Why is it so difficult to get tournament results?

[grappler-of-old 44]

I find it appauling that you can not find the results to tournaments. Almost every tournament that you go to today is done on the computer. How difficult is it for the tournament director (coach of the home school) to send this information to the KWCA or to someone who will send the information out?

Many times we have to rely on second hand information who sometimes don't have the information correct or does not have all the information.

How wonderful would it be to be able to download the entire tournament onto your computer. Coaches and fans could then look this over anytime they wanted. It would also make Ranger's and Mr. Coomes (the one who makes the KWCA rankings) life so much easier.

Just me ranting. I would like to see the results of the 5-star, TCI, Big East, WCI, Bourbon Bash, ect. ect. and not just the finals who placed who defeated who in the simi's.

[Allamerican152 0]

i agree with grappler it would be nice to view entire tournament results with ease.

[eville dad 17]

Grappler,

I agree to a point. We have discussed this on here before about the lack of results published and the lack of coverage by local media.

It seems like its up to the Coaches to get this accomplished. I guess that would be the KWCA? If they want it done they seem like the logical group to make it happen. I guess the other alternative would be for the KWCA to work with a site like this one to help.

With the effort being put forth to develop and grow the sport in the state I think the KWCA would be smart to put more focus on gaining exposure with the public. Publishing results, rankings, schedules and other important information about the sport to all the major newspapers and websites and improving their website to be more user friendly for coaches to publish their results. The ranks in the middle schools continue to grow and I think the High School numbers are growing as a result of the middle school effort.

I live in Louisville so all I really see regarding media coverage is the Courier Journal, They have done a better job this year than in the past but there is still alot being missed. Some of the information they report when writing about upcoming tournaments has been outdated or inaccurate but I think its a result of the information they have been provided, such as the preseason rankings. They published today, the latest rankings from the KWCA, I think these are the 1/10 rankings and I dont think they had published any rankings since the preseason rankings. I thnk thats about 6 weeks of no updated rankings, basically half the season. Theres a lot of opportunities for more rankings to have been published. This would help the public be more aware of high school wrestling. The other side of the lack of information issue is the kids are more difficult to track by fans and college coaches. I know most recruiting is done during the off season, but I also know that college coaches just like fans read everything they see about wrestling. Remember the old saying "Out of sight out of mind"? The more times they see KY wrestling information the better for the kids and the sport.

[grappler-of-old 44]

I know up here in Nky the Ky coverage gets overshadowed by Ohio coverage. I don't even think the Conner tournament was posted in the local papers.

I do however know that almost every dual meet in Ohio is published in the papers. I know that the papers up here will not publish results when its small teams against large teams. Example: Ryle Vs Holmes or Campbell Vs Newport. They do not want to print restults that are mostly forfeits. Both Newport and Holmes only have about 5-7 kids on the varsity teams.

As for getting the results. I was referring to any web site. As you mentionsed the KWCA is the logical answer to this.

My point is that each tournament director could easily send this info to Mr. Coomes at KWCA. Why do the coaches fail to do this?

[Guest DAWG6]

Our area coverage is poor at best.

The news enterprise started with a great article about the teams preseason report, since then we are lucky to get the team scores.

I don't even think one photo has been in the paper about a wrestler.

I haven't seen any feature's about the top ranked wrestlers or teams.

It is the coaches’ responsibility to submit the data or his representative. Some do, other don't.

The KWCA site is poorly represented.

This is NOT COACH COOMES fault.

NO one is sending him the results to post.

[eville dad 17]

I agree the site would be a great place to publish the results. They could devise the site so all member coaches are assigned a password so they could post the results themselves. Seems like that would take alot of the work off of one man and spread it out among the coaches.

[charger 105]

Grappler: You have many good ideas and should voice your opinion to the KWCA or someone like that

[HHSDad 0]

I think a big problem is there is no one place to submit results for wrestling. For a tournament, you'd also have to decide what results you want to publish. Finals results? Place winners? All matches? Etc.

