Stalling in youth wrestling

[sbfraz 8]

Let me start off by stating that I'm not complaining. I have a legitimate question. Is stalling ever called in youth wrestling in KY? When we travel to other states, we have seen it called. I have never seen it called here. This weekend at the state tourney my wrestlers had two opponents that stalled the entire third period to protect a 1 or 2 point lead. One of my wrestlers actually stood up, took both hands of the kid, looked at the ref while the bottom man stayed with his elbows touching his knees and still didn't get a stalling call.

I saw similar situations happen all day. I'm asking so I know how to handle this in the future. Do I keep yelling for a stalling call or just give up until middle school?

[Bluesdad 73]

I've never seen stalling called in youth wrestling in Ky. But I take Blue to PA, OH, Mich, WV, and VA a lot and it's called in most of those states a lot. PA and OH call their youth tournaments like Ky calls high school tourneys. I noticed at the Ky youth state tourney they were very hesitant to call points period. Blue stuck a kid in a cradle the ref gave no take down points or back points and only pinned the kid after he studded it up. He wasn't going to give a take down or back points and only gave the pin. I thought it was very weird the way the refs called the matches this past weekend.

[sbfraz 8]

I had a similar situation. My son had a clear takedown, a leg hooked, both shoulders covered and the kid on his butt, but no takedown. Then had another takedown that started 5 feet in bounds and landed on the line called out of bounds, a reversal waved off after the table worker consulted with the ref about the clock (the table worker not even the opposing coach) and went into the third down 2-4 with a kid who chose bottom and literally had his elbows and knees touching the whole period. Anyone watching the match and not the ref or scoreboard would have clearly thought my son won by major decision. Unfortunately he lost by 2. My son walked off the mat completely stunned that he lost a match that he clearly controlled. I'm not angry. I just don't understand why the officiating is so different in KY than any other state we wrestle. It has to be setting our kids up for a major disadvantage when they travel out of KY. Teaching a kid to stall an entire period will only backfire down the road.

If the rules are different in KY as far as youth officiating, we should all have a rule book so we know the rules.

[Bluesdad 73]

That's why I have Blue wrestle in other states most of the time. He doesn't wrestle in Ky in youth tournaments very often. Last year during the belt series he got scr$&ed out of a match. He stuck a kid in a whip the ref pinned the kid held Blues hand up went to the table to sign the ballet sheet the kids coach came over crying they talk for about 3 or 4 minutes and he calls shoud for an illegal move. I went nuts. We left but that ref cheated Blue out of the belt that he worked his guts out for. It's not cheap for us to travel 3 hours 3 weekends in a row to get cheated out of something a 8 year old works hard for. Ky refs what can you say.

[heavy83 15]

Most of the youth really don't know they are stalling its really never gone over what it is. When I'm officiating I always tell them to keep moving or I'll call stalemate and then explain to them

[Pinned 0]

It is some thing that we need to let our little guys know. My son lost a match Sunday by 2 points I put him down in ref position he stood to his feet and the other kid locked his hands and stood hugging him until the match was over. The kid never returned him or even tried to advance anything. Not a good way to win a match we ask several times for stalling. With that said the state tournament was really good and cool for all the young wrestlers. I think all the kids that competed Sunday walked away very pumped about what they had just done win or lose. 

[MLee 68]

Most of the youth really don't know they are stalling its really never gone over what it is. When I'm officiating I always tell them to keep moving or I'll call stalemate and then explain to them

I agree with this philosophy.  Stalling is too subjective to teach youth...especially the younger kids.  Many times, they're are just trying to hang on, not purposely stalling anyways.  I've never seen stalling called in a Cincinnati youth tournament. 

[sbfraz 8]

Ok. I can understand that but why not at least call stalemate like heavy83 said he does? Then they at least have to reset. We've wrestled a ton of matches and have only seen the one female ref call a stalemate. I just think it should be clear what can be expected, so coaches and refs are all on the same page.

[plantmanky1 58]

The problem I have with youth stalling is the coaches yelling at their kids to to it during the match. 

[sbfraz 8]

The problem I have with youth stalling is the coaches yelling at their kids to to it during the match.

