900???

[wrestlingmom 9]

900 kids Sunday.....gonna be a LONG day.  I'm all about promoting the sport but we are going to have to come up with a new system.  Maybe the top 6 or 8 in each region advance to state???  Anyone else have any ideas

[whortonj 3]

Be thankful that the sport is continuing to grow.  Use a venue that holds 10 mats and enjoy the day.  Your kids will grow up quickly and the youth wrestling will be over and you will miss watching your kids compete in these type of events.  Enjoy the day, it only happens once a year.  Good luck to all the wrestlers and look forward to moving out there next year to make it 903??? competing next year.

[trithis 34]

It will go a whole lot faster than the HS and MS state tourney's, even with 900 kids.  It's awesome to have such an event for these little ones.  Keep those kids come and continue growing the sport in KY.  I believe there will be 17 refs and 16 matches going on at one time.  What a blast!!! 

 

[Nkawtg 137]

It will go a whole lot faster than the HS and MS state tourney's, even with 900 kids.  It's awesome to have such an event for these little ones.  Keep those kids come and continue growing the sport in KY.  I believe there will be 17 refs and 16 matches going on at one time.  What a blast!!! 

I'm no math whiz, but I think 900 kids equals 450 first round matches.  450 first round matches divided by 16 mats equals 28 matches per mat.  28 matches at 3 minutes per match equals 1 hour 30 minutes.  I'd think that you should increase that by 50% to allow for dead times between matches and between periods.  So my guess is 2 hours and 15 minutes for the first round roughly.  Round 2 would be the same but the successive rounds would be shorter.  The key is the amound of mat space, which I think is pretty good with 16 mats.

[trithis 34]

Sounds good to me, but there are usually some byes mixed in there. 

[old119 1]

if you take only the top 6 or 8 you are leaving alot of really good kids out of the tournament...some of these regions have 10-12 solid kids in alot of weigh classes...so on top of leaving alot of good kids out you are compounding that by still having a long day of wrestling with kids that arent near as competitive...if you deplete the competition, you are going to start losing kids

[Mike Calhoun 49]

I say love it or leave it. If you love your kids and they love the sport, u gotta suck it up and do what you gotta do. I've been to tourneys this year for upwards of 12 hours. this is only our second year but i learned quick that you gotta be dedicated to it and your kids, if you're forcing your kid and they dont enjoy it you shouldnt be there anyway. 900 and 16 mats aint bad. i was at a duel this year with 16 teams and four mats. thats 16 x 15 weight classes = 240, at 1/4 the mat space. so if there were 16 mats that would be the same as 4 x 240 = 960 kids. get over it, do it for the kids, sit back relax, and enjoy the day. :wink:

[CBender 17]

I've weathered plenty of long days at wrestling events, and plenty of other youth travel sports, but I have never been of the opinion that "suck it up and live with the long days" is always the answer.  I think that there's always room to evaluate and improve the experience we're providing for our kids and our families.  And in this case I think the answer to shortening up the day is plain.

Before ever considering whether regionals should "matter" and serve to exclude kids from the experience of participating in state, I would personally love to save my family 2-3 hours at this tournament by killing the face off.  Please, please kill the face off. 

I wish I could have recorded the comments of the frustrated parents and tired siblings in the stands, and played them back for the few folks that want to hear little Jimmy's name called over the PA.  Not to mention all the wrestlers that had close to 90 minutes between matches waiting on the final few mats to conclude and the face off to start and finish.  Please don't forget that plenty of these wrestlers are 5, 6, 7, 8 year olds themselves.  What we adults can grit our teeth and bear is not necessarily a pleasant experience for them at all.

Plenty of CYW venues routinely handle 1000-1200 kids and they finish the afternoon session by 4pm.  Usually around 16 mat surfaces, same as what we routinely have for state.  But they surely do not waste 60-90 minutes of their tournament time per session doing face offs.

Note - I'm not critical this year's tourney in general - while I can find issues to discuss from my experience Sunday, I do think it was the smoothest run of the last 3, which is the sum total of my experience attending past Youth States.  Hats off to the hosts.  Just picking hard at my personal pet peeve.

