State Tournament

[Guest Yellowjacket]

If we continue to run a 32 man State Tourn., we have to start seeding the thing. We cannot continue to have the best daggone wrestlers meeting in the quarters and semi's. This on going problem needs to be resolved, but the only way is by having our coaches and parents forcing the hand of the KHHSAA and making them do something about this. In my own personal opinion, if we don't fix this problem, we will continue to have piss poor State Tournaments.

[Cougarwrestler 0]

Chill out......and I dont think that is the kind of language that they want to be used on here. Here is the problem do you really want to spend the time to seed 32 guys in 14 weight classes. Probaly not. Even if you seed that top 8 it would take forever.

[Guest Yellowjacket]

Pardon the language, but the State Tourn. loses all it's pizzazz before the finals ever starts. For the most part all of the better wrestlers have already met. You could easily seed the four top kids in each weight class.

[Bulldog103 0]

Which weight classes are you talking about, because it looks like the brackets are pretty good this year compared to years past.

[Just Wrestle 0]

I couldn't agree more! This 32 man bracket has got to stop. I never want to see the #1 wrestler face a #2 or #3 in the quarters. Now if they lose in regionals thats another thing....

I would give anything just to go back to a 16 man bracket! It works great, sometimes the best wrestlers meet in semi's, but thats it.

32 man brackets are horrible.....

[PinToWin 0]

The 32 person brackets are a tad much, however seeding is done the best way it can be done given the current system. You cannot do the seeding based on rankings, which are purely subjective. Secondly, they don't release the draws until after region, which in my opinnion is the correct way to do this. They used to be relased prior to regions being finished and sandbagging was prevelant, a wrestler would loose a match on purpose to avoid facing a tough wrestler at the state tournament. It could be done like football, where the state is divided in half and you always no who you are facing (i.e. which region and district), but that system is worse than the current random draw we have in place for the state tournament. Which makes sure you don't have to face anyone from your region until the fourth round (if my math is correct) and you always face someone who has an opposite seeding of you (i.e. 1 vs. 4 and 2 vs. 3). Basketball also conducts a random draw, and often times the best teams are seeded against each other in the first round. Like anything else, the best wrestler usually wins it all, although having luck helps (the better you are the more good luck you create). Finally, no knock against anyone who finishes second, third, etc.... people typcially only remember the champ, regardless of who finished second or who they beat along the way.

[MagicBone 0]

Pardon the language' date=' but the State Tourn. loses all it's pizzazz before the finals ever starts. For the most part all of the better wrestlers have already met. You could easily seed the four top kids in each weight class.[/quote']

Right on,I agree fully in what ur saying last year was a big example of why they need to carefully seed n who cares who has the time to do it we arent the ones the people running the state tournament is,I mean think back 2 just last year some VERY GOOD matches were in the Semi's between the top wrestlers in the weight classes,and then when the finals came around you had people getting beat badily in making it loook like our state has some fishes in the finals,it could be alot better,back in the 90's they had 10 man I think or somethign like that n u saw the real deals they need to cut the 4th place medalist out of regionals to get 2 state thats wayyy too easy to get 2 state n return to a lower bracket

[exhawk 0]

couldn't agree more, remember chris reed losing to bo hines 2-1 in the semis, then hines tech falls hardky in the finals???

[grappler-of-old 44]

exhawk:

I believe that Cody Walls was considered the second best in that wt. class that year. Hardke defeated Walls by 1 or 2 in the semi's and Reed defeated Walls 2-0 for 3rd.

As for seeding who would you have seed the tournament? If you allowed someone to seed the tourney then people would cry bias.

We also do not have any way of doing it. There is no form of formal record keeping in the state to come up with a solid way of seeding.

Record and such are dismissed because of many teams leaving the state to compete. In the past (80's 90's) Hoptown spent most of their season in Missiouri. Many of the Nky teams spend the majority of thier time in Ohio.

Once again seeding the state tournament is imposible and would take days to do so. If we were to try and seed this thing the state tourney would need to be a week later.

I do agree however that the 32 man bracket is to much. I would like to return to the District, Region, State set up again.

By the way are the pairing out somewhere?

[FalconMatt 0]

You must mean second place; because whoever is the best is going to be Champ! it doesnt matter where he is in the brackets.

[Just Wrestle 0]

Good example this year.....Banks/Wilson in the quarters. That sucks for them. This should at least be a semi match if not finals.

In 16 man bracket, this would never happen.

[littleschool130 0]

Good example this year.....Banks/Wilson in the quarters. That sucks for them. This should at least be a semi match if not finals.

In 16 man bracket' date=' this would never happen.[/quote']

You are already showing the bias that would happen if it were seeded...It need's to be a random draw because of teams that wrestle out of state you don't want your supposed best wrestler losing in the first round to some kid no one has heard of because they wrestled out of state all the time...Remember Jeremy Hilger winning the state championship two years ago, it was against someone not many people knew about at the time and he gave him a hell of a good match

[Just Wrestle 0]

im not talking about seeding the brackets, im talking about going back to a 16 man bracket.

district, region, state. have making it to state mean something again.

[salt140 0]

i think it should be seeded but to save time khsaa should do the rankings and the rankings would go as seeds. If the khsaa did the rankings then they would have all the results they need in the computers. So instead of doing all the work the week before the tournament their first copy of the brackets will be in the coaches hands by sunday via email. And after a seeding meeting monday night everything will be ready two days before state.

[grappler-of-old 44]

justwrestle;

I'm taking some liberties here. Lets assume we return to the old ways.