It would certainly be nice to be able to get all the tournament mgrs to send their results to one place.

[FalconMatt 0]

If only we could get results like that posted on the high school results page--------2006 Western Brown - Hammer & Anvil Score---given just about everything but the ref names, go BODYLOCK

[Guest DAWG6]

If only we could get results like that posted on the high school results page--------2006 Western Brown - Hammer & Anvil Score---given just about everything but the ref names' date=' go [u']BODYLOCK

That's because Ohio media respect and support wrestling.

The courier journal had an article reference trininty winning the dragon.

Nothing from the news enterprize reference the North Hardin Tournament or Middle school regions held in Larue :cry:

[HCWolverines06 0]

DAWG6,

Being a member of the Hardin County Wolverines, I know some of the guys at The News-Enterprise and I appreciate the coverage they give us. Many papers couldn't care less about semi-pro football.

With that said, I think guys like Kendrick Johnson (the Wolverines' president, founder and coach) and assistant coach B.J. Bell (media/public relations) understand what you have to do to get it in the paper.

My question is, did anybody from the North Hardin or LaRue County e-mail the results to the paper? Fax? Call them in? Drop them off on the way home? Did anybody take it upon themselves to let the paper know who was coming to these tournaments or what the schedule of events was? If you don't do any of that, blame yourself, not the paper. They didn't send a writer to ANY of the high school basketball games that appeared on page 4, yet there was like a 750-word writeup on all of those games.

The News-Enterprise does a better job than most papers at getting in ALL sports in there (although I need to convince my niece's swim coach to drop off a copy of their results once in a @#$% while).

You can click for past wrestling results that have appeared in the News-Enterprise (change the .txt to .prt at the end of the specific links so you don't have to register: http://www.thenewsenterprise.com/shared-content/search/index.php?search=go&o=0&q=prep+wrestling&d1=10-30-2005&d2=01-22-2006&s=recent&r=Subject%2CAuthor%2CContent&l=100

As far as one place to get results, that's a great idea. The track and cross country coaches have figured that out with their web site, www.KTCCCA.org

[Guest DAWG6]

HCWolverines06,

I totally agree with you.

The results were sent in, to late to get posted today.

The sport's editor knew about the event, so we will see if their any photo's.

Yes, some of the coaches are lagging on submitting results.

The sports editor has all the school schedules, yet how many photo's have you seen with wrestlers :?:

John, North, Central and LaRue have all hosted tournments and NOT ONE photo :!:

Hardin County has some of the top ranked kids in the state and they battle every Wednesday night @ 6:00,

How many features have been in the paper reference wrestling :?:

A couple sentences about John Hardins 125 not being ranked high enough, the North Kid that messed up his knee again.

I have only seen wrestling photo's twice, both in the same paper of a North Dual on the front side and a smaller photo on the inside.

A sports editor says that there is No interested in wrestling so they cover what people want to read :roll:

I have written and called the paper, the sports editors, now have taken it personnal.

The news paper editor says yes, they have room to improve and include all the smaller sports programs, swimming, ect. but I haven't seen a change.

Please tell your friends at the paper, people do care about wrestling and want more than the box score.

Middle school state wrestling championships is at Central Hardin in a week, see what coverage they get?

I'm bitter because I tried to seek change the right way and now we get even less coverage :!:

[Guest DAWG6]

HCWolverines06,

How is it that the Courier Journal (Louisville has the results) but our local paper doesn't :?:

Yesterday at North Hardin H.S.

Team scores – Seneca 219 ½, North Hardin 191, Anderson County 171 ½, Oldham County 171 ½, John Hardin 125, Central Hardin 118, Fort Knox 79 ½, Fairdale 60 ½, Moore 58, Trinity 56, Nelson County 50, LaRue County 48, Covington Holmes 32, Danville 25, North Hardin 'B' 14, Iroquois 4.