[wrestlingmom 9]

I have sat countless hours at a gym because I do love this sport.  My son is in  6th grade and has been doing this since preschool.  I do have a problem with it when my 100lb+ child doesn't have enough room to wrestle and slams his head on to the wood floor.  17 ft was all the room they had to wrestle.  We are doing our older wrestlers an injustice by not allowing them the entire or at least half the mat!!!!  His weight class was an awesome example of how great Kentucky wrestling is going to be, but they couldn't shine.  4 or 5 steps each way and they were out of bounds...how is that helping???  We left the tournament early to have him checked out, luckily he is ok.  This is why I have issues with the numbers. 

[grappler-of-old 44]

I have heard some good ideas in between the complaining.

Maybe there should be a forum for ideas for improving the youth state.

It is easy to point out the problems of a tourney.  Most already know the problems. 

The hard part if finding a solultion for the problems. 

I have seen two good ideas for improvement.

1.  Speed up or do away with the face off.

2.  Use 1/2 a mat for kids over 100lbs. 

Sounds like two good ideas to me.  What we need is an e-mail to where ideas can be given to those who run the youth.

If this becomes true then we need to make sure it is an idea you are sending and not just using it as a complaint e-mail source.

GOO out. :-D

[skynyrd7569 1]

This was my first time going to the youth state tournament and found it to be very well ran, I liked the staging for the competitors and they way the table workers called each wrestler to the mat when it was their time to go.  i know for my son the face off was very cool and it will be something he remembers for ever. We were done by 1:00pm and out the door even after pictures on the podium. 

[whortonj 3]

Just curious, I hope to be moving there next year, is there a good reason why they use split mats instead of obtaining more mats to run the tournament?  I have a Tot (6 year old, AAU terminology) that has wrestled in North Carolina, West Virginia, PA, Ohio, South Carolina and Virginia and he has had a full mat everywhere we went.  I could not imagine my 11 year old or even 9 year old wrestling on somewhere between 18 and 20 feet.  Just seems there would be more breaks in action than wrestling.

Just looking for some learning before I get there.  I have over 18 years of time on or around the mat and the split mat thing is usually reserved for rookie events and small gyms.  You guys were in a civic arena, please shoot me some thoughts on why for my own learning of what to expect when I get there.

Thanks

[thorobred 1]

First off, Congratulations to the host, all the coaches, workers, wrestlers, refs & parents for doing such a good job yesterday.

Ok, I have had at least one child in every elementary state tournament since the very first one (two boys). I had three boys in the second & third ones. Last year was the first year that I only had one so I think my experience speaks for itself.

In my opinion & only my opinion which belongs to only me & no group of people, region or team. I think the face off is spectacular. To see the little five year olds go out there & face off is such a bonus to see. A real bonus for their hard work. It may be the only time they make it to the finals. We are are helping make pleasant memories of their state tournament experience. It's the last sacrifice of the season for us as parents to endure for the kids hard work.

The bigger mat surface for the larger kids is a very good idea. It is hard for middle school kids to wrestle on one fourth of a mat. Another solution is to make the elementary state tournament for elementary kids only (I suggest this every year). Fifth grade should be the cut off in my opinion.  My son will be in 7th grade next year but by the current by laws he will be under 13 before 1/1/12 rendering him eligible for competition. He will be in a bracket & weight class by himself more than likely because of his size. It should be for middle school kids who do not qualify for middle school state if the current bylaws stay in effect. My opinion only, I'm not griping.

Once again, Great tournament. It gets better every year. Thank you to everyone who sacrifices for the kids. Remember that they are why we sacrice, for their benefit & their future in the sport.  I will miss the smiles & tears of the little guys when my son is out of youth eligibility. :cry: 8-)

[Ranger123 43]

Very good points thorobred.  I applied my own rule in my house on youth state eligibility.  If you are a middle school state placer you do not compete at the youth state tournament.  The youth process is still a "developmental league" and I feel it should be left to those who are relatively early in learning the sport.  If a kid is having great success at the middle school level (which has become extremely competitive), then I do not feel they should be taking away opportunities from the less experienced kids.  I understand that they are technically eligible and it is mat time, but I also believe there is a need for some time off the mat as well especially at a young age.  And if the need for competition is that great then I am sure there is a better tournament being held somewhere else that will likely provide better competition.

I am torn on the faceoff.  It seems like it takes so long, especially the last one of the day (after being in that arena for 4 solid days).  But as a father who has watched his sons walk out on the mat under the spotlight I have to say it is pretty neat and they love it.