I totally agree! That's why it needs to be clearly defined. 9/10 year olds are definitely capable of understanding stalling. My son calls it when watching HS and college matches and looks to the ref for the call in his matches. In other states he has had it called against his opponent.

It just seems like we need a clear statewide definition of what can be called and how it will be handled. Every tournament has different rules for locking hands, cry outs, overtime, ect... One way to promote growth is to have clearly defined rules so that parents and young wrestlers know what to expect. It can also alleviate some arguments between coaches and refs.

[Bluesdad 73]

Oh 9/10 year olds know what stalling is for sure. Blue is 9 and he knows when it happens, when to do it, and were to wrestle on the mat. All weekend at state he was yelling at the high school kids for stalling and fleeing the mat. We got to give some of these kids a little more credit. Their smart and understand the sport they put so much time and effort into.

[MLee 68]

Oh 9/10 year olds know what stalling is for sure. Blue is 9 and he knows when it happens, when to do it, and were to wrestle on the mat. All weekend at state he was yelling at the high school kids for stalling and fleeing the mat. We got to give some of these kids a little more credit. Their smart and understand the sport they put so much time and effort into.

Not every 9 year old has been wrestling for 3+ years and has MS experience like Blue.  Most of these kids are in their 1st or 2nd year and only practice 2 days a week.  They still struggle w/ locking hands, reaching back, illegal moves, and the anxiety of live wrestling. I'd hate to have some over-zealous referree calling stalling on 6 year olds! 

 

If MS/HS rules are what you prefer, then don't wrestle youth tournaments anymore. 

[sbfraz 8]

Not every 9 year old has been wrestling for 3+ years and has MS experience like Blue. Most of these kids are in their 1st or 2nd year and only practice 2 days a week. They still struggle w/ locking hands, reaching back, illegal moves, and the anxiety of live wrestling. I'd hate to have some over-zealous referree calling stalling on 6 year olds!

If MS/HS rules are what you prefer, then don't wrestle youth tournaments anymore.

You jump from 9/10 year olds to a 6 year old. There's a huge difference. Most 9 year olds are capable of understanding stalling. It's not very complicated.

As far as MS/HS rules go, they have clear rules. What are the youth rules in the state of KY? How are kids/coaches supposed to be effective when no one seems to know what the youth rules are? If it's not called in KY youth wrestling, that's fine but we should all know that as well as what else is and isn't called. Then there are no surprises during a match as far as what the rules of the day are.

[MLee 68]

You jump from 9/10 year olds to a 6 year old. There's a huge difference. Most 9 year olds are capable of understanding stalling. It's not very complicated.

As far as MS/HS rules go, they have clear rules. What are the youth rules in the state of KY? How are kids/coaches supposed to be effective when no one seems to know what the youth rules are? If it's not called in KY youth wrestling, that's fine but we should all know that as well as what else is and isn't called. Then there are no surprises during a match as far as what the rules of the day are.

I understand that, but our tournaments do include 6 year olds.  Not sure how the tournament director could organize a tournament w/ different set of rules for different age groups.  Seems like it would be a mess.       

 

And as far as the rules go...they are very clear: we don't call stalling. I don't believe we ever have.  

[sbfraz 8]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to get answers. Where are the rules? And to stray off topic a little, what about all the other calls like locking hands, overtime, cryouts, ect... Are there statewide rules for these as well? It would just make things easier if everyone used the same set of rules at each tournament.

[Nkawtg 137]

I'm not trying to be confrontational, just trying to get answers. Where are the rules? And to stray off topic a little, what about all the other calls like locking hands, overtime, cryouts, ect... Are there statewide rules for these as well? It would just make things easier if everyone used the same set of rules at each tournament.

The NFHS has a great app for the rules and a case book giving common scenarios. These are the rules we wrestle by in folkstyle in the USA. I am not familiar with any other published rules for American folkstyle. USA Wrestling does not publish folkstyle rules and the collegiate rules are based on the NCAA rule book.

[sbfraz 8]

Are the rules you are referring to high school or are there a set of youth rules. Because KY definitely does not use HS rules in youth events. Every youth tournament director decides how to handle certain situations and tells the coaches at the meeting before wrestling begins. I am wanting to know if we have a set if rules as a state that can be applied to all youth tournaments in the state so we are all in the same page.