[HCWolverines06 0]

I don't think the Courier-Journal was at the North Hardin Invitational (they were at South Oldham's), so my guess is somebody called/faxed/e-mailed them the results early enough to get them in the paper.

I doubt anybody called or faxed or e-mailed Chuck or Nathaniel or Adam at the paper last night. Whenever we play games on Saturday nights, we have to get the results to them by 11 p.m. to make Sunday's edition.

I guess no one got The News-Enterprise the results in time, but yet they somehow remembered to get them to The Courier-Journal.

[Guest DAWG6]

The North coach said the results will be in tomorrow's paper.

Seneca is from louisville and won the tournament so who knows :roll:

It would just be nice to see some of the local coverage improve.

[HCWolverines06 0]

DAWG6,

Do "people" really care about wrestling, or is it more the competitors/coaches and immediate family and friends?

When we first started out they covered us to see what it was like, and then we didn't have much fans, they wouldn't show up or do anything more on us until there were bigger crowds.

Thats the thing about wrestling, swimming, tennis, track and cross country. The fan support just isn't there. Girls basketball games in our area draw 1,000-2,000 fans per game (maybe more when Central and E'town play), but I don't think there has EVER been that many paying fans for any wrestling event in this area. Thus, until wrestling's popularity grows (meaning more fans at matches and tournaments to prove this) or teams other than LaRue County get extremely good (North Hardin is doing good work catching up, but Central, John and Knox have a LONG, LONG way to go) the wrestling coverage isn't going to change.

As far as changing the guys' minds at the paper, that will take some work. If I were them, I would be pissed if I saw that someone called the results into my rival 45 miles up the road but didn't call/e-mail/fax them into me). Coaches should always turn in results from tournaments/matches the day of (NOT THE DAY AFTER). You also need to notify them if a match has been scheduled or changed. That's not rocket science, that's common courtesy.

[grappler-of-old 44]

HCWolverinees:

This is a "Chicken or the egg" syndrome. The newspaper won't cover wrestling events until they draw more fans, wrestling events can't get more fans without newspaper coverage.

A basketball game lasts about 2 hours. A wrestling tournament lasts about 12 hours or more. There may not be 1,000 fans in a gym for all 12 hours of the event, but my guess is that at many of these events they come close to this over the day. Coaches have trouble getting those results to papers that night because they usually don't leave the gym until 10-12 that night.

With all this said. I still believe that newspapers can still spare a few lines on Wednesdays and Sundays for wrestling information. I'm not sure about your local paper, but when they can find open lines for local bowling league scores, I’m sure they can find lines for wrestling results.

If the local coaches have not sent their schedules to the paper then they have failed, but if they have then the paper has failed. How can your local teams get a fan base if they are not notified of when the events occur? I'll bet that every football, basketball, and baseball game is advertised in the paper. Why can't the smaller sports get the same courtesy?

[HCWolverines06 0]

grappler-of-old,

Our local paper (The News-Enterprise in Elizabethtown) prints results from Wednesday's matches on page 2 every Thursday. They usually even throw a photo of mat on the front page and let readers know where to find the results (and occasionally list who won on the front). Everyday on page 2, there is a list of that day's events and the next day's events, letting people know when and where the next wrestling matches are. The results also appear online for free the next day (paper copy costs 50 cents). The local public access tv station even broadcast a match LIVE earlier this season (although they did not make enough advertising money to support it).

And unlike basketball, every wrestler is listed as long as they competed (when was the last time you saw a basketball story/boxscore mention the first and last name of every player?).

Sadly, some coaches do not take advantage of this (turn in the results late or not at all), so its hard to argue that you deserve MORE coverage when you can't/don't accept the coverage they offer to give you.

I know from experience that If I forgot/didn't call after a game, they would be hesitant to ever print us again (bottom line, do not, under any circumstance, blow them off. Especially on Saturdays. Since Sunday is the most-read edition for most newspapers, that's the day you especially want your results in there! So whhy not report them?).