Big guys have to get more mat space.  One of our kids, about a 175, had really no space to wrestle.

[Mike Calhoun 49]

I think that my suck it up comment was taken the wrong way by some (definitely was not aimed at wrestlingmom or anyone else). I dont feel there is anything wrong with suggestions or improvements, but as the sport grows here in KY so will the improvements. I dont like the small mats either, I think it makes it much harder for an escape also. As soon as they're bout to get free they are called out of bounds. Maybe a larger arena? But I'm not sure of the cost of something like this, but to extend the mat size with the same floor space will only make for a longer day. I guess I just get tired of the whiners at alot of these tourneys because we all know they're out there. But i never see the complainers working tables, concessions or gates. Just saying that more people should be part of the solution not the problem. And thanks to all who contribute their time and positive suggestions and opinions. Great sport, great kids, great times.................

[NKYCoach 15]

IMO its not that bad of a day. It last no longer then a average High School tournament with 8 man brackets. I think the more kids the better off we are at this age. The sport needs to continue to grow and the compeition in the state needs to get better. Be thankful we are in and out of there in 10 hours Ohio's Youth Tournament is a 2 or 3 day event and that follows a week after the Middle School State Tournament which is a 2 or 3 day event.

If I could suggest anything at all it would be to increase the tournament by a day or run it again the following week and have state champs per weight and not per bracket.

[Nkawtg 137]

Just curious, I hope to be moving there next year, is there a good reason why they use split mats instead of obtaining more mats to run the tournament?  I have a Tot (6 year old, AAU terminology) that has wrestled in North Carolina, West Virginia, PA, Ohio, South Carolina and Virginia and he has had a full mat everywhere we went.  I could not imagine my 11 year old or even 9 year old wrestling on somewhere between 18 and 20 feet.  Just seems there would be more breaks in action than wrestling.

Thanks

I a newbie to Ky wrestling as well--just finished our first year. They could only fit 4 mats in the civic center. The Frankfort Civic Center was damp, dirty, and had very little floor space. I think they call it "the Dungeon", for that reason. They could improve the tournament immensely by getting a better venue. Anyway, 16 wrestling surfaces is about the max, I think. Many mats were delayed because the coaches were spread out all over. That was a real problem and slowed down the flow greatly. I firmly believe that it would be bad to add more match space. However, wrestling 16 surfaces on 8 full mats as opposed to 4 full mats would be a great improvement.

Many matches were held where wrestlers were not wearing head gear. I was amazed the refs allowed this, but was told that theywant to encourage participation. If this is supposed to be an event to encourage participation then do away with the faceoff. If it's so special that a faceoff means something, than it should be treated as such. If a wrestler isn't in the top 4 at his regional then maybe he shouldn't be at State?

[ukmike22000 0]

I a newbie to Ky wrestling as well--just finished our first year. They could only fit 4 mats in the civic center. The Frankfort Civic Center was damp, dirty, and had very little floor space. I think they call it "the Dungeon", for that reason. They could improve the tournament immensely by getting a better venue. Anyway, 16 wrestling surfaces is about the max, I think. Many mats were delayed because the coaches were spread out all over. That was a real problem and slowed down the flow greatly. I firmly believe that it would be bad to add more match space. However, wrestling 16 surfaces on 8 full mats as opposed to 4 full mats would be a great improvement.

Many matches were held where wrestlers were not wearing head gear. I was amazed the refs allowed this, but was told that theywant to encourage participation. If this is supposed to be an event to encourage participation then do away with the faceoff. If it's so special that a faceoff means something, than it should be treated as such. If a wrestler isn't in the top 4 at his regional then maybe he shouldn't be at State?

Nkawtg135, you will see the member name "stanmms" in the forum section who will be happy to give you the meeting information where all of these decisions are discussed. Just send him a PM. If you would like to take the lead on researching any of your suggestions above (alternate venues, etc.) I'm sure they would be happy to have the help. Understand that just three years ago the youth state tournament was held in a high school gym with less than half the seating capacity and one less mat. Rome was not built in a day, and my opinion is that the youth state tournament has gotten better every year. The great news is that it will continue to improve when folks like yourself are willing to "jump in the boat and row" to help make it better. Please give us an update as to your progress after you attend your first meeting.

