PackAttack 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Has anyone ever experienced a referee using this judgement call in a match? We had one last night, and while it is in the rule book, all of the coaches there were baffled by it? Perhaps, someone could offer some clarification or an instance when it was used and it "made sense". By no means am I attempting to bash the referee, just looking for clarification. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CoachBrown 12 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Rod-We had it happen against us last year in the state tournament. I was caught off guard to say the least. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryledad 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 I googled this topic and there has been much discussion on it. You could argue that every time a wrestler scoots off the mat to avoid nearfall, takedown or pin that they were fleeing the mat and those points be awarded with an additional point of a technical violation of fleeing. Wouldn't that open up a can of worms? :-o Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackAttack 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 I googled this topic and there has been much discussion on it. You could argue that every time a wrestler scoots off the mat to avoid nearfall, takedown or pin that they were fleeing the mat and those points be awarded with an additional point of a technical violation of fleeing. Wouldn't that open up a can of worms? :-oI agree completely, at one point one of the other coaches said, "In my opinion, it is imminent that I am going to win the match, so why not just give me my six points now." The point is well taken; it is understandable that alot of refereeing is judgment, but this one seems more than ridiculous. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mathound 4 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 A wrestler is allowed to defend himself and try to prevent being pinned or scored upon with a counter move. If that counter move is a natural move and if that natural move takes him off the mat, he would not be penalized.7-3-1 ... "There can be no technical violation of fleeing the mat if near-fall points have been earned."So I would say you can only get one or the other, TV or Imminent Nearfall. You would only get the TV if it was an unatural move that ended up off the mat. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d215 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Just curious, when discussing imminent nearfall I think one example is when one is being turned to their back and they scream out that they are hurt. If the official has began the count even if it is not a full one count then the top man would recieve a 2 point near fall. If it was a two count then the top man gets a 3 point near fall and if it is a five count the top man gets a 4 point near fall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackAttack 0 Report post Posted December 17, 2009 Al little more clarification, the call was made because the man on top was starting to bleed. He did not even have the bottom man halfway to his back, then the call was made. He gave the top wrestler who was bleeding the two points for what he said was an imminent downfall. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
d215 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 okay I see I wouldn't think that was be nearfall. Who was the ref? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ridge44 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 this has noting to do with the nearfall but it has to do with blood issues, if you was pinning a guy and your nose starts to bleed should they call blood time or let the match go on? Also i got cheated out of a reversal because the ref decided to call blood time as soon as i was getting the reversal? Should he have let me get the reversal then call blood time or did he do the right thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grappler-of-old 44 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 Soon as blood appears wrestling should be stopped. No matter what. If it is fair or not is not the concern. Blood Bourne Pathagens are the concern here Hepatitis or HIV.In you're example of the reversal. My question to you is this. Is it fair that the kid started bleeding and was more worried about the blood than you getting the reversal? Stop the match and whoever is in control stays in control and award any imminent nearfall points needed. Then continue when bleeding stops. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Coach Osborne 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 Bottom line on the whole subject is it is a refs descretion a to call a tv or imminent nearfall. With some refs I feel comfotable that this will be called correctly, but with others well.... As far as "discrestion" calls go, I have seen many matches in which a referee will intervene and well dictate the outcome. I never thought I would see the day when state wrestlers would get hit with double stalling...I was always under the assumption that a stalemate would be called first, but I guess i am a litle backwards.Now back to the iminant nearfall: I can see it being awarded for the match having to be stoped for injury or bloodtime, if the person whom has their opponent is in a position for a fall, and not the one causing the match to stop. It should not be the other way around and as mentioned about you cannot fault the person for bleeding, however they did not earn the point due to match situation. As far as imminant nearfall for the person who is on their back working their way out of bounds, this should not be criteria for awarding the person who is in position for the fall. Lets face it the person on their back worked out of the bad situation and the person in control did not take advantage of a good situation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jbigdaddy 8 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 My wrestler beat me to it, but we had a similar situation Wednesday night. My wrestler was on bottom, but had managed to position himself to come out the back and take control, earning a reversal (we were down 2-0, and that ended up being the final score). A split second before he fully came out to get the reversal, literally a split second, the ref stops the match because my guy's nose has started to bleed. I can't question the call overall, because bleeding should always stop the match. However, if there is such a thing as imminent points, it seems like these points would be considered imminent. As I think about it though, I would hate for a referee to call imminent points very often. I would always be questioning matches that were decided by imminent points. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryledad 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 A wrestler is allowed to defend himself and try to prevent being pinned or scored upon with a counter move. If that counter move is a natural move and if that natural move takes him off the mat, he would not be penalized.7-3-1 ... "There can be no technical violation of fleeing the mat if near-fall points have been earned."So to clarify if a guy is on the edge of a mat and nearfall awarded and he maneuvers himself out of bounds to avoid a pin it could not be considered fleeing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PackAttack 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 I agree with all the logical responses related to imminent nearfall and blood. One last time, my concern in this incident is that there was nothing imminent about the kid on bottom going to his back and being held their for two seconds to award near fall points to the bleeding top man. In my opinion, the ref should have blown action dead, called for bloodtime, and then put them back top/bottom. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ryledad 0 Report post Posted December 18, 2009 Sounds fair to me Packattack. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pmilf103 0 Report post Posted December 19, 2009 Can someone clarify what exactly "imminent nearfall" is. I haven't heard of this as far as I know and I'm a little confused. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mathound 4 Report post Posted December 19, 2009 A good example of imminent near-fall is when the top man has control and the defensive wrestler's back is 90 degrees to the mat (on his side) and performs a technical violation like grabbing headgear, singlet, or scissor locking the head to avoid giving up points.I think in that example, the top man gets 2 imminent nearfall points and 1 point for the TV. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