As far as needing the newspaper's coverage to boost fans, that's not entirely true. The newspaper usually previewed my semi-pro football team's games as well as the local minor league basketball team's games, but the fans still didn't show. The UK, Louisville and Western Kentucky women's teams are all very good this season and receive a good amount of newspaper/radio/internet and tv news coverage, but fans aren't exactly jumping out of the woodwork to watch them play (thus they don't receive near the amount of coverage as the men's teams do).

In order to get more coverage, you MUST PROVE you deserve it. Give them reasons why. Give them a story that will win them awards and non-wrestling fans will read if they just take the time to write it.

Just telling them your coverage sucks and you need to do more" is far from a good reason.

[grappler-of-old 44]

Wolverine;

If this is true then I applaude your local paper, this is much more than the local papeer gives Nky wrestling.

Nky on average has many of the top teams in the state and on average have one of the toughest regions in state. However the events and results of thier success are limited to the NKAC tournament, possibly the Regional tourney, and the state tourney.

As for you Hardin Co. people. If this is the type of coverage you are recieving then you are one of the lukcy ones.

[eville dad 17]

DAWG6' date='

Do "people" really care about wrestling, or is it more the competitors/coaches and immediate family and friends?

When we first started out they covered us to see what it was like, and then we didn't have much fans, they wouldn't show up or do anything more on us until there were bigger crowds.

Thats the thing about wrestling, swimming, tennis, track and cross country. The fan support just isn't there. Girls basketball games in our area draw 1,000-2,000 fans per game (maybe more when Central and E'town play), but I don't think there has EVER been that many paying fans for any wrestling event in this area. Thus, until wrestling's popularity grows (meaning more fans at matches and tournaments to prove this) or teams other than LaRue County get extremely good (North Hardin is doing good work catching up, but Central, John and Knox have a LONG, LONG way to go) the wrestling coverage isn't going to change.

As far as changing the guys' minds at the paper, that will take some work. If I were them, I would be pissed if I saw that someone called the results into my rival 45 miles up the road but didn't call/e-mail/fax them into me). Coaches should always turn in results from tournaments/matches the day of (NOT THE DAY AFTER). You also need to notify them if a match has been scheduled or changed. That's not rocket science, that's common courtesy.[/quote']

Wow! I thought part of the job of my newspaper was to report news to its subscribers. I could care less about attending most major league events but I still read about them each morning and expect my newspaper to keep on reporting it. I think the subscribers expect their papers to report on high school competition in their community, regardless of how many people go through the admission gate. Whether they have friends or relation involved there is a level of interest within the community.

Overall I think the CJ does a good job, they send a reporter out to the larger tournaments in the area and interview coaches and wrestlers, thats good coverage. They report the dual scores and the rankings when they receive them. But thats where the problem lies, most times information is not reported. The coaches could stand to improve their communication efforts with the media and on their website.

[HCWolverines06 0]

Wow! I thought part of the job of my newspaper was to report news to its subscribers. I could care less about attending most major league events but I still read about them each morning and expect my newspaper to keep on reporting it. I think the subscribers expect their papers to report on high school competition in their community' date=' regardless of how many people go through the admission gate. Whether they have friends or relation involved there is a level of interest within the community.

Overall I think the CJ does a good job, they send a reporter out to the larger tournaments in the area and interview coaches and wrestlers, thats good coverage. They report the dual scores and the rankings when they receive them. But thats where the problem lies, most times information is not reported. The coaches could stand to improve their communication efforts with the media and on their website.[/quote']

Yes and no. Take Louisville for example. The Courier-Journal covers the University of Louisville very hard (often sending multiple writers, columnists and photographers with the Cardinals whenever, whoeever and where ever they play). Spalding and Bellarmine are also in the Courier-Journal's back yard, but they will never get the amount of coverage that U of L does. Those schools rarely draw more than 2,000 fans, but Louisville can sell like 2,000 $20 tickets in like an hour. Spalding and Bellarmine will still be covered, but not to the extent that Louisville is.

