practices are often 2-3 hours, and five full matches is 30 minutes, so the feeling can be that high school wrestlers are (or should be) conditioned and physically prepared to compete for more than five matches in a day.

Also, at the collegiate level, there is no match limit. Wrestlers compete until they are knocked out, withdraw or reach the podium.

However, these arguments are not valid. Practice cannot be compared to a match, even if one trains to wrestle six matches a day. The mental and physical stress of a real competition, when something is on the line and winning and losing means something, takes a far larger toll on the body than any practice could.

Five hard-nosed, brawling wrestling matches is the limit for 99% of high school wrestlers. Think of any tough tournament you have been through and how you felt the next day. To ask more of one's body is usually too much.

As for the collegiate wrestlers, they are older and more physically and mentally mature. Their bodies can handle a heavier load than a high school wrestler's can. Furthermore, college teams often have only one competition a week, which means only one weigh-in and more rest and recovery time.

There is no way around the rule as it effectively serves an important purpose, and there are a few options for avoiding the problems it may pose.

Splitting large competitions into two days is the best option, as is done in the CIAC and ECC tournaments. However, financially and logistically, this is obviously not always possible.

The other widely-used option is to limit consolation rounds. Starting wrestle-backs after the championship quarterfinal round will keep wrestlers under the limit, but it knocks some out early. A young wrestler who needs experience or a good wrestler who has a bad match early could suffer when consolation rounds are cut.

The third option is to set a limit for the number of teams and/or participants per bracket so that you can have full wrestle-backs without reaching the limit. This usually means no more than eight wrestlers per weight.

One proposed alternative, in a discussion on Pin to Win's CT Wrestling forum, was a time limit rather than a match limit. The reasoning is that a quick pin is not equal to a six-minute match and thus should not be counted the same. A 30-minute maximum would hypothetically be the same limit but allow for more matches.

While good in theory, there are holes to this proposition, most notably what would happen if a wrestler were to hit the limit mid-match. There would also be the logistical concern, and burden, of tracking the mat time of every wrestler in a competition.

The five-match rule is not going to be changed. However, one aspect of it should amended. The rule should be rewritten so that if two wrestlers reach a consolation finals match and one is at the limit and the other isn't, there is a tie for that place rather than a forfeit. It is unfair to say one gets the higher place because he/she is not at the limit.

Like it or hate it, the five-match rule is an important part of high school wrestling. It serves an important purpose and keeps young athletes from overdoing it on the mat in a single day.

If you think you want to wrestle more than five competitive matches in a day, wrestle in college and drop your first match of a big tournament. Then see how much you like that five-match limit.

[bigedcoach 27]

 nta, you are right on why NHsf has this rule, and the easiest is planning and wrestle back for 7th makes a huge difference

[grappler-of-old 44]

there are several ways to run a tournament that has more than 10 teams.  (you can have 10 people in a bracket and still have 5 matches because of byes)

 

As Biged said. You can go with a first round loser bracket for 7th place.  (I don't personally like this one)

 

Or as many tournys have gone to;  A pool tourney.  You can have as many as 16 wrestlers in a bracket and still only have 5 matches.

It also garantee's more than 2 matches (if the bracket is full).  Ex.  look at the raider rumble.  Or how the state duals have been run. 

 

We are in the techno age.  Tournament directors and people running the computer should be able to run this type of tourney.  Even if it is a last minute change.  It's all on the computer for goodness sake.  A monkey with a little bit of training can do it. 

 

It kills me that tourneys can't be run on the computer.  I remember running tourneys on paper faster than some of the tourneys are ran today on the computer.  Biged I know you remember this era.  Very rarely were there any problems that were not fixed in 10 minutes or less. 

 

:::::The only change that needs to be made on the 5 match rule is if there is a forfiet.  Forfiets should not count toward the 5 match rule.

[Irish Wrestler 10]

I agree Goo.  The forfeit should not count  as a wrestled match.  I have seen to many kids not get to wrestle for a placement match because the won by forfeit in an earlier match. 

[bigedcoach 27]

there are several ways to run a tournament that has more than 10 teams.  (you can have 10 people in a bracket and still have 5 matches because of byes)

 

As Biged said. You can go with a first round loser bracket for 7th place.  (I don't personally like this one)

 

Or as many tournys have gone to;  A pool tourney.  You can have as many as 16 wrestlers in a bracket and still only have 5 matches.

It also garantee's more than 2 matches (if the bracket is full).  Ex.  look at the raider rumble.  Or how the state duals have been run. 

 

We are in the techno age.  Tournament directors and people running the computer should be able to run this type of tourney.  Even if it is a last minute change.  It's all on the computer for goodness sake.  A monkey with a little bit of training can do it. 

 

It kills me that tourneys can't be run on the computer.  I remember running tourneys on paper faster than some of the tourneys are ran today on the computer.  Biged I know you remember this era.  Very rarely were there any problems that were not fixed in 10 minutes or less. 

 

:::::The only change that needs to be made on the 5 match rule is if there is a forfiet.  Forfiets should not count toward the 5 match rule.

to be honest, the big time saving with computer scoring is bout sheets and scoring. I was one of the people who started computer scoring and I remembered the first pit falls. And I have been to hand scored tourneys that were disasters or they took sooo many breaks to fill out bout sheets. I like pool tourneys if the teams have full lineups. The advantage of wrestling to 7th place it gives your lesser kids a chance to wrestle a match or 2 more because he goes in a bracket with other lesser kids.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

to be honest, the big time saving with computer scoring is bout sheets and scoring. I was one of the people who started computer scoring and I remembered the first pit falls. And I have been to hand scored tourneys that were disasters or they took sooo many breaks to fill out bout sheets. I like pool tourneys if the teams have full lineups. The advantage of wrestling to 7th place it gives your lesser kids a chance to wrestle a match or 2 more because he goes in a bracket with other lesser kids.

But what if the tournament is poorly seeded and you have a decent wrestler get a bum draw and is paired with a number one in the first round?

[crazyotto 381]

Speaking from experience, if a kid has five good goes in one day he is wiped out. If he is not wiped out, then he has not had five good goes. This includes the required wait time between matches. I agree that kids would be set up for injury if required to wrestle more than five. As for poorly run events, don't return. Or do your best to get educated on the event well ahead of time and opt out if it seems to be poorly run. Sorry to be blunt.

[bigedcoach 27]

But what if the tournament is poorly seeded and you have a decent wrestler get a bum draw and is paired with a number one in the first round?

Sometime wrestling is just bad luck, still cant see how he didnt get 4th, I guess thats why Im waiting for the brackets to be posted.

[grappler-of-old 44]

You don't need teams with full lineups for pool tourneys. 

 

If you invite 16 teams you should have 4 pools.  You should average 13-14 in a wt. class.  that is at least 3 in each pool.

 

If you have 10 or less.  Go to 2 pools of 4-5. 

 

If you want the less talented kids to have more matches then take the 4th place finishers in each pool and wreslte. 

 

1s V 1s

2s v 2s

3s v 3s

4s v 4s

 

If the wt. class is full everyone gets 5 matches.

 

As for the hand printed tourneys.  If you have 2 people who know what they are doing then there is no need for breaks.

 

Biged With the hundreds of torneys we have done by hand.  I bet if the two of us did a tourney by hand we could do it faster or as fast as the computer, with the tourney running on time.

[firemans34 33]

Posted brackets will be available probably some time in June or July.....if they run them anything like Saturday.