Horrible brackets.

[GooglyMoogly 10]

49 minutes ago, GentleBeard said:

Seeds really are subjective, anyway.  In some cases, it's pretty clear who the best wrestlers are in a bracket and for fan's sake, we'd want them to only wrestle when something was on the line (semi's, finals, etc).  But, if the college national tournaments have shown us anything this year, it's that seeds really don't matter. #31 pinning #2 at NCAAs and multiple #20 seeds in the quarters, multiple major upsets in NAIA, etc.  The issue I have with the KHSAA isn't regarding the seeding (though I understand where others are coming from).  It's just not a hill I'm willing to die on.  The issue I have is the arrogant ignorance the KHSAA brings to a sport they know very little about with no motivation to learn.  The structure and senseless logic make for a bummer of an expensive postseason experience for everyone.  

The examples you give are anomalies. OF COURSE SEEDS MATTER.  If you blind draw NCAAs you could get Fix and RBY in a quarter. Deiken and Hidlay in a quarter, etc. Upsets are not proof that seeds don't matter.  This year was extremely difficult to seed for several reasons, but saying seeds don't matter is absurd. 

 

[GooglyMoogly 10]

1 hour ago, WrasslinCoach said:

But for example if a kid from region 2 knows stud A from region 1 is gonna be on a certain side of the bracket then they may forfeit to 3/4 to dodge stud A. Especially when you know whose gonna be in the bracket. Takes the random draw out of the equation. It may be rare, but somewhere it will happen.

Your example doesn't work. The KHSAA set up the scenario where kids should forfeit to get a more favorable seed at semi state.  I assume both studs would win their region tournament and be separated.  If the second best kid in semi-state was a region runner-up then using 1&4 2&3 puts him on the opposite side as well.  If the second best kid was 3rd he would also be separated so no forfeiting shenanigans would be necessary using this format.  The ONLY reason to forfeit is if you knew the stud from the other region was upset. 

If you seed the state tournament(I'm in favor of this) then you only seed the 1's, then separate 1&4 2&3.  It is REALLY not that difficult. 

[GentleBeard 145]

51 minutes ago, GooglyMoogly said:

Upsets are not proof that seeds don't matter.  This year was extremely difficult to seed for several reasons, but saying seeds don't matter is absurd. 

 

Why are they considered “upsets”, then? Seeds matter to the fans. We as fans want to see Fix and RBY in the finals, by example. We as fans want to see who we feel are the best wrestlers wrestling in the significant bouts. Nothing wrong with that perspective. But, I doubt seeds have the same significance to those competing or coaching. If a competitor or coach puts a lot of stock into seeds, I feel like they’re misusing their energy to get prepared for the tournament. In any event, this wasn’t my point regarding the KHSAA. 
 

Based on your last statement, it appears there are a lot of absurd wrestlers wrestling in national and state tournaments across the country this year. Some are actually winning, which is even more “absurd”, I suppose?

[grappler-of-old 44]

On 3/19/2021 at 10:13 AM, Chris Duke said:

The seeding for regionals in that weight class was correct.  That weight had 3 state qualifiers and he didn’t have any head to head this year to look at.  While I agree in the old system the forfeit would be the right call we can’t knock the 18-8 kid for wrestling a very tough schedule.  

No it was not correct there were two common opponents that the 18-8 kid lost to and the 28-1 kid beat.  So schedule does not matter.  All you have to do is avoid the other wrestler and you get the seed. I had no horse in the race except wanting to see the correct seeds.  

This type of shenanigans is the reason I am NOT in favor of seeding the state tourney. 

[Ranger123 43]

45 minutes ago, grappler-of-old said:

No it was not correct there were two common opponents that the 18-8 kid lost to and the 28-1 kid beat.  So schedule does not matter.  All you have to do is avoid the other wrestler and you get the seed. I had no horse in the race except wanting to see the correct seeds.  

This type of shenanigans is the reason I am NOT in favor of seeding the state tourney. 

You just have to correctly value common opponent in the criteria which our region can’t seem to figure out. Been shaking my head at this for years. 

[GooglyMoogly 10]

On 3/19/2021 at 11:46 AM, GentleBeard said:

Why are they considered “upsets”, then? Seeds matter to the fans. We as fans want to see Fix and RBY in the finals, by example. We as fans want to see who we feel are the best wrestlers wrestling in the significant bouts. Nothing wrong with that perspective. But, I doubt seeds have the same significance to those competing or coaching. If a competitor or coach puts a lot of stock into seeds, I feel like they’re misusing their energy to get prepared for the tournament. In any event, this wasn’t my point regarding the KHSAA. 
 

Based on your last statement, it appears there are a lot of absurd wrestlers wrestling in national and state tournaments across the country this year. Some are actually winning, which is even more “absurd”, I suppose?

I think you're confusing seeds with rankings bud. 

[Tdog'sPap 9]

Much of the complaint about seeding, could have been eliminated by wrestling for true 2nd. One of the best examples is Semi-state 3 152 lb Region 6 runner-up will be at home this weekend, while region 6 3rd place finisher will take home a medal. seeding was based on record, and last years placement I assume. Considering only top 2 advanced, 1 against 4, 2 against 3 would have been a much better format. given the complete lack of parity across the state, and with continuing the random draw match up at state, True 2nd should be added. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

2 hours ago, Tdog'sPap said:

Much of the complaint about seeding, could have been eliminated by wrestling for true 2nd. One of the best examples is Semi-state 3 152 lb Region 6 runner-up will be at home this weekend, while region 6 3rd place finisher will take home a medal. seeding was based on record, and last years placement I assume. Considering only top 2 advanced, 1 against 4, 2 against 3 would have been a much better format. given the complete lack of parity across the state, and with continuing the random draw match up at state, True 2nd should be added. 

I did the research, if a true second was wrestled this the matches in each Semi State.

SS1 would have had 6 matches.  120, 126,132,145,152, and 195

SS2 would have had 5 matches 120,132,182,195,220

SS3 would have had 6 matches 113,126,145,152,170,182

SS4 would have had 3 matches 106,126,182. 

Would have added about 1 hour to the tournament (B/C of 45 minute break)