Wrestling in this state is like what Bellarmine and Spalding are to Louisville. Basketball (high school and the nearby college, whether Evansville, Louisville, UK or Cincinnati) will always dominate the coverage. The other winter sports (wrestling, swimming and indoor track) should be mentioned, but NO WHERE EVEN CLOSE to the extent that basketball does.

Unfortunately for those who participate in "minor sports" such as wrestling, swimming, track, tennis, cross country, golf and volleyball, newspapers, TV stations, radio stations and web sites, the media doesn't have to adhere to Title IX. They don't have to give all sports or all genders equal coverage.

Fan support is the No. 1 judge of talent of where a newspaper should invest its time. Football and basketball have tons of fan support, thus those two sports get a ton of coverage.

I know its different in states like Iowa and Ohio, but not only is the wrestling in those states far better than Kentucky, the level of interest is far greater than it is in Kentucky.

Wrestling programs in Kentucky should take what their local paper gives them. If you can't even call/fax/e-mail/drop off the results of a match/tournament on the same day it happened, what reason could the newspaper possibly have for adding to their coverage ... if you do not cooperate with them, they WILL NOT cooperate with you.

[Guest DAWG6]

[HCWolverines06 0]

DAWG6,

1) There was a photo of a LaRue wrestler a few weeks back. It was called "Carmen Chameleon" and it ran on the back page in color.

2) Photographers usually take Wednesdays off, since they usually shoot Friday nights for basketball, Saturday, Sunday and Monday for news and basketball on Tuesday and Thursday. You gotta remember that they only have two photographers for the WHOLE newspaper, yet they have three sports writers, five news writers and two features writers. Photographers are usually overworked and need some time off. Wednesday night is usually it.

3) Just because you are interviewed doesn't mean a story will come from it or ANY of your quotes will even be used.

4) You might want more coverage, but you are not going to get it unless coaches cooperate. None of the five schools the News-Enterprise covers decided to call/e-mail/fax/drop-off their results in a timely fashion on Saturday, but yet the results somehow were given to its RIVAL? I don't get it. How does that happen? Like I said earlier, if you don't at least give them the minimum (NO EXCUSE for not getting them results, they SHOULD NOT HAVE TO GIVE YOU MORE (photo, column, feature on wrestler/coach/team).

[HCWolverines06 0]

DAWG6,

My guess is you are a bit miffed that they didn't cover the North Hardin Invitational.

Let's see:

- Chuck got an award in Lexington Friday night and covered the UK game there Saturday afternoon, so he wasn't available.

- Adam covered the Fort Knox-Central Hardin basketball doubleheader on Friday, so in addition to those two stories, he also had the COnnecticut-Louisville basketball game on Saturday night. So he wasn't available.

- That leaves Nate, who stayed behind in the office to produce pages, read stories, crop/edit photos and get the results of events they didn't cover (although none of the wrestling folks took advantage of that, UNLIKE their basketball counterparts).

The photographer (usually only one works on a Saturday) was at the funeral of the JH kid that died of cancer, I believe.

So what do you expect them to do?

The paper didn't cover the Wolverines' early afternoon signing meeting, or the Central Hardin girls' basketball game against top-10 Christian Academy-Louisville.

Wrestling coaches should realize that if you schedule a match/tournament on the same day that BOTH Louisville and Kentucky play at home, it is going to be real difficult for you to get any type of coverage. Louisville and Kentucky are their cash cows, thus that's where they'll be.

[grappler-of-old 44]

My only guess to how your rival got the info was that they except results later then you guys do. 11:00 P.M. is early for many of the larger tournaments to get their info in by. Like I said it is not unusual for tournaments to finish close to that time. I know in Nky they will except scores at any time, you may have to leave it on a recorder but they will except them, and many times you can still get a person at 2 A.M.

Not a rip on your paper just an observation. Like I siad if you are posting all the results given to you, I think you are doing a decent job.