Honestly, I would prefer that we use HS rules for intermediate and above.

[pin2win 58]

Are the rules you are referring to high school or are there a set of youth rules. Because KY definitely does not use HS rules in youth events. Every youth tournament director decides how to handle certain situations and tells the coaches at the meeting before wrestling begins. I am wanting to know if we have a set if rules as a state that can be applied to all youth tournaments in the state so we are all in the same page.

Honestly, I would prefer that we use HS rules for intermediate and above.

 

 

There is no set rules to go by because the KY Youth wrestling is basically run through a bunch of tournaments and like you said the hosting coach basically runs it how he wants. Then we gather together the day after high school state and say we are holding a youth state tourney. Our youth wrestling needs to become more organized and more consistent. To my knowledge i do not believe our youth wrestling is even under an association.

[J.W. 21]

I believe that stalling should be called at all ages, even if you are not going to hit them for points, it should be called, whistle blown and a restart.  There are many cases where the stalling is obvious and saying we don't call stalling is only allowing a bad habit to be created.  Call the stalling, warning, explain and restart from same position.  Next time, call the stalling, warning and restart from neutral.  This forces the kid to wrestle instead of protecting the lead.  Gets rid of the points being awarded costing the match, but allows the other kid the opportunity to win instead of being hugged for 1 minute. 

[raidercoach 51]

I believe that stalling should be called at all ages, even if you are not going to hit them for points, it should be called, whistle blown and a restart. There are many cases where the stalling is obvious and saying we don't call stalling is only allowing a bad habit to be created. Call the stalling, warning, explain and restart from same position. Next time, call the stalling, warning and restart from neutral. This forces the kid to wrestle instead of protecting the lead. Gets rid of the points being awarded costing the match, but allows the other kid the opportunity to win instead of being hugged for 1 minute.

I like this idea a lot, especially putting the kids in neutral after the second call if they are on the mat. I also think fleeing the mat should be called and a point should be awarded if it is obvious the kid is running. Last year in the finals, we lost a match where the kid literally turned his back and ran off the mat several times to protect a 2 pt lead. He did this for the majority of the 3rd period and the ref didn't do a thing, nor could he under the unwritten youth rules.

[sbfraz 8]

JW, I think that is a great way to handle it. Now, let's actually get some written rules:)

[Bluesdad 73]

Not every 9 year old has been wrestling for 3+ years and has MS experience like Blue.  Most of these kids are in their 1st or 2nd year and only practice 2 days a week.  They still struggle w/ locking hands, reaching back, illegal moves, and the anxiety of live wrestling. I'd hate to have some over-zealous referree calling stalling on 6 year olds! 

 

If MS/HS rules are what you prefer, then don't wrestle youth tournaments anymore. 

Yeah your probably right. But our middle school team isn't wrestling any longer this year. So I have no choice but to take him to youth tournaments.

[Cougar05 6]

Are we still talking about stalling at a youth level? I know you want refs to call matches like they do in college or high school but 95% of the kids struggle like MLee says with the very basics. Wanting youth refs to call stalling is like trying to get refs to call holding in pee-wee football like the pros. It's unrealistic and won't happen anytime soon. If your child loses a youth match because of stalling then you have other problems on your hands other than refs.

[sbfraz 8]

If your child loses a youth match because of stalling then you have other problems on your hands other than refs.

That's a little overboard. Stalling is called in wrestling for a reason. It can affect the outcome of a match, even at the highest level.

My 2nd grader plays football and they do call holding. Of course, it's not the same as in the NCAA, but they call it. That way the kids learn good habits from the start.

JW proposed a good way to handle it without doing it like HS and college refs do. Kids need to learn the basics from the beginning. Why do people get so defensive when someone proposes a positive change? We need to define some rules for youth wrestling in the state. Stalling is one that should be addressed.

[sbfraz 8]

Just to add one last note on the subject, we wrestled in Indiana today. Before the kids wrestled, they were all called to one mat where the head ref explained that they were abiding by HS rules without modification. I watched all matches at the intermediate and novice levels and saw stalemate called numerous times, fleeing the mat called a few, and stalling called 4 times. It went very smoothly. The refs explained to the kids what they did wrong and awarded penalty points. No coach, parent or wrestler complained about any of those calls.