Lobby for College Wrestling

[bocowrestling 14]

I recently read that Lindsey Wilson was starting a wrestling program.  Members of this board should write to the athletic directors of the other schools in Kentucky urging them to start college wrestling programs.  It would be nice if Kentucky would have at least one public university that has wrestling. 

[ubtappin 1]

I recently read that Lindsey Wilson was starting a wrestling program.  Members of this board should write to the athletic directors of the other schools in Kentucky urging them to start college wrestling programs.  It would be nice if Kentucky would have at least one public university that has wrestling. 

I wrote to Mitch Barnhart about 4 years ago.  He replied and basically said it's not gonna happen while UK is in the SEC.

[oldwrestler81 6]

Blame Title IX  :-( :-( :-(

[danmoody 1]

I have sent proposals to Georgetown College, Pikeville College, and Union College.  These are basically the same proposals that I used while interviewing for the job at Lindsey Wilson.  While I was obviously not hired for that position, the athletic director there (and my athletic director here) stated that the proposals were well researched and realistic.  What a lot of people don't take into account when arguing for college wrestling is the money that goes into starting a program; general interest is not enough to create interest in a school for funding another varsity team.  Increased student enrollment, retention of those numbers, and consisteny in production, graduation, and recruiting are all factors that also weigh heavily.  While all of the schools I mentioned above are NAIA, it seems that NAIA schools are the most likely to add sports that create less revenue due to their regulations and implementations of Title IX.  I really do hope that more colleges in KY will add wrestling, as this would provide more opportunities for KY high school wrestlers as well as impact KY wrestling in the future when those colleges would produce graduates that would return and contribute at the high school and youth levels.

Petitions and letters are great, but my basic point here is the need to understand and include the numbers that these schools need to see in order to consider adding wrestling as a varsity sport.  While it is expensive to add any athletic team, the proof that the expense is well founded and actually an investment, rather than an empty expense, is a huge stepping stone to having any college or university seriously consider the interest that so many of us have in seeing college wrestling grow in our area.

[takedownartist 6]

Thats a good point, it does come down to money in the end. Let me talk about club wrestling for a second. You all can hate and say its just club but its not. Some schools I remember like Grand Valley State and in Michigan and Mott where we had regions had two teams. A lot of club teams have coaches, wrestling rooms, buses, and fund raising and compete in D2 tournaments and NAIA etc,  You cant expect to just start a wrestling team and have the athletic director give you a hand.

If someone was serious about wrestling at UK, they way to go is through the back door, its already open. University of Kentucky wrestling club. The paper work is already done for the club it just needs to be renewed. Get a team together, find a coach, have fund raising for equipment, there are already tournaments to go to, you can probably work something out with UK to use their endless parking lot of cargo vans or small buses, and as far as practice, good question? But after a few years as a club and success you never know. So I a WAY, I don't see the WILL.

[takedownartist 6]

I for got to add my whole point, lol, schools like Grand Valley State and USI, University of Southern Indiana which started off as club teams for a number of years are now part of the main athletic program in their respected divisions.

[D1 Fan 9]

I have long argued that the way to fix the Title IX issue is to recognize cheerleading as a sport.  While I am not a fan of cheerleading personally, I have to say that those individuals practice, attend competitions, perform very athletic stunts, and must be in very good physical condition.  I say... add cheerleading as a sport... all mens sports benefit and Title IX becomes a non-issue!

[takedownartist 6]

D 1 fan, did you read what I wrote at all????? When someone gives you hand up, you take it, you don't look for another way up. The club is already in place and paper work done and tournaments to go to, just need some money and wrestlers and your set.

[takedownartist 6]

In the end it comes down to money, the SEC use to have some great teams and UK was ranked in the top ten or better with schools like Iowa and Oklahoma. Two current active coaches wrestled on that team If you ever think you are going to succeed in getting wrestling started at a D1 SEC school and you discuss Title nine, you will get no where. They wont even listen to you, they will laugh. Start a club, get your foot in the door, be smart about it and make contacts

[Mortal 0]

What we need is a good letter with alot of Signatures

[D1 Fan 9]

D 1 fan, did you read what I wrote at all????? When someone gives you hand up, you take it, you don't look for another way up. The club is already in place and paper work done and tournaments to go to, just need some money and wrestlers and your set.

Yes... I did read what you wrote and totally agree with you... however... the Title IX issue has long been argued as a reason why wrestling suffers.  Just offering another option... not discounting your comments.  Relax... I'm on your side  :-)

[Dutch1873 0]

I have long argued that the way to fix the Title IX issue is to recognize cheerleading as a sport.   While I am not a fan of cheerleading personally, I have to say that those individuals practice, attend competitions, perform very athletic stunts, and must be in very good physical condition.  I say... add cheerleading as a sport... all mens sports benefit and Title IX becomes a non-issue!