[stucklikeglue 1]

Wow some comments really surprise me. I think the youth program should allow everyone to participate in the state tournament. The youth programs are all about growing the sport of wrestling. If we start limiting the kids participation based on ability I am sure that we will turn some of them away from the sport all together. My older son struggled to place at tournaments until he was a 4th grader even though he has wrestled since he was 4. I am sure if the youth state tournaments had been limited to the top 4 in region he wouldn't have qualified until he was a 4th grader. Instead he attended every year & every year he got a little better. He saw his peers up on that podium & he worked harder every year until he finally won a youth state title. This year he placed 4th at the middle school state tournament as a 5th grader. There is plenty of time to advance only the best when they reach middle school & high school. For now lets jut let them enjoy the sport.

As far as making for a long day, wrestling in general is all about long days. Many days we get up when its dark & don't arrive home until its dark. That's just the nature of the sport. My family of 5 (including a 2 year old) sat at the High school state tournament for 3 days, arrived for the early session where my younger son wrestled & then stayed through the 2nd session so that I could work a table ( I know we weren't the only family who did this). We didn't arrive home until after 9:00 & our kids had school the next day. But weekends like that are once a year & it was worth it all to see the smiles on all the kids faces as they went out for the face-offs & stood on that podium.

I think the fact that we have over 900 kids participate is a clear indicator that the sport is growing in KY & don't think we should do anything to hinder that growth.

[GranbyGirl 2]

First off, Congratulations to the host, all the coaches, workers, wrestlers, refs & parents for doing such a good job yesterday.

Ok, I have had at least one child in every elementary state tournament since the very first one (two boys). I had three boys in the second & third ones. Last year was the first year that I only had one so I think my experience speaks for itself.

In my opinion & only my opinion which belongs to only me & no group of people, region or team. I think the face off is spectacular. To see the little five year olds go out there & face off is such a bonus to see. A real bonus for their hard work. It may be the only time they make it to the finals. We are are helping make pleasant memories of their state tournament experience. It's the last sacrifice of the season for us as parents to endure for the kids hard work.

The bigger mat surface for the larger kids is a very good idea. It is hard for middle school kids to wrestle on one fourth of a mat. Another solution is to make the elementary state tournament for elementary kids only (I suggest this every year). Fifth grade should be the cut off in my opinion.  My son will be in 7th grade next year but by the current by laws he will be under 13 before 1/1/12 rendering him eligible for competition. He will be in a bracket & weight class by himself more than likely because of his size. It should be for middle school kids who do not qualify for middle school state if the current bylaws stay in effect. My opinion only, I'm not griping.

Once again, Great tournament. It gets better every year. Thank you to everyone who sacrifices for the kids. Remember that they are why we sacrice, for their benefit & their future in the sport.  I will miss the smiles & tears of the little guys when my son is out of youth eligibility. :cry: 8-)

I agree and pray they don't do away with the Face-Offs. It means ways too much to these kids. The kids are who this whole tournament is about so shouldn't we let them have it if it means that much to them?

[Ranger123 43]

I agree and pray they don't do away with the Face-Offs. It means ways too much to these kids. The kids are who this whole tournament is about so shouldn't we let them have it if it means that much to them?

I'm not suggesting we kill the face-off, as I said, I have loved watching my boys come out under the spotlight, but I do acknowledge that it takes a lot of time. So I think we need to at least find a way to speed up the process. Maybe we need to consider going to 16 man brackets where it makes sense with the weights.

[GranbyGirl 2]

I'm not suggesting we kill the face-off, as I said, I have loved watching my boys come out under the spotlight, but I do acknowledge that it takes a lot of time. So I think we need to at least find a way to speed up the process. Maybe we need to consider going to 16 man brackets where it makes sense with the weights.

I understand what you are saying. It does take a long time to get through all of it, but I'm just not sure about the 16 man brackets. I feel that kids are forced to grow up so quickly these days when it comes to any sport (among many other things) and enjoy knowing that we're allowing more kids to feel special by having the smaller brackets with larger numbers of face-offs and more kids names getting to be call out under the spotlight. It's one day...can't we give them that?

[ukmike22000 0]

Very good points thorobred.  I applied my own rule in my house on youth state eligibility.  If you are a middle school state placer you do not compete at the youth state tournament.  The youth process is still a "developmental league" and I feel it should be left to those who are relatively early in learning the sport.  If a kid is having great success at the middle school level (which has become extremely competitive), then I do not feel they should be taking away opportunities from the less experienced kids.  I understand that they are technically eligible and it is mat time, but I also believe there is a need for some time off the mat as well especially at a young age.  And if the need for competition is that great then I am sure there is a better tournament being held somewhere else that will likely provide better competition.

