seeding the state tournament

[oldwrestler81 6]

Alot of the redrawing in Ohio is based on size.  there are Three sizes of schools (D I- III) for wrestling. Each division is made up uf 4 districts and each district has 4 sectionals of between 9-15 schools each. As schools change size they can change division or schools add or drop wrestling Every year there are "realignments" to try and balance out the number of participating schools in each.  They have alsp tried to redraw the district lines in the past to try to split the major powers.  It gets political sometimes and some of the district maps kinda look like congressional districts

[Ranger123 43]

As I understand the rule, the KHSAA currently requires a "draw" to set the state tournament field.  So any change would have to be approved by them.  Since their "Holy Grail" basketball event in Lexington (you know, happens soon after the state tournament) is a blind draw, I don't think there is much feeling for a seeding system.

No offense to Ranger, who does a great job, but the big issue would be developing an independent ranking system that makes sure everyone from all over the state is seen as often as the next.  KHSAA doesn't want to use Cantrell rankings for basketball and those are fairly well accepted.  I like the idea of seeding, but I'm not sure it is practical.

I'm not sure.  The basketball and wrestling tournaments are completely different.  Most of the sports like basketball and football have it set where Region A will play region B, etc.  The crazy blind draw that we do is unique, I believe.  I wouldn't propose that any rankings are used as a primary seeding criteria.  There should be mandatory reporting of results to the KHSAA and they would have the results they need to seed it.  There would be a conference call to discuss any issues that couldn't be resolved based on the results, but as I mentioned before less than half of the coaches around the state would actually participate in the call.

[jbigdaddy 8]

The state of Georgia crowns both a traditional team champion and a dual team state champion.  Kentucky is definitely behind in this area.  We must schedule the dual state championship in such a way that it takes place.

[lilmilf 0]

i agree. if your the best wrestler in the state at ur class wether its a seeded bracket or drawn your gona win. y make things difficult?

[Ranger123 43]

i agree. if your the best wrestler in the state at ur class wether its a seeded bracket or drawn your gona win. y make things difficult?

I would vote to "make things difficult" to avoid the situation where Ervin, Yenter, and Milford all end up in the top side of the bracket.  It would have only taken one little switch this past year and those kids would have been battling each other just to make the finals.  Then destroying whomever they faced in the finals.  I believe it is a big deal to make the finals.  Yes, the primary focus is crowning a champion, but getting to the podium and getting under the spotlight are NOT completely insignificant.

[myGSP 4]

but as I mentioned before less than half of the coaches around the state would actually participate in the call.

If a process was set up by the KHSSA with a conference call and less than half of the coaches participate. I would not call those non- participating Coaches, if they don't do their job as a coach and stand up for their kids in the process! :-o :-o :-o

[ccbcdeke 43]

If we really want to help our state tournament GET BETTER REFS

If YOU really want to help our state tournament...BE that better Ref.

[oldwrestler81 6]

can't ref when you are coaching lol  Now most of the seeding talk is concerned when we have a clear #1 and clear #2 or #3.  but what about the weight class where there are no clear favorites or close seconds.  Wouldn't seeding close kids based on whatever criteria or meeting give them an unfair advantage?

[Ranger123 43]

If a process was set up by the KHSSA with a conference call and less than half of the coaches participate. I would not call those non- participating Coaches, if they don't do their job as a coach and stand up for their kids in the process! :-o :-o :-o

I am referring back to my previous suggestion that only region champs are seeded.  The rest fall into the bracket based on the way #2, #3, and #4 does today.  Based on a single year sample, less than half of the coaches had a region champ.

[Has Been 11]

I am referring back to my previous suggestion that only region champs are seeded.  The rest fall into the bracket based on the way #2, #3, and #4 does today.  Based on a single year sample, less than half of the coaches had a region champ.

This has been suggested before.

When coaches can't even get the current KSHAA Wrestling Director to hold a meeting to discuss redistricting (based on the new program).  Which was discussed and recommended at the past state tournament, "HASN'T happened" when do you think he will have a meeting to discuss seeding? If these meeting took place regrettable NO one was aware of them.

The Commissioner seems to have little interest in the future of wrestling based on current performance, coaches have a VOICE but it falls on deaf ears and nothing will ever change.

Regrettable, veteran coaches get tired of the same ole song and dance and either concede, give up or retire.

[lilmilf 0]

I would vote to "make things difficult" to avoid the situation where Ervin, Yenter, and Milford all end up in the top side of the bracket.  It would have only taken one little switch this past year and those kids would have been battling each other just to make the finals.  Then destroying whomever they faced in the finals.  I believe it is a big deal to make the finals.  Yes, the primary focus is crowning a champion, but getting to the podium and getting under the spotlight are NOT completely insignificant.

i compleatly understand that. regardles these boys need to come out to wrestle there hardest weather its a seeded bracket or not, eazy bracket or hard, with seeds alot can be underestamated. i think it would kinda destroy the fear factor of the athleat if they have the kid they want to beat on the oposite side of there bracket.

[Ranger123 43]

Here is another question?  I don't know the answer to that could pertain to this arguement. 

Do some of the big wrestling states seed their wrestles?  Ohio, California, Penn.....

How many states do seed their state tourney?

What I would truely like more than seeding the state tourney would be for the State Duals Tourney to be recognized as the team state champions and not the individual state tourney.

Once again Just the opinion of GOO

GOO out.

Ohio doesn't seed the tournament, but if there are District champions coming in that were top 3 before they are separated.  So Ervin and Yenter would NOT wrestle each other in the semis after being in the finals last year.

[Buckeye 20]

Ohio and Penn wrestle 16 man brackets! Not 32!

[Ranger123 43]

Ohio and Penn wrestle 16 man brackets! Not 32!

Yeah, but the same logic applies.  Even if there were 64; you separate the studs.

[underhooks123 0]

Yeah, but the same logic applies.  Even if there were 64; you separate the studs.

Something needs to be done.. I am a young up and coming coach and the process of KHSAA makes want to bang my head against the wall.. I know TN system is flawed but the previous placers are seeded. If they do not win the region they are "randomly" drawn in. I like how KY state works, the system needs to be tweaked. I would rather watch Brock Ervin and Garth Yentar in the finals and not in the third round this coming year.

[grappler-of-old 44]

OK I'll bend a little. 

I would be OK with a random separation of (Regional winners who placed top 4 last year)

IE.  If there are 2 returning top 4 placers then they are separated opposite brackets.

IE.II  If there are 3 returning top 4 placers then they are randomly separated in three quarterfinal brackets.

Etc. Etc.  But don't try to seed them (This still has a possibility of a semifinals match between Yenter and Ervin if maybe Boone returns to 112) But it reduces the chances and they definitely will not meet in the quarters. 

This is the opinion of GOO nothing more nothing less.  :evil:

GOO out. :-D

[Buckeye 20]

That's kind of my point, except in those two states that's all that is left are studs. Our state tournament is a bit watered down. Only makes good sense to separate the studs!!

[Ranger123 43]

Hey, I budged GOO.  We may be getting somewhere.  In your example, Boone would be automatic being in the same region as Ervin, but I see your point.  And that's all I'm saying.  Although, I will say I don't especially like purely using prior years as a criteria.  What if a kid gets 3rd, moves up 4 weight classes, and has a .500 record.  He doesn't really deserve that "seeding".  But there may be a Brock Ervin out there that is a stud and does deserve some consideration, but is a freshman or new to the state (Hall or Back).

Buckeye - another good reason to not have it random.  I agree there are some kids at state that "shouldn't be there".  So why allow them to advance by allowing for the chance that most of the studs could be bottled in one section of the bracket.