J.W. 21 Report post Posted February 22, 2012 Not change for the sake of change. I have already given you the facts of people are losing weight 2 x in 1 year because of the way the allowance is used now, they would not do it if there was not the extra 2 lb incentive. It is easy to find out - the kids are honest - just ask them. That is reason enough. It is always better to improve before someone dies in a sauna suit instead of waiting until after. Ranger - I am not trying to create work for you or for other coaches, I am volunteering to do the extra work! I think that there is a ton of great work in this league and it should not be made more complicated for no / or wrong reasons, but in this case there are reasons. 1. Every tournament in Kentucky has weigh-ins - True. No extra work 2. Every weigh in is recorded on the KYSWA weigh-in sheet - True. No extra work. 3. An official signs off on the weight sheet - True. No extra work. 4. Tournament director has the copies of the weigh-ins - True. No extra work. 5. Someone would have to collect these, consolidate, sort and post a report by district of who is elegible for each weight class. (Extra-Work: I will do it for the entire league) No extra work for anyone else. I believe that there will always be wrestlers losing weight - not going to stop it. But for goodness sakes, to have a kid drop from 102 to 98 at the beginning of the season, and then have the league entice him to be able to wrestle some 92 pounders because he only has to lose 4 more lbs is the leagues fault, because he would not see it as an option at 6 lbs, but less than 5 is doable. Think it is not happening like this, ask the kids at the podium. They are always honest. Anyways - I tap out - it is your league and if you are not open to it in any way shape or form there is no reason to discuss. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
plantmanky1 58 Report post Posted February 23, 2012 JW i was enticed by your post to go back and look at my team this year and look at their weight plans for the year. (yes I have my kids do the same test that the high school does.) Guess what I found, We had a kid that wrestled in the 92lbs weight class this year at districts, that weight 105 lbs the day of his test. per his plan, he was allowed to lose the maximum 1.5% per week. this plan allowed him to be 92lbs by 12/17/11. (his first weight in at 92 lbs was 12/21/11, then again on 12/29/11 and 12/30/11.) Per his weight plan he could have been as low as 87lbs by districts (1/14/12.) Are you saying it was wrong for him to go 92lbs at districts? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
J.W. 21 Report post Posted February 23, 2012 No plantmanky I was not. I picked random weights when using the example and not targeting your kid or wrestler. Again I said I was done with this. Yours would be an exception and not the rule. Furthermore yours would have made the weight prior to the 2 lb allowance and would have been in tolerance of what the rule should be - key being that your kid actually made 92, but your case is not the case for all -- but you saying the same as the high school, there is a huge difference in growing levels between a 12 year old and an 18 year old, so I would imagine the system does not actually fit the same. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ranger123 43 Report post Posted February 23, 2012 It is not my league or any one individual or program's. It is an association. And I have said that I am open to making a change that will truly benefit the kids. plantman brought up a specific example and I probably had at least 4 or 5 more on my team alone. I believe there are nearly as many of these cases as the "100" who cut down at the end. By the way, I agree that a body fat test for middle school would likely be a little different and at least require a higher body fat %. On your 5 points... 1) correct 2) not true - actually, your team does not always use the KSWA form 3) most of the time, but not all - easy enough to fix 4) not true - I have only seen copies made at dual events 5) I appreciate the offer; should the association pass a bylaw to require something I may be giving you a call One last time, I am fine with making a change for good. No skin off my back to eliminate the 2 lb allowance. I don't think it will really change weight cutting one bit. It may change which kids are cutting weight, but no real fundamental change. If a kid/parent/coach has decided to cut weight, 2 extra pounds to make scratch by a certain date is not really a big deal (when they know they have to). As long as there are weight classes kids will cut the weight to make a lower one. That's the way it has been since the creation of the sport and always will be. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted February 24, 2012 I say having a kid lose over 10% of his natural weight for a weightclass is not a good thing but its the fleas with the dog,If one coach/kid/parent is going to take a size/strenght adavntage or what ever reason to drop that much weigh then its going to happen across the board. I think we have gotten out of control with all these small rules. just need to stream line the weight class process with one set of weight classes. Youth Wrestling should be about learning and development of our future stars. Save the big weight cutting for high school and college. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dixie Tino 3 Report post Posted February 29, 2012 What started off as a safety concern thread and has degenerated into bashing youth club programs. Let me just say that schools need clubs more than clubs need school programs. I do not think weight cutting is a big deal. tiltfor3....Nobody is "bashing youth club programs!" I feel Clubs have had a huge, positive impact on Middle School Wrestling in KY. I don't think anyone can deny that. But you're just saying things to say them when you make comments like that. If anything, you're actually bashing School Programs....schools don't need clubs and vice versa! "We" work together because "We" have to for our sport to be succesful at this level. I'm just saying that all teams should have to follow some of the same basic rules: Pre-Season Medical Physical, Minimum Grades requirement, must only wrestle for a club if your school does NOT have a wrestling program, etc.... They were not put in place so that a parent could just move their kid to the team that fits them and/or their kids best. I'm sure I am probably the minority, but I disagree on allowing a "KID" to wrestle for a club just so he has better coaches/practice partners. We started a team up at our Middle School about 5 years ago and have slowly but surely started to build a decent program. We even had some "Club" kids come to our team since the School they attended had finally added a wrestling program. Those "Club" kids helped us