The problem with this argument is getting the cheerleaders to join the team ranks. Right now they compete as teams but are not regulated as an NCAA team. So they don't have to abide by the 20 hour a week rule (ie no more than 20 hour spent at practice) or any sort of acedemic accountability. Until you get the cheerleaders on board, you won't get the AD's on board so it's a mute point unfortunately. I would say continue to push all the colleges universities in the state to add wrestling, but in reality you will most likely see the NAIA schools add it LONG before the D1 schools. As an afterthought has anyone worked with the Division 2 schools in Kentucky? I'm talking about NKU, KY Wesleyan and Kentucky St. I think you would get a not more traction at the D2 level before D1. Keep up the great work

[CGD78 0]

I'm also amazed at the lack wrestling at area Div II colleges. Bellarmine is another example. (Look at what they're doing in basketball.) I know Bellarmine is very receptive to starting new minor type sports. They started Lacrosse not too long ago and are very competitive. I also know of an individual that got a swim club team started there a couple years ago. I hear the school is trying hard to rebalance the male to female student ratio (need more males). Wrestling would be a good fit there. You could probably start a competitive team with just the Trinity and St X grads.  :-)

[takedownartist 6]

Things that are not going to work that you should stop talking about and get out of your head!!!!

1. Title Nine - it will never get overturned as long as we are alive

2. Letters with Signatures- pretty much assume them useless

3. The whole cheerleading thing, not so strong of an argument

Things that will and HAVE worked in the past, look to the past to what has worked for others and use that template

1. CLUB WRESTLING

2. Fundraising

3. Being self sufficient for a while

4. Make Contacts

Give it a handful of years and maybe, just maybe you can talk about it, until then most ideas so far are old fashioned just not cuttn it, think outside the box and look at other programs to see what has worked, you mines well forget how to say Title Nine, it wont help you

[dinubus 2]

I have sent proposals to Georgetown College, Pikeville College, and Union College.  These are basically the same proposals that I used while interviewing for the job at Lindsey Wilson.  While I was obviously not hired for that position, the athletic director there (and my athletic director here) stated that the proposals were well researched and realistic.  What a lot of people don't take into account when arguing for college wrestling is the money that goes into starting a program; general interest is not enough to create interest in a school for funding another varsity team.  Increased student enrollment, retention of those numbers, and consisteny in production, graduation, and recruiting are all factors that also weigh heavily.  While all of the schools I mentioned above are NAIA, it seems that NAIA schools are the most likely to add sports that create less revenue due to their regulations and implementations of Title IX.  I really do hope that more colleges in KY will add wrestling, as this would provide more opportunities for KY high school wrestlers as well as impact KY wrestling in the future when those colleges would produce graduates that would return and contribute at the high school and youth levels.

Petitions and letters are great, but my basic point here is the need to understand and include the numbers that these schools need to see in order to consider adding wrestling as a varsity sport.  While it is expensive to add any athletic team, the proof that the expense is well founded and actually an investment, rather than an empty expense, is a huge stepping stone to having any college or university seriously consider the interest that so many of us have in seeing college wrestling grow in our area.

Essentially it is the money.  There are many routes for wrestling with title IX that most larger colleges in other states utilize.  Wrestling just is not seen as a big money maker or grower of a university.  Although most prior wrestlers and their immediate families enjoy watching wrestling and would love to go to watch some University matches, we do not make up a large portion of the overall population.  I, for one, am not sure what exactly to do about this except keep growing the sport from the bottom up.  Once we have a very large interest in the sport, spectator interest will have also grown which means money to the Universities.

[newfan13 4]

just a comment on the title IX.  Even if cheerleading were put in as a sport it would probably not create an opening for a male sport most D1 cheer squads are coed so it would be a tradeoff.  When I was at alabama soccer was a club sport and very quickly made it up the ladder.  Maybe national participation is the issue.????

[takedownartist 6]

Dinibus, you just don't seen to be catching on here. You are right about one thing and one thing only, it is about money. Conferences that have wrestling like Big 10 Big 12 and others all have to abide by Title Nine, NOT ONE D1 SEC school has wrestling anymore. If we take your advice and wait for participation to increase at this rate, we not only will not go anywhere with college wrestling at say UK, it would take a lifetime to achieve. Come on guys you have to be smarter than this, these ideas your just shooting your selves in the foot on this one 

[dinubus 2]

wow  :roll:

It wasn't advise, it was that I could think of as an option.  If you have better solutions - please speak up (or have you already shot your foot off?)

However:

1.  Title IX is no longer blocking the male sports, take a deeper look into the law and lawsuits pertinant too it.  So, you can drop that one.

2.  Big schools look at the monitary solutions, outside of a large sum of money being given to a SEC college to start up a program by some annonymous person, it isn't going to happen until wrestling becomes a money maker spectator wise or they lose tuition because of the number of students attending other universities so they are able to wrestle.

I think you need to catch that clue buddy.

[takedownartist 6]

Haha ok dinibus, read what everyone has written, most options, good and bad, have pretty much been said already but good luck with your idea, let me know how that goes alright.

[BluegrassRiver 0]

To read more about how Title IX is just a convenient and lousy excuse for university officials to say no go to www.usawrestling.org forum section.  Title IX prohibits any sex discrimination.  In Kentucky, university leaders are discriminating against males.  Anyway, wrestling can be a coed sport if you declare it so.  If she wins the wrestle off she gets the position.  Go read more about it...