I am torn on the faceoff.  It seems like it takes so long, especially the last one of the day (after being in that arena for 4 solid days).  But as a father who has watched his sons walk out on the mat under the spotlight I have to say it is pretty neat and they love it.

Big guys have to get more mat space.  One of our kids, about a 175, had really no space to wrestle.

I appreciate your stance Ranger, I'm just a little torn as to whether or not I agree with it. I guess I see the 'developmental league' part of the sport in the weekly tournaments that take place leading up to state, where there are ample opportunities for a kid to achieve success at least once during that season. My son is a 10 yr old 70lb'er, and while I would love to see him standing atop the state podium, even he knows that Blake Roth is the best (or one of---not trying to start an argument with anyone there) 10 yr old 70 lb'er in the state. Keeping Blake, and others like him, out of the tournament does not eliminate what these "older" kids know----which is who is/are the best. My son won regional and CYW city wide this year so he is a decent, but not great, wrestler. I am sure that if he were to win a Roth-less state (assuming we had MS style weight brackets with one champion) that he would know that the medal around his neck does not mean he is truly the "state champ" at his age and weight, but rather just the winner of that day's tournament that is called "state".

So, while it would be great to have a "state champ" in the house----and technically we do since he won two years ago at Fern Creek----I would prefer to have the best wrestlers participate regardless of Middle School experience and success. I'm with the old saying "to be the best you've got to beat the best" and this one day is the opportunity to find out who is the best. Imagine how much more that medal would mean if he caught Blake on an off day (does he even have those?) and won!!!

[Ranger123 43]

I appreciate your stance Ranger, I'm just a little torn as to whether or not I agree with it. I guess I see the 'developmental league' part of the sport in the weekly tournaments that take place leading up to state, where there are ample opportunities for a kid to achieve success at least once during that season. My son is a 10 yr old 70lb'er, and while I would love to see him standing atop the state podium, even he knows that Blake Roth is the best (or one of---not trying to start an argument with anyone there) 10 yr old 70 lb'er in the state. Keeping Blake, and others like him, out of the tournament does not eliminate what these "older" kids know----which is who is/are the best. My son won regional and CYW city wide this year so he is a decent, but not great, wrestler. I am sure that if he were to win a Roth-less state (assuming we had MS style weight brackets with one champion) that he would know that the medal around his neck does not mean he is truly the "state champ" at his age and weight, but rather just the winner of that day's tournament that is called "state".

So, while it would be great to have a "state champ" in the house----and technically we do since he won two years ago at Fern Creek----I would prefer to have the best wrestlers participate regardless of Middle School experience and success. I'm with the old saying "to be the best you've got to beat the best" and this one day is the opportunity to find out who is the best. Imagine how much more that medal would mean if he caught Blake on an off day (does he even have those?) and won!!!

I agree and that is the way I would look at it down the road. But at this point we are far from having a true state championship. As long as we are letting everyone in and just grouping kids together in somewhat random brackets we are NOT truly crowning the best in the state. Last year with the delay in middle school state we had almost all of the best in Frankfort to get some mat time. But nearly all of those kids were not interested in winning a youth state title. They were preparing for what they really wanted and that was middle school. This year we had a number of very good kids there again, including Blake Roth who is definitely one of the best in the state. Nothing against Blake, but I'm not sure how excited he was to win a youth state tournament. I would guess he was happy to win, but not overjoyed. He has his goals set much higher and came very, very close to achieving them this year. So in my mind I don't like the idea of showing up to beat kids like your son whose goal is to win that youth state title.

[Ranger123 43]

I didn't complete my thought...

I think we all realize that youth wrestling around the state is just getting started and is growing pretty rapidly. But while many of our kids in certain areas of the state have ample opportunity to get on the mat (such as CYW) others do not have the same things as accessible. Nor do some of these kids realize who Blake Roth (and the other "middle school wrestlers") is and what it means to compete against him. In my mind the point of this whole event is to promote and celebrate the growth we are experiencing. Soon enough we will move ahead into the more competitive phase, but I don't think we are there yet.