tremendously to build our program. It wasn't easy and it's still not! We started out with 1 coach, then 2, and now 5-6. This took parents that wanted to make their kid's school team a better enviornment instead of taking the option of going to a "Club." So, again I say that "Clubs" have their place for now in KY Middle School Wrestling, but changes could be made to make it better to include "eventually" eliminating them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tiltfor3 20 Report post Posted February 29, 2012 tiltfor3....Nobody is "bashing youth club programs!" I feel Clubs have had a huge, positive impact on Middle School Wrestling in KY. I don't think anyone can deny that. But you're just saying things to say them when you make comments like that. If anything, you're actually bashing School Programs....schools don't need clubs and vice versa! "We" work together because "We" have to for our sport to be succesful at this level. I'm just saying that all teams should have to follow some of the same basic rules: Pre-Season Medical Physical, Minimum Grades requirement, must only wrestle for a club if your school does NOT have a wrestling program, etc.... They were not put in place so that a parent could just move their kid to the team that fits them and/or their kids best. I'm sure I am probably the minority, but I disagree on allowing a "KID" to wrestle for a club just so he has better coaches/practice partners. We started a team up at our Middle School about 5 years ago and have slowly but surely started to build a decent program. We even had some "Club" kids come to our team since the School they attended had finally added a wrestling program. Those "Club" kids helped us tremendously to build our program. It wasn't easy and it's still not! We started out with 1 coach, then 2, and now 5-6. This took parents that wanted to make their kid's school team a better enviornment instead of taking the option of going to a "Club." So, again I say that "Clubs" have their place for now in KY Middle School Wrestling, but changes could be made to make it better to include "eventually" eliminating them. Dude- You just made my point. Your school benefited from a club. You need further proof? Look at soccer. Also, as long as middle schoolers are allowed to compete at the high school level in wrestling, you could conceivably pigeon-hole a young man's choices as to attending high school. I fail to understand how eliminating clubs could ever benefit a child. Your position is self-serving at best. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted March 1, 2012 I think you will always have clubs in middle school wrestling. especially if Jefferson County and I dont know about Fayette sancitions middle school wrestling. but there are no real school teams in jcps because of this and if you eliminate clubs then......... but I do agree, if there is a school team, they should have right to have that kid in there school to wrestle for them. Its llike saying my kid goes to Waggener and is an All Star QB but he should be allowed to play for Trinity because it serves him better. And the soccer reference? club soccer is play opposite of high school season for older kids and in middle school leagues, clubs dont play or compete against middle school teams because it would not be right to have an all star team compete against a normal team. Now if you really wanted to step up things on a big level and if KY ever got the participation from school teams, you could have a scholastic championship in the winter/normal wrestling season and a state club championship in late spring/early summer. Let these spring clubs travel , hit top competition out of state. more events in the spring. That would be the dream situation but we as a state are a few years away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tiltfor3 20 Report post Posted March 2, 2012 If I recall, that is why HS soccer is in the fall now. School teams were losing their best players to club teams. We are talking middle school here. So, if my middle school kid is an All Star QB and is in the Waggener feeder system, he still has the opportunity to go to Trinity. If he's a middle schooler and wrestled for Waggener, he is pegion-holed into having to attend Waggener. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bigedcoach 27 Report post Posted March 6, 2012 HS soccer has always been santioned in the fall, #2 if your kid wants to attend Trinity why isnt he in a Trinity feeder school? I love it when kids turn catholic their 9th grade year. My belief is that club wrestling need to step up more in the spring and summer. I totally believe that there is a great need for both club and scholastic programs. but if they have to compete in the same tournaments for a "state" championships then kids that attend a middle school that has a team, then they should have to particpate for that middle school. (PS in the soccer referances I have coached both HS and Club soccer) My true belief is that everyone should have the same set of rules to follow when competing for a scholastic championship and have a seperate club season also but we dont have the numbers yet in our sport to do this sooo......... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stedlkd 1 Report post Posted March 6, 2012 Matside weighins will fix everything. If a kid is on the brink of being over then maybe he should move up for the next tournament? If he's cutting too much weight, it'll be obvious on the mat. Isn't the important thing at this age developing strong technique and a love of the sport? Good point, this would take care of it all. Wrestlers won't be over weight for the whole event. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dixie Tino 3 Report post Posted March 7, 2012 Dude- You just made my point. Your school benefited from a club. You need further proof? Look at soccer. Also, as long as middle schoolers are allowed to compete at the high school level in wrestling, you could conceivably pigeon-hole a young man's choices as to attending high school. I fail to understand how eliminating clubs could ever benefit a child. Your position is self-serving at best. tiltfor3....I can only hope that you're a parent and not a coach. You are obviously more concerned about a few/minority of the kids in KY Middle School Wrestling and NOT the whole picture. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tiltfor3 20 Report post Posted March 10, 2012 tiltfor3....I can only hope that you're a parent and not a coach. You are obviously more concerned about a few/minority of the kids in KY Middle School Wrestling and NOT the whole picture. I am concerned for the sport and ALL kids that wrestle no matter if they go to public, private, or are home schooled. It is America. We must protect the rights of the few for the good of all. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
