Region 5 Rankings - 12/15/08

[dinubus 2]

Region 5 Rankings

[eaglewrestler12 2]

Dinubus i thought i sent you an PM with Easterns line-up and brief description of our team. well if you didn't get it I'll post the short version

103: Cecil Clardy 10th

112: Jo Rupp 8th

119: Tyler Lancaster 9th/Jay Upton 10th

125: Russell Nyitrai 10th

130: Austin Dicken 9th

135: Tom Shirey 10th

140: Justin Davis 12th

145: OPEN for now; will be filled for sure

152: Tom Rupp 10th

160: Hunter Boroff 11th

171: Chris Parks 11th

189: Kyle Durbin 10th

215: Menes McNeely 11th

285: Tyler Beckett 12th

[dinubus 2]

I did not notice it until you made this reply.  Sorry about that. I will look it over and take it into consideration while doing the 12/22 Rankings.  Please send me more info as you get it.  I will make sure I check my PM's more regularly.

[threequarter 0]

I'm not too sure if Dan Thomson will be able to go 135...

[eaglewrestler12 2]

I'm not too sure if Dan Thomson will be able to go 135...

Yeah I've heard from a teammate he barely makes 140

[oldgrappler 9]

Based on what I've seen, TJ Schuyler - OC, should be in the mix at 103.   Also, you need to check the alpha master reports - Jo Rupp can't go 103. 

[dinubus 2]

I'm not too sure if Dan Thomson will be able to go 135...

I hope he is able, he has already beat the #2 rank and has a good chance at placing very high.  Not that he can't do similar at 140, but it is quite stacked.

[dinubus 2]

Based on what I've seen, TJ Schuyler - OC, should be in the mix at 103.   Also, you need to check the alpha master reports - Jo Rupp can't go 103. 

I haven't been a coach for a few years, so I do not have access to the alpha master reports.  However, an Eastern wrestler already told me to move him back up to 112.  Last week I had TJ ranked and will probably put him back on there.  Thank you for the info.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Based on what I've seen, TJ Schuyler - OC, should be in the mix at 103.   Also, you need to check the alpha master reports - Jo Rupp can't go 103. 

ok, sorry for the stupid question here.  but is the alpha master report absolute and final?  what if a kid just can't keep the weight on?  for example, you have a kid who starts the season in November at 200 lbs and his body fat test says his lowest weight class he can go is 189.  But come January, he finds himself weighing like 175.  can the test be adjusted or re-taken?  are waivers possible?  Just curious.  in particular, i was wondering about Danger's case, where i think he posted on here that he was weighing much lighter than the fat test would allow him to go, essentially forcing him to wrestle up.  This seems like a potential problem with the fat test.

Any coaches got some insight on this?

[old140 4]

Good question.  It seems to me that most of the body fat tests that are used are not very accurate at all.  I have seen schools get certified using one of those fat tests that you step on.  Anyone who has used one of these knows that they are very inaccurate.  By the way, Danger is definitely not weighing lighter then it says he should.

[pioneer_pride 1]

Good question.  It seems to me that most of the body fat tests that are used are not very accurate at all.  I have seen schools get certified using one of those fat tests that you step on.  Anyone who has used one of these knows that they are very inaccurate.  By the way, Danger is definitely not weighing lighter then it says he should.

Oh my bad.  I thought i seen him post something saying he was wrestling like 171 although he weighed like in the 150's because of his decent plan.  I think it said he would weigh like 159.

The accuracy of these tests is a whole nother story.  I read an interesting article on how to cheat er...."fool" the hydration part of the test.  I won't post a link, but let's just say there are ways to fool that.  The body fat tests should be done in a very standardized fashion.  How hard or costly would it be for the KHSAA to have all the teams meet up for the body fat test at 1 location, and have them administered by 1 person....all the same way?  You could do it by region. 

[threequarter 0]

yeah i've used one of the things you just squeeze and it said im 17.8% (more like 7.8% or mayb 8.8)

we use the caliper for ours... just weigh, pinch 3 areas and we're all good, theyre the most accurate without paying a ton of money.

Eaglewrestler12- He's not having a whole lot of trouble getting down to 140 but if he tried to go lower i dont know how safe it would be.

and i agree with you, Dinubus, he would destroy at 135 but at 140 he still has a good chance. I can see him winning it, but he definitely will have a very challenging road ahead.

[old140 4]

Oh my bad.  I thought i seen him post something saying he was wrestling like 171 although he weighed like in the 150's because of his decent plan.  I think it said he would weigh like 159.

The accuracy of these tests is a whole nother story.  I read an interesting article on how to cheat er...."fool" the hydration part of the test.  I won't post a link, but let's just say there are ways to fool that.  The body fat tests should be done in a very standardized fashion.  How hard or costly would it be for the KHSAA to have all the teams meet up for the body fat test at 1 location, and have them administered by 1 person....all the same way?  You could do it by region. 

This is a good idea.  What about the new wrestlers and football players that come in after this initial fat test?  I am happy with the steps that are being taken to keep kids safe, I just think like everything else it needs to be tweaked here and there to make it better.

[threequarter 0]

Another thing is at 119 Rusch beat Bisenius at the Scrimmage earlier this season. I think it was by pinfall, but i'm not positive.

[pioneer_pride 1]

This is a good idea.  What about the new wrestlers and football players that come in after this initial fat test?  I am happy with the steps that are being taken to keep kids safe, I just think like everything else it needs to be tweaked here and there to make it better.

Yea, i thought about that too.  Don't have an answer there other than allow the test to be done after football playoffs or something.  Or just for those few exceptions where kids come out really late, they have to have the test done by a designated person.  I don't know.

