Best pound for pound in KY history- Definative Poll and Explanation

[widowmaker 0]

We've done it before, but I'd be intrested to see a long running on the best high school wrestler from Kentucky and why.

[userdaddy 0]

Livingston Merritt was a beast.  Also i must give a vote to Jerod Trice.  Probably the best to ever come through WKY if not the state.

[Olympic_wish 0]

JoJo.  Hands down.

[danmoody 1]

I pretty much have to agree with Olymipic about Joe.  He did what he did in KY, but was also a Junior National (Fargo) runner up and a Senior Nationals runner up.  He placed in Cadets as well, maybe a few times.  Although he did not All-American in college, he was a 4x qualifier for NCAA's and ran into some tough seeds.

As far as someone not mentioned but who had a great career, Dominic Black started late but had some awesome accomplishments after high school.  He was a state champ in '87 (I think), then went on to wrestle in college at West Virginia where he was a 3x national qualifier and took 4th.  He also competed in freestyle after that, eventually wrestling for the Army, and had some considerable success at that level.

[kywrestling 0]

Dominic black

[Zeus 117]

I think the problem with these questions is what is the criteria?  High school only, include college, include international (for Dominic Black, are there any others that did well on the international circuit?).  Is it the best stats or who would win if everyone met at a decided weight?  Is there any other criteria that hasn't been mentioned?

By the way I think you have to include Dave Barnes, the old Ryle and current Cooper head coach.  I'm not sure how he did at KY states but I believe he is the only KY wrestler to make it on the podium in Div I except for Black.  Can anyone confirm or disprove this?  Also Starks was a 4x finalist, sorry had to mention since it's being included in the stats; Brad Cooper, 3x champ, 4x finalist, NAIA All-American; Murton was also a NAIA All-American; Chris Dunn, 3x champ and a 3rd place; Horn was a 5x placer; Jeff Fitch was a 3x champ but I don't know how he did his other year, presumably as a freshman since he won it three consecutive years; Luke Metzger, 2x champ, 3x finalist and a 3rd (bad call as a senior in the finals).

I'm not going to include Courtney in my pick because he hasn't finished high school and I would feel like I jinxed him if he lost, however if he continues on this pace he will boast the best stats.  Black has done the best in college with a 4th place but I think Ruschell and/or Starks will surpass him.  I see Ruschell placing this year and a contender for a 2nd place behind Metcalf next year.  I also think Starks will place next year at least, if not this year.  Black also made a World Team or two and was a World Cup champion (kind of like state duals but they have individual awards as well) so I think he had the best international career since I don't think anybody else has made any kind of World level team.  Joe Joe definitely had some crappy draws at the national tournament with TJ Williams twice in the first round.  However the argument could be made that had he had a better regular season he would have been seeded, but who knows.

As far as a "round robin" between all at a said weight when would this occur?  I presume when they were all high school seniors which takes Jarod Trice out of the discussion even though it obviously wasn't his fault.  When they were all seniors I'd have to take Joe Jr (even if Trice was included).  Like moody already stated he was in the finals of Junior Nationals (freestyle) and Senior Nationals (folkstyle).  Also if you have ever wrestled him you can appreciate the insane speed, surprising strength, and not only his unbelievable technique but his ability to break the moves down and teach them to anybody.

[possumdaddy 23]

Burke from Danville only won state once

[pioneer_pride 1]

Burke from Danville only won state once

I was wondering about that one too.  I had to go with Joe Carr Jr on this one, with an asterisk.  If Jerod Trice's career had not ended so soon, I think this might have been different.  He was awesome as a 9th & 10th grader and could have done big things beyond that.

[pioneer_pride 1]

I think the problem with these questions is what is the criteria?  High school only, include college, include international (for Dominic Black, are there any others that did well on the international circuit?).  Is it the best stats or who would win if everyone met at a decided weight?  Is there any other criteria that hasn't been mentioned?

good points.  i based my decision solely on high school, and at what I thought was their peak.  i think it is obviously great to be a 4xer or 3xer or whatever.  but if you are talking about a "best pound for pound all time" i would only consider their best season.  it's not always their senior year due to injuries, motivation, etc. 

By the way I think you have to include Dave Barnes, the old Ryle and current Cooper head coach.  I'm not sure how he did at KY states but I believe he is the only KY wrestler to make it on the podium in Div I except for Black.  Can anyone confirm or disprove this? 

 

I would agree, Dave should be included for his senior year he was untouchable.  I don't know his name, but Dave told me there was a total of 3 D1 AA's from Ky, him, Black, and some other guy i think that wrestled for Iowa...or like Iowa Northern.  Something like that, but there were 3.

[CoachBrown 12]

You may be talking about Dave Grant from Tates Creek.

