smack the mat

[three 9]

a high number of refs will not look for the pin until they get their 5 count. anybody else see this?

[FalconWrestling 147]

I felt like I was stuck when I wrestled caldwell, then stuck him 3 times before the pin was called. He could've been getting his 5 count but I wasn't paying attention

[Dutch1873 0]

I would like to hear from a ref on this, as I have been told my coaches that there is not supposed to be a count. It is supposed to be called as soon as the shoulder blades touch the mat.

[FalconWrestling 147]

As in a 5 count for back points

[CoachK 2]

Its actually a two count.  Sometimes you will see a better more experienced ref raise their hand 6 inches off the mat and that is the first second, then if the second second is there they blow the whistle and slap the mat.  There should not be a wait until after the 5 count as that is for back points with shoulder blades exposed at a 45* angle or inches off the mat if bridging. 

I would like to hear from a ref on this, as I have been told my coaches that there is not supposed to be a count. It is supposed to be called as soon as the shoulder blades touch the mat.

[wrestling4life 0]

Its actually a two count.  Sometimes you will see a better more experienced ref raise their hand 6 inches off the mat and that is the first second, then if the second second is there they blow the whistle and slap the mat.  There should not be a wait until after the 5 count as that is for back points with shoulder blades exposed at a 45* angle or inches off the mat if bridging. 

As a ref this is correct. I myself do not raise my hand but it is a two count. I know some refs count the one then slap the mat. But never do you have to wait till there is a five count. Look at the records there are 3 second pins.

[Dutch1873 0]

As a ref this is correct. I myself do not raise my hand but it is a two count. I know some refs count the one then slap the mat. But never do you have to wait till there is a five count. Look at the records there are 3 second pins.

Thanks for the clarification

[three 9]

Awesome, nice responces. Hopefully the refs that are doing this will read this post.

[blah 0]

OK how about the opposite side of the spectrum, last sat. at the lonesome the woman freestyle ref, don't know her name, was calling touch pins as if we were wrestling freestyle.  i acknowledge that she is a wonderful ref. and not trying to portray any disrespect, but i was watching a lot of the matches she was reffing and there was a couple where the dude instead of bridging and rolling, just rolled across his back and wasn't even enough for a half second count and she called them the instant they both touched the mat. no 2 count and definitely no 5 count.  and then later cattan also called a similar touchpin where the dude was in a cradle, rolled back for momentum, towards his own feet, and rolled out of the cradle, over his head, and he did this pretty fast so i doubt there was a 2 count and cattan slapped the mat when the dude was already rolled over.  i realize that this was because of reaction time but if he was already rolled out of it, unless u have the reaction time of a sloth, i doubt it was a pin.  just throwing this out there cause i agree that there are some pins that take forever, but there are also some that don't take enough time.  hopefully the refs will become more consistent and make the correct calls come February

[tc125 0]

to be honest, i dont care what ref calls what and what ref doesnt call something. i just wish that all the refs would stay consistant. they dont even necasarily need to stay consistant with each other (although it would be awesome if they were) i just want them to stay consistant with themselves and very few refs do. i like being able to know what refs call quick pins consistantly and stalling calls consistantly and so on and so forth. as long as you know that, then you can adapt your wrestling to them, but its hard to do for a lot of refs, because a lot of them are inconsistant.

[c4p_offman 0]

There is a nice lengthy rule book with a case manual that ALL refs are suppose to read.  However, as we all know it is hard to tell a ref to memorize a book even though they are getting paid.

The pin is suppose to come after a 2 count like said previously.  These 2 seconds are CONSECUTIVE.  By that I mean if the shoulders come off the mat for just a split second, the count MUST be restarted even if the shoulders returned from only coming up a quarter of an inch.  The inconsistency  of officialsis across all sports on all levels.  It is just more noticeable in wrestling because the official makes the 3rd or 4th person on the mat, where in other sports there is a lot more going on that the general audience cannot always see. 

If the woman ref was calling spot pins, then it is up to the coach to file a complaint with the head official at the event immediately or conference with the individual ref between matches.  The coach would then reference the rule in the rule book (which every coach will have with them somewhere) for clarity.

Also, I've noticed some officials giving near-fall points to someone who isn't in control.  Say the defending wrestler hasn't been reward escape or reversal points, but ends up scoring near fall at the end of the match with no escape or reversal. Any takes on this?

[@controlwa 13]

The devensive near fall and pins rarely happen in ky wrestling for whatever reason or another you usually don't see this skill till a college level wrestler. In most cases the fall happens when the top man exposes his back to the mat. In tilt's or really bad leg riding while the man in referee's position just arches back  or bridges to contain the top man to the mat. In which case leaving the bottom man in control although he might not be incontrol when they roll back to there starting position. Just as in wrestlers is in ref's if a ref has not officiated at a level where they see alot of defensive pins then they won't call it but for the ref's that have will, leaving the rest of us wondering why the call a fall.

No matter the call always stay calm and don't holler at a ref cause without ref's we won't have any raslin and KY is having a huge problem with that

[@controlwa 13]

here's a good explaination

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=HGbOjoRVNMQ

[CoachK 2]

Yea, that was a defensive pin.  I think maybe what c4p_offman was referring to was more in the situation of someone trying a peterson and then the ref counting back points before he gave the signal for a reversal.  The defensive man can get a pin but cannot get any nearfall until after a change of control has taken place.  I think much of the yelling at the refs is more because if you say something afterwards it loses it's effect as the situation is over and it's not like you can call a timeout and explain it to them right there in the middle of the match.  Hopefully they will just continue to keep doing it year after year and continue to get better. 

[ccbcdeke 43]

I think maybe what c4p_offman was referring to was more in the situation of someone trying a peterson and then the ref counting back points before he gave the signal for a reversal. 

He can count if he wants, IMO.  as long as he awards the points in the right order and gives the reversal before awarding the points for near fall.  There are many times, when the action is going very fast, that the ref has to catch up with his points when there is a stoppage or slow down.