Western Ky region is old region 1 and 2

Jefferson Co. region is old regions 3 and 4

Northern Ky region is old regions 5 and 6

Lexington region is old regions 7 and 8

This is the way it used to be.

Here is how I see the placements acording ro Rebels rankings.

WKy

1. Banks (Lar)

2. Ervin (Un Co)

3. Caraccilo (Ft C.)

4. Isaacs (And Co)

Jeff

1. Condor (X)

2. Beasley (Cen)

3. Walls (Bul Cen)

4. Radar (Val)

Nky

1. Wilson (CC)

2. Aylor (Ryle)

3. Berger (Fern)

4. Ford (SO)

Lex

1. Courtney (WC)

2. Wincherster (Wayne)

3. Ward (Har)

4. Scott (J-t)

I random drew the picks and sorted them like they use to.

WK drew Nk.

and

Lex drew Jeff.

I then drew the placements. It looked like this.

1. Banks (Lar)

4. Ford (SO)

3. Ward (Har)

2. Beasley (Cen)

2. Winchester (Wayne)

3. Walls (Bullit)

4. Isaacs (And)

1. Wilson (CC)

1. Condor (X)

4. Scott (JC)

3. Berger (Fern)

2. Ervin (UC)

2. Aylor (Ryle)

3. Canoccilo (Ft. C)

4. Radar (Val)

1. Courtney (Wood)

With this draw Aylor and Courtney would meet in the quarters.

It still happens in the 16 man bracket. But I agree that we should return to this format. We have to many kids that probably don't belong there.

[salt140 0]

how can they rankings in this case be subjective if they have all the results. The only way they can be subjective is if there is a circle or dead heat b/w 3 wrestlers. An example is when wrestler A beats wrestler B but loses to Wrestler C and Wrestler C loses to B. So i guess they would have to go through the trio and look for who pinned who and who got majored but if there is a tie again i guess it all comes to rock paper scissors. So this goes to show you no system is perfect look at ncaa football they had split champions not to long ago.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Salt:

They are also subjective if Wrestler A has not wrestled B, C, D, or E.

But has wrestled the top ranked in Ohio, Ind, ect ect ect and defeated some of them.

[Just Wrestle 0]

grapler of old, great example. But that Alyor/Courtney match would only happen in the quarters because he lost his region finals.

Wilson would never be wrestling a Banks or Courtney in the quarters because he won.

I just don't like seeing two #1s wrestling at 9am on Friday. Makes a bad tournament in my opinion.

Plus the 16 man bracket is only a two day tournament, three days is bit much.

[Guest DAWG6]

This discussion happen each year.

Bottom line :arrow: no NO Regional Champion can meet up until the 1/4's, and yes, sometimes some great kids match up earlier than we fans might like. It sound like where just mad because the match-up in the finals isn't who we thought it would be.

Every year some top ranked wrestler loses his region and places 2nd or 3rd. We can't complain about top ranked guys meeting in the second round when this happens. They did that to them selfs. Plus, the ranking are opion's, best guess at best.

Look at 19 last year, (1) Ruschell, (1) Warner, (2) Bryant, (2) Veach. It happens, If Bryant and Veach won there region, it would have been Miller (state runner-up). So how do we figure the finals aren't the best guys FOR MOST Matches.

last year 119 finals should have bee Ruschell and Warner in my opion. But, Warner lost to Bryant :!:

So nothing is ever a lock.

[grappler-of-old 44]

A little foote note here;

The regions were split up because one district believed that when they combined with the other region there 5th place finishers were wrestlers that would place in the state tourney.

Region 7 was the one who believed this. When you look back at the results the truth is that regin 6 and suprisingly region 1 were the benificiaries of this opening of the state tourney.

Both of these regions (6 and 1) had more wins out of their 4th place finishers than any other region. Region 6 has continued this but region 1 has fallen off on this.

Bottom line: Opening the state to a 32 man bracket has only solidified the larger teams (not large school). Campbell, Ryle, Woodford, Larue, Trinity, St.X., are now qualifiying their entire teams almost every year. They have several wreslters at the state tourney that would otherwise not make the tourney.

This does not allow the smaller teams with a handfull of top notch wreslers to have a chance at the team title.

Simon Kenton is a good example, this year. They may have 2 champions (Coopers) and have a good showing from Brown, Vaughn, and possibly McDaniels. But they have no support from many others.

If you take away CC, WC, and some of the other teams extras that they will qualify and who will win a few matches SK is in the hunt, (A huge Darkhorse, but still in the hunt) Without the extras SK might be a top 5 team.

[grandma 0]

I prefer the 16 man bracket; 32 makes it too easy for some guys to get to state.

However, as it's been said before, the best wrestler still comes out on top. It doesn't make for such an exciting finals match, but the best guy always wins.

[UC_Wrestler_112 0]

the 112 bracket is all screwed up all the top ranked guys

are at the bottom of the bracket

[luv2wrestle 0]

If all the good guys are on the opposite bracket that only means that someone had to beat them to put them there. Maybe the guys on the Easy side of the bracket are peaking at the right time and the bottom bracket had better watch out!!!!!

[UC_Wrestler_112 0]

the 112 bracket is all screwed up all the top ranked guys are at the bottom of the bracket

[Ranger123 43]

UC112 - the rankings aren't perfect and as mentioned maybe some of the guys on the other side are peaking at the right time. I know that Johnson had a great regional tournment beating Carmen and Bradbury. Plus Lewis coming in as a #2 and Zarth #3 throws the bracket a little. But the Montgomery Co. kid was hot on the right night.