He wrestled in college somewhere previous to Northern Iowa, but

transferred there and was an AA I'm pretty sure.

He is currently the Head Wrestling Coach at Northern Illinois.

[widowmaker 0]

Good start.

Does anyone know anything about James Earl Hardin?

[mano y mano 0]

I would have to sit and look at this long and hard.  However, a few that would come to mind would be Tendai of the later generation. 

Old school:  Barker 3x SC from Newport in the 70's,  the Coles-Todd, Tom and Troy, Irvins-, Pearson-FC, Storms-SK, Ennels, Migliaccio-TC Cybill of TC Tom and Andy Lee of Christian Co.  Old man Shotwell was a handful back in his day. Martz-,

Only 4 DI All Americans to come out of KY-

Lee Fitch Woodford Co.  77ish I believe  AA @ Indiana U.

Dave Grant- TC, AA from Northern Iowa, assistant at Minn. and currently Head at N.Ill Univ

Dominic Black-HC, 91 AA from WV, impressive International career

Dave Barnes SK, 92 AA from Miami U., former Ryle coach, currently at Cooper

[385 109]

This poll is flawed, and any one that asks the same question this one asks will be. The problem is what are we going by? If youre going by high school records and accomplishments, then you have to vote for Travis Sullivan. You just can't make an argument against National Win Record and National Record for Consecutive Wins. You just cant. If youre going by what the wrestler goes on to do after college, then I would have to say the vote goes to one of the four listed All Americans. If youre going by how much the wrestlers dominated their opponents, then i would have to say Joe Carr Jr or Harrison Courtney, eventually giving the edge to Joe. There are just so many good wrestlers their its really hard to say...

I voted for Joe Carr Jr.

[userdaddy 0]

I wrestled for Hoptown ,so i'll always be bias towards Fatman, Willie E., Jerod Trice, & Miguel Merritt.  But you got to respect what Joe Carr did and how he did it.  I will say that Tinsley had him flat as a credit card in 1996, but thats another story for another day.  Also even though i've heard so many bad rumors about Chris Dunn, he beat 2 of the greats in Sean Smith & Grady Peterson his freshman year. And if it wasnt for one hell of a stacked 119 that year, Dunn would have 4 titles.

[Kentucky10 0]

JoJo.  Hands down.

JoJo no question

[KYgrappler 4]

Carr.

[The Bear 0]

I find it funny no one really votes for Murton. He dominated everyone with maybe two guys that could hang with him for 3 periods his senior year. I think though that since he transfered here that people may not consider him a legit KY wrestler. How does everyone feel about this? Is he one of Ky's best even though he's really an Ohio boy (i think)?

[eaglewrestler12 2]

I find it funny no one really votes for Murton. He dominated everyone with maybe two guys that could hang with him for 3 periods his senior year. I think though that since he transfered here that people may not consider him a legit KY wrestler. How does everyone feel about this? Is he one of Ky's best even though he's really an Ohio boy (i think)?

I think a lot of it has to do with the fact that he's really not doing much now. I think I heard he's hurt? So far, I believe he's a 1x NAIA AA. I think a lot were also disappointed that he didn't end up at a D1 school.

[Dutch1873 0]

I am a huge fan of Harrison, but I think if you're going to do this list you should have only guys that have finished their high school career. I doubt very seriously that something like this would go to Harrison's head, but let him get out of school before you try to quantify his ability.

[ontheroadcoach 0]

HOW ABOUT JJ JHONSON 4X NCAA CHAMP IN THE 70S

[va07 0]

Miguel Merritt  I have never seen any one just destroy everyone the way this young man did absolute animal. So much stronger than anyone would believe and so very quick. I think if he would have wanted to he would have wrestled D1 and done very well. He was hands down the best I have ever saw on the High School level. No disrespect intended to all the other great one's on this list. I think you have to throw Murton in the mix he was great I think without the injuries he would be doing much better in college.

[bluegrassbrawler 2]

I think we really need to define the criteria for which we are basing our votes.  Just high school?  plus college?  international success? We need to set some guidelines...

[userdaddy 0]

Since Miguel played football at Alabama, and Ian Horn played soccer. I dont look at what all these out standing wrestlers did after high school as much as others.  The question is Pound for Pound Kentucky wrestler.  So I tend to look more at what they did in high school more than after.  And yes Miguel was a man amoung boys.  I never wondered if he was gonna win a match, I wondered if he was gonna hurt the other kid during the match.

[Olympic_wish 0]

I think we really need to define the criteria for which we are basing our votes.  Just high school?  plus college?  international success? We need to set some guidelines...

Why?

Why not just say who you think and why?  It's really not a hard question.

[userdaddy 0]

Why?

Why not just say who you think and why?  It's really not a hard question.

I agree...