[dinubus 2]

Another thing is at 119 Rusch beat Bisenius at the Scrimmage earlier this season. I think it was by pinfall, but i'm not positive.

A scrimmage isn't a real match.  Don't get me wrong, Rusch is looking great from what I have seen, but I believe Bisenius beat Rusch like 2 or three times last year and the year before.  So, until they have their actual match, I have to give it to Bisenius.

[eaglewrestler12 2]

A scrimmage isn't a real match.  Don't get me wrong, Rusch is looking great from what I have seen, but I believe Bisenius beat Rusch like 2 or three times last year and the year before.  So, until they have their actual match, I have to give it to Bisenius.

Well in that case, Russell Nyitrai beat Bisenius last year at regionals. not that it matters. Russ will be staying at 125 and has beaten Taylor and Richardson.

[threequarter 0]

A scrimmage isn't a real match.  Don't get me wrong, Rusch is looking great from what I have seen, but I believe Bisenius beat Rusch like 2 or three times last year and the year before.  So, until they have their actual match, I have to give it to Bisenius.

Richardson and Bisenius Wrestled all 3 times NO and SO met. Connor, Bisenius by fall, Regional Duals Bisenius by fall again, and Regionals where it was for 5th and 6th place, Bisenius by Deciscion I think it was 8-2 or 8-4

[Ranger123 43]

ok, sorry for the stupid question here.  but is the alpha master report absolute and final?  what if a kid just can't keep the weight on?  for example, you have a kid who starts the season in November at 200 lbs and his body fat test says his lowest weight class he can go is 189.  But come January, he finds himself weighing like 175.  can the test be adjusted or re-taken?  are waivers possible?  Just curious.  in particular, i was wondering about Danger's case, where i think he posted on here that he was weighing much lighter than the fat test would allow him to go, essentially forcing him to wrestle up.  This seems like a potential problem with the fat test.

Any coaches got some insight on this?

It is my understanding that you are just out of luck if that happens.  I've wondered about the case where a kid gets very sick and drops say 10 to 15 pounds over the course of a week.  I assume some of that would come right back on when healthy, but maybe not all of it immediately.

[threequarter 0]

This is a good idea.  What about the new wrestlers and football players that come in after this initial fat test?  I am happy with the steps that are being taken to keep kids safe, I just think like everything else it needs to be tweaked here and there to make it better.

And to prevent further... favoritism? The person issuing the test would be from a different region or better yet not affiliated with Kentucky High School Wrestling in any way.

[Ranger123 43]

And to prevent further... favoritism? The person issuing the test would be from a different region or better yet not affiliated with Kentucky High School Wrestling in any way.

I know, I know.  I'll do all of the testing. 

[threequarter 0]

Hmm. Well you might be able to do that so your rankings are dead accurate.... Maybe bump some kids up to the next weight class so you can guarantee your top 8 predictions at each weight?

[old140 4]

It is my understanding that you are just out of luck if that happens.  I've wondered about the case where a kid gets very sick and drops say 10 to 15 pounds over the course of a week.  I assume some of that would come right back on when healthy, but maybe not all of it immediately.

This is a good point.  I worry about the inaccurate fat tests for the same reason.  It says a brand new wrestler that he has a very low body fat % and only can lose so much.  When that kids gets working hard and eating right for wrestling he may just end up losing more then it says and he is now screwed.

[tc125 0]

It is my understanding that you are just out of luck if that happens.  I've wondered about the case where a kid gets very sick and drops say 10 to 15 pounds over the course of a week.  I assume some of that would come right back on when healthy, but maybe not all of it immediately.

to be honest the weight loss plan was a good idea, but doesnt work. there are plenty of ways to get around it, and kids and coaches alike are doing them. its just an extra hassel that was not needed. all it does is cause kids to cut down to different weight classes the same way, but take longer to do it. i cut weight for my body fat test, so i was allowed to wrestle the weight i wanted to wrestle much earlier in the year. i weigh the same ive weighed all year, 132. that weight is not going to change. if i wanted to drop to 119 i would just cut from 132 every week, to 123, then 121, then 119. all im going to do is take 3 weeks to cut to 19, instead of 1, causing me to wrestle up two weeks. there needs to be a better way to stop kids from cutting too much weight. personnally i dont know what the solution would be, but the weight loss plans arent it. all the weight loss plans did for tates creeks program was cause us to cut out wednesday matches because it was too tough for kids to make weight twice a week. and if you were too heavy, you couldnt wrestle the correct weight the following saturday.

[threequarter 0]

to be honest the weight loss plan was a good idea, but doesnt work. there are plenty of ways to get around it, and kids and coaches alike are doing them. its just an extra hassel that was not needed. all it does is cause kids to cut down to different weight classes the same way, but take longer to do it. i cut weight for my body fat test, so i was allowed to wrestle the weight i wanted to wrestle much earlier in the year. i weigh the same ive weighed all year, 132. that weight is not going to change. if i wanted to drop to 119 i would just cut from 132 every week, to 123, then 121, then 119. all im going to do is take 3 weeks to cut to 19, instead of 1, causing me to wrestle up two weeks. there needs to be a better way to stop kids from cutting too much weight. personnally i dont know what the solution would be, but the weight loss plans arent it. all the weight loss plans did for tates creeks program was cause us to cut out wednesday matches because it was too tough for kids to make weight twice a week. and if you were too heavy, you couldnt wrestle the correct weight the following saturday.

Theres never going to be a perfect way to do this... Think of governments, someones always going to do something wrong and theres always going to be that one person who doesn't agree. I read a while ago about some idea of having guys weigh in before they wrestled each match but that wouldn't work at all because kids would possibly miss weight and that would be chaos... Weighing in at 119 then 130 wouldn't be fun at all...